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Thread: Rogue V Mage, A Comparison

  1. #1
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Default Rogue V Mage, A Comparison

    First of all, a screenshot:

    http://postimage.org/image/ik1y3zmyt/

    This was taken today on battle for port scion, the person at the top I believe was running an AoE spec tactician build/hybrid, I myself was running a necromancer pure spec based around AoE damage.

    Now i don't know if my mathematics are entirely correct but this is what i generally found:

    Difference between stats:

    His Stats - My Stats = Totals
    --------------------------------------------------

    5,007,555 - 4,073,221 = +934,334 +23% Damage Dealt

    1,596,011 - 1,589,285 = +6,726 +0.4% Damage Taken

    1,194,538 - 16,382 = +1,178,156 +7,192% Healing Done

    --------------------------------------------------

    Unhealed Damage Taken

    --------------------------------------------------

    Damage Taken - Healing Taken = Totals


    1,596,011 - 1,146,351 = 449,660

    1,589,285 - 839,892 = 749,393
    ------------------------------------
    Difference Of = 299,733
    ------------------------------------


    -----------------------------------------------------

    Healing Taken - Healing Done

    1,146,351 - 1,194,538 = -48,187

    839,892 - 16,382 = +823,510

    48,187 more healing done than taken.

    823,510 of my healing done was from external sources.

    -----------------------------------------------------

    He has 22.9% more damage

    I have 30.0% more Mitigation

    He has 7,191% more healing

    -----------------------------------------------------

    30.0 - 22.9 = 7.1% Overall actual mitigation difference.


    And, as you can see by the screenshot the player wasn't playing at his absolute best this warfront.

    20 kills 12 deaths
    14 kills 0 deaths

    So, in this particular example I didn't encounter a single death, and throughout the entire battle my team was just engaging members of the enemy team from the bridge (as you do) yet even though my performance was better in this particular battle my damage was less, and my healing was >>Substantially<< less.

    We took about the same damage, which Is why i present this example, so the developers themselves can go over it and tweak the game in the future.

    The point is when it comes down to range, the two specs are somewhat equal (i believe he was running tactician), When it comes down to damage his was substantially higher, and when it comes down to healing his healing was also many times greater.

    I didn't see his gear, but im running basically full freelancers right now at max PA with full pvp runes so that would probably account for my mitigation.

    Just seems a little bit whack and unbalanced, I mean the guy dies 12 times yet deals more damage, takes the same damage and does an incredibly greater sum of healing.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

  2. #2
    General of Telara Ashh's Avatar
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    Lololololololololololololololololololol

    Yes Devs, please take a deep look into this. I mean with all this information you will not have any excuse not to have a fully balanced game by the next couple of patches. I mean we have what spec the rogue was running and what kind of gear he had on and if he was duoing with anyone that maybe could have gave him some buffs and.........................oh wait no we don't.
    Last edited by Ashh; 01-23-2013 at 09:23 AM.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Valnak's Avatar
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    Necromancer is bad and you should feel bad.

    If you want a pet spec, run ele.

    If you want an aoe spec run dom.

  4. #4
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valnak View Post
    Necromancer is bad and you should feel bad.

    If you want a pet spec, run ele.

    If you want an aoe spec run dom.
    Yeah, I know it's bad that's why i'm making stuff like this more public.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

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    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    rogues do well in zerg WFs, news at 11.

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    Do puri shields count on the scoreboard?

    And what other utility does each of you provide for the team beyond AoE damage and heals?

    I haven't touched my rogue or mage since SL released, so I've got no clue what might separate the builds.
    Currently playing Beermaid lvl 65 War

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    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Try hardcasting Mass Graves next time and let me know if it helps.
    Glaiveheart :: Warrior || Areyk :: Cleric || <Wasted Talent> || Deepwood || Likes Received (1,200)
    Also: Kyerashield :: Warrior || Keirsti :: Rogue || Jariale :: Cleric || Kaliboras :: Mage
    Webmaster for "Do You Even Rift?" || Play Rock Band? Check out the Rock Band: Harmonies Project!

  8. #8
    General of Telara Ashh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    rogues do well in zerg WFs, news at 11.
    Have you seen me in a PS? Well doesn't describe what happens when I step into a PS. You need phrases like "****ing AMAZING!" or "Totally unbelievable!".

  9. #9
    Ascendant Valnak's Avatar
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    So why do you run bad specs and demand class balance based around them?

    You issue is that nec sucks even when compared to other mage specs that have the same role. You should be arguing for necromancer buffs specifically for pvp.

    Furthermore this topic should be discussed in the mage forums.

