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Thread: Nerf rogues

  1. #1
    Plane Walker fripples's Avatar
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    Default Nerf rogues

    So.... What happened to those rogue nerfs?

    1. Spikeatour is still broken.
    2. MM is still OP. MMs can purge, silence, put out lots of burst dmg, and have survivability CDs. No, just no.
    3. Tacticians. Top AoE dmg, can heal, AND has 33k health. Lol, really?
    4. NB/RS. I haven't seen too many of these guys around since valor fix so I'll leave this for others to comment on.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by fripples View Post
    So.... What happened to those rogue nerfs?

    1. Spikeatour is still broken.
    Not sure what spec that is. I usually just run 51 sab (I think Rapid setup and cloud maker are both must haves). In any case, I have never been able to get those massive crits others do. I had a sab crit me with spike charge for 6k for 3 tics (18k total damage and I was dead in 3 seconds). I was like WTF is he doing? (this was before the valor buff). I know 61 Ranger/15 Sab used to be seriously OP but was fixed long ago (before I came back to the game, I've just heard stories). I would be interested in hearing from Brutal on this, though. Maybe he knows what those sabs are doing to hit so damned hard. I'd certainly like to know so I can be OP too. They must not be going very high in sab because I have tried every possible variation of 51 sab and nothing hits all that hard. At any rate, sab is very fun to play but I must be doing it wrong as far as specs. Either that or Brutal has hax.


    2. MM is still OP. MMs can purge, silence, put out lots of burst dmg, and have survivability CDs. No, just no.
    MM can purge, yes (just became much more useful now that healers are god mode). MM can also silence (but it is an interrupt silence, which means you have to get lucky and/or time it just perfectly. It is not just a spam silence like is commonly believed). And, yes, they put out good burst damage. So I agree on all that. But I disagree about survivability CD's. If you consider running for the hills a CD, then yeah. Otherwise, there is no survival at all unless you mix it with RS, which is dumb and gimps your damage.

    3. Tacticians. Top AoE dmg, can heal, AND has 33k health. Lol, really?
    4. NB/RS. I haven't seen too many of these guys around since valor fix so I'll leave this for others to comment on.
    Yeah, tacts are the best AoE right now. No argument there. However, if you're going to spec into tact for AoE, you aren't going to be healing. You pretty much either have to pick one or the other. You either spec for torrents, healing or rays. Sure, you can go 61 tact and get all three but your damage (and healing) will be *seriously* gimped because your'e missing out on the hybridization damage bonuses you get with other souls. You can't have it all, even with 61 tact. I just run 40ish tact (thanks Nuku for giving me your OP heal spec which most rogues still haven't seemed to figure out yet). My torrent spec is my own and I think it hits the hardest that is possible (though I am sure it's no secret, it's not exactly hard to figure out what works).

    NB/RS is ho hum now. The Twilight Force snare is still OP, but that's it. The damage sucks tbh. If you're going to melee as a rogue, you better be assassin or you're doing it wrong (at least right now with the valor thing). And, yes, I've tried 61NB -- it sucks imo. It's playable I guess, but far from optimal. Sin is just better right now.

    Bladedancer is bladedancer -- a garbage soul. Always has been, at least for PvP. Dakotta seems to like it but I never see him run it without pocket heals (it has no survival at all really). I tried 61 BD in a few PUG WF's and was dead in 3 seconds. I said screw it and deleted the spec. One problem with BD is it is way too CD dependent. All the good attacks are on CD's. So once you use them you are pretty much useless for the next 2 minutes. Sure you can do insane damage for those 15 seconds (especially if you pop all the CD's together), but meh. Not my thing.

