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Thread: Making the Case for Removal of Faction Specific Warfront Queues

  1. #1
    Ascendant Ajax1114's Avatar
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    Default Making the Case for Removal of Faction Specific Warfront Queues

    Or, in other words, no more queue places you on one faction by default and then the other if the first one is filled. For warfronts, that is.

    The idea is: Make the side you get on completely random (treating groups as one entity of course).

    Why?

    1) Often when people are getting torn apart, they'll make arguments like, "Don't feed them favor. If we feed them favor, they gear up faster and are more likely to tear us a new one the next time." With random queues, this argument is void. In other words, less excuses for giving up.

    2) [My losing faction] is full of horrible players, the other faction is not, and that's why we lose most of the time. With random queues, there is no "horrible faction" excuse - if one faction really does have a distinct player advantage, that will no longer matter, and result in better matches.

    3) Faction is already fiction as it is in warfronts and even to some degree, out of warfronts. Queues being random means less chance of people getting attached to playing as a particular faction in a warfront and are thus less likely to become disillusioned when they get merc'd.

    Why not?

    You tell me.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Don't have a why not. Without breaking up people who que together, it should do its best to distribute classes. Everyone can play different roles so it isn't flawless. But it is a step forward I think from the merc system making team fill up faster. Now just take that faster fill up and tell it to divy the people up more, maybe based on class alone or role used when entering. Something would work better than nothing. No match making system will be flawless if you want to let people grouped stay together and allow changing of roles in WFs. This I think is a close swing.
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  3. #3
    Rift Disciple
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    agree, plus we all know that guardians have more healers and healing is out of whack now

  4. #4
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax1114 View Post
    Or, in other words, no more queue places you on one faction by default and then the other if the first one is filled. For warfronts, that is.

    The idea is: Make the side you get on completely random (treating groups as one entity of course).

    Why?

    1) Often when people are getting torn apart, they'll make arguments like, "Don't feed them favor. If we feed them favor, they gear up faster and are more likely to tear us a new one the next time." With random queues, this argument is void. In other words, less excuses for giving up.

    2) [My losing faction] is full of horrible players, the other faction is not, and that's why we lose most of the time. With random queues, there is no "horrible faction" excuse - if one faction really does have a distinct player advantage, that will no longer matter, and result in better matches.

    3) Faction is already fiction as it is in warfronts and even to some degree, out of warfronts. Queues being random means less chance of people getting attached to playing as a particular faction in a warfront and are thus less likely to become disillusioned when they get merc'd.

    Why not?

    You tell me.
    Agree!! Factional war fronts are well past their sell bye date.
    EvanX / Nihilist / Insurgent

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    Ascendant Valnak's Avatar
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    +1 great idea

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    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Don't have a why not. Without breaking up people who que together, it should do its best to distribute classes. Everyone can play different roles so it isn't flawless. But it is a step forward I think from the merc system making team fill up faster. Now just take that faster fill up and tell it to divy the people up more, maybe based on class alone or role used when entering. Something would work better than nothing. No match making system will be flawless if you want to let people grouped stay together and allow changing of roles in WFs. This I think is a close swing.
    This seems so obvious....and easy. I doubt we'll ever see truly balanced wf's, but at least this would get us closer.
    EvanX / Nihilist / Insurgent

  7. #7
    Telaran masyn's Avatar
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    I'm going to agree with a caveat.

    After recently returning from a 1-year general gaming sabbaticle I've dove into PvP far more than when I played at launch and I'm really enjoying it. I have to say, that after getting used to the idea that we're all a big happy family now and able to guild / dungeon crawl / and party in the open world (aside from reminders at various outposts) - I was surprised that this didn't extend to warfronts. Being candid - they did this 'pooling' for the sake of dungeon queues and overall player interaction due to declined player base in general, as I doubt this was the original design. (You go with the flow...) All things considered, it seems like they really do need to drop this final pseudo-wall for the sake of queue expedience and overall balance.

    That said - I can somewhat see a sentiment behind leaving warfronts as the final bastion of 'factional' conflict and pride.
    [FONT="Georgia"]Masyn - 60 warr - Deepwood
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    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    As long as I can still group with my guildies, I'm cool with it.
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  9. #9
    Ascendant Charlice's Avatar
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    Worked in EQ2. There was only ever red vs blue in battlegrounds.

    The player base here is so different though, I can't begin to imagine the tears.
    I think it's a good idea, but with Mercs I'm not sure there's a need for it here.


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  10. #10
    Ascendant Ailene's Avatar
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    People will always find an excuse for their losses, which means if they mix factions totally in WFs, people will find something else to whine over in WF when it's everybody else's bad that their team is losing.