    Mage aoe is fine in pvp if you use the correct combos. Dom is easily the best aoe soul in the game due to how much it can influence battles.

  10. #10
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    rogues do well in zerg WFs, news at 11.
    I noticed ;)

    Another thing that bugs me is how mages have to spend 5 points in dominator just for equal range to another classes dps range spec which means:

    0.5% x 5 = + 2.5% Damage
    1.0% x 5 = + 5.0% AoE Damage

    And missing out on spell power or whatever from taking a pure Damage based soul

    Compared to rogues just going 5 mm and getting the base 5% damage increase.

    Just seems a little weird and I wonder how the engine actually factors all this in but generally i find going into a pure 1% damage soul increases damage a heck of a lot, as well as points into damage specific talents higher up in the tree.

    Like for instance, tempest, its full 61 points are in a damage tree AND the range bonus as well so if you make a pure range dps spec as a warrior you can go 61 points all the way and get the range bonus with 15 shiny points left over to put into whatever soul you want.

    But for a mage, if you make a 61 spec you kind of HAVE to spec 5 of those extra 15 points into dominator or face being gimped on range..

    Seems a little unfair for a soul which is primarily 95% range dps orientated don't you think?
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

  11. #11
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    As a mage, you should always be spending points in Dominator.

    It's that good.
    Glaiveheart :: Warrior || Areyk :: Cleric || <Wasted Talent> || Deepwood || Likes Received (1,200)
    Also: Kyerashield :: Warrior || Keirsti :: Rogue || Jariale :: Cleric || Kaliboras :: Mage
    Webmaster for "Do You Even Rift?" || Play Rock Band? Check out the Rock Band: Harmonies Project!

  12. #12
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valnak View Post
    So why do you run bad specs and demand class balance based around them?

    You issue is that nec sucks even when compared to other mage specs that have the same role. You should be arguing for necromancer buffs specifically for pvp.

    Furthermore this topic should be discussed in the mage forums.

    Mage aoe is fine in pvp if you use the correct combos. Dom is easily the best aoe soul in the game due to how much it can influence battles.
    I'm well aware of dominators potential, im just posting some hard facts and seeing what you all think thats all.

    I know dominator is more effective, but generally it remains unchanged compared to pre-SL regarding its role so im basically addressing necromancer because its role has kind of altered and the entire tree has been adjusted so much.

    Im not arguing for class balance around a specific soul, like i say im just posting some hard facts and seeing what you all think.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

  13. #13
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Do me a favour and compare Marksman's AoE to Necromancer's AoE in your next test.
    Glaiveheart :: Warrior || Areyk :: Cleric || <Wasted Talent> || Deepwood || Likes Received (1,200)
    Also: Kyerashield :: Warrior || Keirsti :: Rogue || Jariale :: Cleric || Kaliboras :: Mage
    Webmaster for "Do You Even Rift?" || Play Rock Band? Check out the Rock Band: Harmonies Project!

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    Ascendant Valnak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fujitasix View Post
    Do puri shields count on the scoreboard?

    And what other utility does each of you provide for the team beyond AoE damage and heals?

    I haven't touched my rogue or mage since SL released, so I've got no clue what might separate the builds.
    The easiest way for me to describe mage right now is: fun.

    Dom has been reworked. You lost accel decay and incompetence for screwing over single players but gained a lot of aoe. You rely on mana wrench more, it does decent damage. Transference is still op vs rogue/warr. The silences (fixed today?) Are gamechangers for healer killings.

    You can actually cover mass betrayal now. This part is just insane. You've gained a lot of covers for your good skills and get even more by going 16 into lock.

    By going 58+ dom you get insanely powerful aoe, stopping at 51 you get a ton more ways of escaping and/or ccing single targets.

    There's a lot more info, but my phone is dying. Ill post on DYER my review of the mage class if you want.

  15. #15
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    As a mage, you should always be spending points in Dominator.

    It's that good.
    I know that, im trying to address the bad not the good.

    Its like, if i wanted to run pure ST dps i could run pyromancer or elementalist, If i want to run AoE spec then id run dominator so i could mana drain the hell out of the enemy team.

    I don't get why you all consistently seem to badmouth me as if i dont know any good specs or the role of the different mage souls :P

    I know the good specs, thats why i don't complain about pyromancer being underpowered, or dominator not fitting a specific role properly when clearly they do.

    I know the good souls, i just never play them because they are fine already (and honestly, domi and pyro are SOOO dull after being a pyrodom/chlorodom for a good year, necromancer is "fresh" with SL you know, so im trying to get it sorted out)
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

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