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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Complete failure in pseudo randominzing Conquest teams.

  1. #1
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    Default Complete failure in pseudo randominzing Conquest teams.

    Here's why:

    % of wins will remain 60% NF, 35% Oath, 5% Dom until teams START OUT and are MAINTAINED at EVEN levels!

    Dom wins... sure, they also won before this change, when NF had an 80 player zerg... but the % of their wins will be tediously low until teams are balanced. PERIOD!

    Currently, if you join NF or Oath and are put in Dom, that's PROOF that Dom has severely less players than BOTH of the other teams. NF *still* goes "FULL" first... then shortly after Oath goes "FULL"... and Dom *NEVER* hits full status. Again, PROOF Dom's forces are severely weaker than both the other factions.

    Setting a preference does absolutely nothing in terms of making CQ more fair. If anything, you're just pissing players off by forcing them onto a weaker team without them choosing it, while still allowing others, with better connections, the preference of a stronger team. "Here, you're a loser, so we're putting you on the losing team!"

    The system you've implemented is FAR WORSE than the system we had *AND* a truely random system that could force teams to be even AT ALL STAGES of the game.

    All you players that are going to say, "Just try harder on Dom" or "just give it time" or "Wow, your attitude is why Dom loses" or "Dom does win!" aren't looking at the real picture.

    During your Conquests... look at the zerg sizes. NF always has a full zerg. Oath almost always has a full zerg, and Dom, well, they've got 1/2 their team running around being useless because they know they're going to lose while the other half is little more than a nuisence to the other 2 teams.

    Regardless of the fluke Dom wins *MAYBE* once a day, NF will continue to win a higher percentage because NF's team will ALWAYS be larger than the other 2 until Trion forces a truely random queuing system.

    Deny it all you want... but until there's a live team counter in Conquest to prove the teams are balanced... THEY WON'T BE!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhrawn View Post
    Here's why:

    % of wins will remain 60% NF, 35% Oath, 5% Dom until teams START OUT and are MAINTAINED at EVEN levels!

    Dom wins... sure, they also won before this change, when NF had an 80 player zerg... but the % of their wins will be tediously low until teams are balanced. PERIOD!

    Currently, if you join NF or Oath and are put in Dom, that's PROOF that Dom has severely less players than BOTH of the other teams. NF *still* goes "FULL" first... then shortly after Oath goes "FULL"... and Dom *NEVER* hits full status. Again, PROOF Dom's forces are severely weaker than both the other factions.

    Setting a preference does absolutely nothing in terms of making CQ more fair. If anything, you're just pissing players off by forcing them onto a weaker team without them choosing it, while still allowing others, with better connections, the preference of a stronger team. "Here, you're a loser, so we're putting you on the losing team!"

    The system you've implemented is FAR WORSE than the system we had *AND* a truely random system that could force teams to be even AT ALL STAGES of the game.

    All you players that are going to say, "Just try harder on Dom" or "just give it time" or "Wow, your attitude is why Dom loses" or "Dom does win!" aren't looking at the real picture.

    During your Conquests... look at the zerg sizes. NF always has a full zerg. Oath almost always has a full zerg, and Dom, well, they've got 1/2 their team running around being useless because they know they're going to lose while the other half is little more than a nuisence to the other 2 teams.

    Regardless of the fluke Dom wins *MAYBE* once a day, NF will continue to win a higher percentage because NF's team will ALWAYS be larger than the other 2 until Trion forces a truely random queuing system.

    Deny it all you want... but until there's a live team counter in Conquest to prove the teams are balanced... THEY WON'T BE!
    every game i played yesterday either dom or oath won. if nf is full it will immediately throw that person cue-ing on dom or oath right away when the match starts. (they dont have a choice and it wont tell them.) the problem is that either a.) noone is a leading voice, or b.) nooone wants to listen to the leading voice, c.) the raids are not communicating with one another.
    Last edited by Ehxon; 01-17-2013 at 12:27 PM.

  3. #3
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    well...in either case.. dom will remain undermanned in this, or should I say, one team will remain severely out numbered, simply because there is a option to join a team of your choosing. imo, next patch take it one step further and drop that choice, leaving only a "Join Conquest" button and a "Join as Group" button. this will go much further in ironing out the population imbalance that is clearly evident right up to the end of each conquest match.

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    so you think dom looses cause they have 10 less players the first 5 minutes of a 2-3h conquest? LOL.

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    It won't change the fact that Dom has 30 people AFKing in the base. Last night I queued for Oath and got a message "You are allied with Dominion". I never clicked Enter because I didn't want to be free kills for NF and Oath zerg. I went forth and did Whitefall, and got a randomly queued to NF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos View Post
    so you think dom looses cause they have 10 less players the first 5 minutes of a 2-3h conquest? LOL.
    10 less players is a huge understatement, the team undermanned is usually so by at least a raid of not more, and it's for the duration of the match, from beginning to end, don't forget those who queued for nf/oath and got dom instead, and then either afk or leave all together. (replace said faction with any other faction, the situation remains the same).

    don't get me wrong, it's a step in the right direction, just needs that final touch. This was what we said needed done first and foremost to cq when it came out back in vanilla and trion went from saying may, to we cant, to no plans, to this!!, almost there guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    10 less players is a huge understatement, the team undermanned is usually so by at least a raid of not more, and it's for the duration of the match, from beginning to end, don't forget those who queued for nf/oath and got dom instead, and then either afk or leave all together. (replace said faction with any other faction, the situation remains the same).

    don't get me wrong, it's a step in the right direction, just needs that final touch. This was what we said needed done first and foremost to cq when it came out back in vanilla and trion went from saying may, to we cant, to no plans, to this!!, almost there guys.
    oh man, PLEASE trion ad a counter how many players are on each side so this myths stop finally...