    But with that said, I'm totally with you. I was one of the people that didn't welcome the option with Mercs. But it didn't take me long to adjust and deal with it. And I never was one of those people you saw back then, that just stood in base refusing to fight for the other team. It's actually quite long since I saw someone do that, which makes me believe that it would not upset many if we mixed factions. I mean, we guild together, do CQ together, we chat together and group together.

    So yes, go ahead. I've said it for a while now, I wish they looked more into balancing WFs and made the queue more like "One Cleric for this side, and one Cleric for that side....". Try to make each team have it's share from all classes, compared to now where one side can have lots of Warriors while the other side has none, but got lots of Clerics instead. Of course all got Rogues atm....

    Quote Originally Posted by Misun View Post
    As long as I can still group with my guildies, I'm cool with it.
    Yes agree, don't want to see it split up groups. It's fun fighting your guildies, but if you chose to queue together you should be put into same team.

  11. #11
    General of Telara Ashh's Avatar
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    Rift's best rogue agrees. That me btw if you haven't seen the top 5 rogues thread lately.

  12. #12
    Rift Master Anathemus's Avatar
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    Default I'm not sure...

    that this isn't the way it already is, at least to a certain extent. I am generally queued as a healer, and get merced frequently as a result (my toon is guardian side). Even though I am merced against my will, I still see Bahmi merced onto the Guardian side. The only explanation of this is that there is basically a pool of players that they just place into teams, one for blue, one for red, one for blue... until they run out. Given the generally lazy way in which they approach these issues, I would expect no more from them.

    Either way who cares at this point. The only pvp server is nearly a ghosttown since everybody is holding hands on derpwood, we share a main city (since one can only assume it was too expensive to make two cities) all of the questlines are shared. Lets face it, the faction system is dead, and Tron killed it, so one can only hope they intend to expand upon the Dom, NF, Oat paradigm and give us some conflict again. Afterall, what is pvp without some conflict? Come on Tron, gimme some death! I don't wanna be a carebear.
    Last edited by Anathemus; 01-26-2013 at 07:07 AM.
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  13. #13
    Rift Master Anathemus's Avatar
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    Default Pff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashh View Post
    Rift's best rogue agrees. That me btw if you haven't seen the top 5 rogues thread lately.
    Self promotion is tacky.
    "The thousand little pieces of my life, which I have tried so hard to hold onto, are slipping through my fingers again. Each time I have to pick them back up, my hands seem a little smaller. Don't pity me, kill me. Just be gentle." -from my hour of need-

  14. #14
    General of Telara Ashh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anathemus View Post
    Self promotion is tacky.
    I have to keep telling them or they might forget, kids have short attention spans.... oh look something shiny!
    Last edited by Ashh; 01-26-2013 at 09:57 AM.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Ajax1114's Avatar
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    Thanks for the perspectives guys! Keep them coming.
    Quote Originally Posted by masyn View Post
    That said - I can somewhat see a sentiment behind leaving warfronts as the final bastion of 'factional' conflict and pride.
    I could see that. I'm curious what a lot of the hardcore RPers would say to a change like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ailene View Post
    People will always find an excuse for their losses, which means if they mix factions totally in WFs, people will find something else to whine over in WF when it's everybody else's bad that their team is losing.

    But with that said, I'm totally with you. I was one of the people that didn't welcome the option with Mercs. But it didn't take me long to adjust and deal with it. And I never was one of those people you saw back then, that just stood in base refusing to fight for the other team. It's actually quite long since I saw someone do that, which makes me believe that it would not upset many if we mixed factions. I mean, we guild together, do CQ together, we chat together and group together.

    So yes, go ahead. I've said it for a while now, I wish they looked more into balancing WFs and made the queue more like "One Cleric for this side, and one Cleric for that side....". Try to make each team have it's share from all classes, compared to now where one side can have lots of Warriors while the other side has none, but got lots of Clerics instead. Of course all got Rogues atm....
    You do have a point that people will find excuses anyway, but the way I look at it, the less rational excuses people can muster, the harder it is for them to utilize those excuses without feeling some kind of social obligation to go play with their team.

    Right now, excuses like "their side will get geared faster" are actually somewhat legitimate in terms of rationale.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ailene View Post
    Yes agree, don't want to see it split up groups. It's fun fighting your guildies, but if you chose to queue together you should be put into same team.
    Oh definitely. Like I said, "Treating groups as one entity of course." (Meaning they would be treated like a single individual when it came to the random roll.)

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