    So that's my state of the rogue address. God bless Rift and god bless Fripplez.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    1. Sucks for pvp.
    2. Yes, good run down of things a MM is suppose to do.
    3. Can't do all at once, and focusing on either isn't special.
    4. Because right now it feels like full DPS or bust, though I still see some with their NB/RS specs. I made a sin/rs because it was silly how hard it was to kill me. I didn't do anything insane to other though, just hurt moderately.
    Last edited by Violacea; 02-20-2013 at 01:34 AM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  4. #4
    Ascendant bitnine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fripples View Post
    1. Spikeatour is still broken.
    What the devil are you even talking about? I challenge you to find a parse or screenshot an ability breakdown of anyone currently using this spec in PvP. I left my parser on whilst PvPing the other night and saw one hit from Spike Charge all night, from a straight sab. And that was:

    Code:
    TIME        ATTACKTYPE    DAMAGE  CRITICAL
    9:15:18 PM  Spike Charge  1020     False
    9:15:16 PM  Spike Charge  1020     False
    9:15:14 PM  Spike Charge  1020     False
    9:15:12 PM  Spike Charge  1020     False
    9:15:10 PM  Spike Charge  1020     False
    9:15:08 PM  Spike Charge  1020     False
    nerf plz
    Last edited by bitnine; 02-20-2013 at 06:03 AM.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser Stryfe19's Avatar
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    90% of the people on this forum that aren't cleric healers...are rogues...so you're probably going to get alot of "omg no don't nerf my class" posts...kinda like the crying all the healers post when people post threads complaining about healers being OP...which is all the time

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    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfe19 View Post
    90% of the people on this forum that aren't cleric healers...are rogues...so you're probably going to get alot of "omg no don't nerf my class" posts...kinda like the crying all the healers post when people post threads complaining about healers being OP...which is all the time
    90% huh...
    Even free cost too much now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfe19 View Post
    90% of the people on this forum that aren't cleric healers...are rogues...so you're probably going to get alot of "omg no don't nerf my class" posts...kinda like the crying all the healers post when people post threads complaining about healers being OP...which is all the time
    This... Plus devs that don't play the game but like to read the cries on the forums, and now we have a broken pvp system that's going downhill fast.

  8. #8
    Ascendant bitnine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stryfe19 View Post
    90% of the people on this forum that aren't cleric healers...are rogues...so you're probably going to get alot of "omg no don't nerf my class" posts...
    That's an excellent point.

    So please tell me more about DPS rogues riding the OP spikeatour gravy train to killtown in PvP. Because that's totally not an imaginary thing at all.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    1. Sucks for pvp.
    2. Yes, good run down of things a MM is suppose to do.
    3. Can't do all at once, and focusing on either isn't special.
    4. Because right now it feels like full DPS or bust, though I still see some with their NB/RS specs. I made a sin/rs because it was silly how hard it was to kill me. I didn't do anything insane to other though, just hurt moderately.
    Basically this translates to, "rogues are now even with the other callings on dps but this is my skewed translation of it". Not disagreeing with the conclusions of some, but that's all callings you could break down the different souls just like that.

    Since they were far and wide as a whole very much more powerful pvp wise for a very long time (thats not to say other callings didn't jump in and out over this period as well), they aren't used to being normalized.

    That is also to say I am saying no they don't need a nerf as far as I'm seeing with the valor changes, although I would have thought they would be the ones still sticking out, I'm not seeing it overly much. Before I was definitely saying something needed done.

    What most likely happened is the time frame of their burst window was pretty awesome for flat out killing people before the extra damage mitigation. Now people actually live through that burst frame and can fight back (novel idea). With nearly 50% of pvp'ers going rogue at points who do you think was most egregious for causing the 3-5 second TTK. Although all callings contributed pure numbers (and your brain if you pvp'd at all) showed you and you knew intuitively what calling was causing the biggest portion of this, for said above reasons, save for such classes like MM who had not just burst, but sustained great damage.

    That would also be the reason Violacea wants the valor rolled back and is not asking for a healing nerf like most the other, smarter dps, although I feel he himself is so biased he doesn't even realize this is a big reason why. It is a biased thing due to the aforementioned since he wants rogues back in their state killing everyone, not just healers. Yes he wants to burst you down too dps. All advantages sway by and large in the rogue classes favor as you lower the valor.