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    Last night I checked the Conquest queue periodically for 2 matches. I wanted to see if what I experienced in Conquest was correct. Both matches more than an hour after Conquest started - Nightfall full, Oath full and Dominion join was available. Each time I looked between warfronts. To have completely even teams and spread equally afkers so they don't just join Dominion - make 100% random queue, no preference. There is only gain from a 100% random queue, no reason to be against it. Friends, guild mates can still join together and will be placed in a random faction together but regardless of queuing solo or in a group each faction fills up equally. A pure random queue would have made the matches more competitive and promote higher morale since the start of Conquest. Trion don't put it off any longer, after all these months just go ahead and do what's been needed.

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    You are simply wrong, about pretty much all of this. Conquest teams are significantly more balanced. And the game entirely different.

    Nf has not even won a single conquest I have been in since yesterday which is five or six of them.
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    a counter will be only a partial help as long as nothing is done to remove AFKers from CQ.

    if a counter shows even teams, Dom will still be weaker due to the excessive numbers of AFKers that are the only ones to actively queue dom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirimon View Post
    10 less players is a huge understatement, the team undermanned is usually so by at least a raid of not more, and it's for the duration of the match, from beginning to end, don't forget those who queued for nf/oath and got dom instead, and then either afk or leave all together. (replace said faction with any other faction, the situation remains the same).

    don't get me wrong, it's a step in the right direction, just needs that final touch. This was what we said needed done first and foremost to cq when it came out back in vanilla and trion went from saying may, to we cant, to no plans, to this!!, almost there guys.


    It is not the case since the change. The only Dom issue are the afkers who got used to queuing Dom and still do so. They front load Dom and hamstring them a bit.

    If they fix the afk issue (or it fixes itself as this front loading of afkers to Dom subsides) then balance will be there.

    Dom has been very competitive in every conquest I played in and won more than nf. I feel like you have not played conquest at all or only once since yesterday.
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    This is the players fault. If they weren't so illogically tied to imaginary factions we could have matches of teams vs teams. But no, everyone cares so much about the name of their team. And people have the audacity to call anyone a care bear in this game. If they want que'd games to match the best, you don't get to pick your side. That is just how it is. This is a pathetic attempt to do what really needs to be done while trying to still APPEASE THE ILLOGICAL PEOPLE.
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    I've played 9 conquest matches since the patch. NF won 5 of those, Oath won 3, and Dom won once.

    Personally, I hate the idea of a random CQ, but what they've done with this 'fix' is horribad... worse than a truely random system. Since they really are going this direction, don't do it half-assed, just do it right! Nothing's worse than a compromise that's worse than either of the ideas by themselves!

    I've been asking for a CQ team counter for MONTHS now, but we'll never see one. Trion does NOT want to let any of the players see just how horribly lopsided the teams really are! The ONLY way that would get implemented is if it was made random and balanced and they no longer had anything to hide.
    Last edited by Bhrawn; 01-17-2013 at 03:49 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ehxon View Post
    every game i played yesterday either dom or oath won. if nf is full it will immediately throw that person cue-ing on dom or oath right away when the match starts. (they dont have a choice and it wont tell them.) the problem is that either a.) noone is a leading voice, or b.) nooone wants to listen to the leading voice, c.) the raids are not communicating with one another.
    I completely agree with this statement on all counts...its a team sport and without communication and cooperation you are completely doomed to failure... I had a game in conquest earlier where a few of us decided to try and lead the dom and for 90% of the match DOM had the lead right up until the timer then the other teams got smart (oathsword especially) who do what they usually do to win and split off into capping groups to sweep at the end. The match went to the kill counter and was by far the best conquest match i have been in since storm legion conquest came back as anyone had a good shot of winning right to the end. that said afkers really need to be booted much faster than they are though. I do also agree with other posters that it should still be made a fully random queue though too, but it is certainly better than it was.

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    lol about "counters" nono, we don't need to see these "counters", it's pretty simple, person for person people get added to a team at random, no team will get another player unless all teams have the same number in them, so.. what if people leave? it goes back to the first point, with a team short handed that team has priority on filling until even. until even, that faction with the lowest will get a small buff scaling with the number of players short it has (SMALL buff.. nothing extreme, which can now happen w/o atrius to wreck it all) . it really isn't that hard.

    queuing as a group? goo, the other 2 teams will then have priority until they are filled to be even with the faction that got group queues.

    afk's.. that's a whole other issue, but yes, this is far closer to balanced faction populations than it has ever been, just needs that final touch.

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