    Breakdown for the naysayers. 1) Burst was out of control 2) Rogue is the most taken class in pvp-at least was prior to valor changes. 3) TTK was roughly 3-5 seconds. 4) Lots of rogues saying this is stupid and roll back valor. 5) Seen lots of warriors saying opposite that healing is the problem not the valor. Make a logical conclusion based off of this.

    In conclusion don't change rogue up or down (for the most part save for any outliers we find with dps vs. dps). Fix healing on an individual bases (individual healing abilities).
    Last edited by Wrastion; 02-20-2013 at 07:42 AM.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched Zekken's Avatar
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    lol @ rogues thinking they aren't OP... ^^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by AceinHole View Post
    MM can purge, yes (just became much more useful now that healers are god mode). MM can also silence (but it is an interrupt silence, which means you have to get lucky and/or time it just perfectly. It is not just a spam silence like is commonly believed). And, yes, they put out good burst damage. So I agree on all that. But I disagree about survivability CD's. If you consider running for the hills a CD, then yeah. Otherwise, there is no survival at all unless you mix it with RS, which is dumb and gimps your damage.
    Being able to run away is by far the best survival tool in this game because it scales perfectly with the number/type of your opponents. When you have the highest movement speed and max range, plus a number of escapes, you don't have to fight anyone you don't want to. It's an insane advantage made all the crazier by how much damage and utility ranged rogues bring to the table. By contrast, something like pyro has a lot more control (stun, root, disarm) but is overrun and quickly snuffed out in any group setting.

    Sure, you can go 61 tact and get all three but your damage (and healing) will be *seriously* gimped because your'e missing out on the hybridization damage bonuses you get with other souls.
    This is just an enormous indictment of the rogue calling in general. I know for mage, you don't lose tons of damage by going to 61 points in your dps specs. In fact, most mage specs are completely broken if you don't go for max points because you're missing crucial lynch-pin abilities at the 54-61pt marks. For whatever reason, this doesn't seem to apply to rogues. They've got so many ridiculous damage mods spread throughout all of the souls that they can hybrid left and right for total bonuses other callings would kill for.

  13. #13
    Telaran LATVIAN's Avatar
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    Just close this QQ thread...

    1st of all MM class may have good single target dps however they are squishy if you ever played a rogue you will see. As for the stuns ye they have stuns however that is a rogue. If you play smart anybody can overcome that single target dps and rely on them being squishy due to most builds going for assasin rather than ranger. With no pet to soak the damage it makes em pretty squishy.

    2nd taticians may have good AOE however try pving somebody and running out of energy in the first 5-6secs and thats what70-80% of em do just span glacial and infernal torents and then no energy and you are a goner. If you avoid that burst AOE dps then you are fine.

    That is just my two cents on this thread.

    Thank You
    Last edited by LATVIAN; 02-20-2013 at 08:44 AM.

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    Ascendant azabar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by handerhank View Post
    Being able to run away is by far the best survival tool in this game because it scales perfectly with the number/type of your opponents. When you have the highest movement speed and max range, plus a number of escapes, you don't have to fight anyone you don't want to. It's an insane advantage made all the crazier by how much damage and utility ranged rogues bring to the table. By contrast, something like pyro has a lot more control (stun, root, disarm) but is overrun and quickly snuffed out in any group setting.



    This is just an enormous indictment of the rogue calling in general. I know for mage, you don't lose tons of damage by going to 61 points in your dps specs. In fact, most mage specs are completely broken if you don't go for max points because you're missing crucial lynch-pin abilities at the 54-61pt marks. For whatever reason, this doesn't seem to apply to rogues. They've got so many ridiculous damage mods spread throughout all of the souls that they can hybrid left and right for total bonuses other callings would kill for.

    *Being able to run away is by far the best survival tool in this game because it scales perfectly with the number/type of your opponents.*

    you sir are whats wrong with pvp.

  15. #15
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azabar View Post
    *Being able to run away is by far the best survival tool in this game because it scales perfectly with the number/type of your opponents.*

    you sir are whats wrong with pvp.
    Whats wrong with that statement?

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