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Thread: Diminishing Returns / CC-Immunity System broken

  1. #1
    Soulwalker Seraiel's Avatar
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    Default Diminishing Returns / CC-Immunity System broken

    Hi.

    This is not a post to complain or whine, but just to state how it is.

    Something is horribly wrong with diminishing returns / cc-immunity-timers in PvP. I haven't figured out what exactly, because I'm the type of person who simply plays the game as it is (and that a lot) , so I actually don't care now, but I ask you, Trion, to fix this.

    Situation:

    Some Players I play against are able to keep me completely stunned, silenced, disabled forever (like 1 minute +) . I don't know exactly how they do it, I think it's a combination out of cc-immunity beginning when the spell / style is applied, not when the spell / style wears off, so immunity is almost over when one is again able to cast (a healer mate told me he noticed the symbol only blinking for a milisecond after cc was over) and different cc's seem to have different immunities, so i. e. it's possible for a rogue to silence someone after a warrior had silenced the same person before.

    This can absolutely not be working as intended.

    SuNriser (Healer)
    Last edited by Seraiel; 01-16-2013 at 01:00 AM.

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara
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    I am aware of a problem with Arresting Presence at the moment. A good Dom with the right rotation can effectively perma-silence any caster as long as they have charge.

  3. #3
    Plane Walker
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    Certain silences bypass DR for various reasons.

    Priest's lament bypasses it since otherwise it would be kind of silly having 5 charges on it.

    Choking gas bomb bypasses it for the sake of flavor, allowing the saboteur to cover strategic points (personally I've always felt cabalist sigils should work this way). You can move out of the bomb area to remove the effect, though it will reapply if you run back in. Facing a team of multiple sabs though there are times where you literally won't be able to stand anywhere to do what you gotta do. Smart single sabs will also toss their aoe root trap to prevent you from running out of it.

    Finally there's another dom skill: arresting presence. This one really needs changed. The only reasons I can see them making this one unaffected by the DR is because it doesn't have a set duration and it's supposed to follow the APed person around silencing people near them and unsilencing when not. Unfortunately this can be used in some rather OP manners such as a spammable aoe interrupt or with proper charge management an incredibly long duration silence.

    Other than those skills I too have noticed oddities with DR, occasionally getting deadened in quick succession for example, and times when the time spent free was noticeably less than the duration of a stun.
    Last edited by Shoggoth1890; 01-16-2013 at 01:37 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoggoth1890 View Post
    Finally there's another dom skill: arresting presence. This one really needs changed. The only reasons I can see them making this one unaffected by the DR is because it doesn't have a set duration and it's supposed to follow the APed person around silencing people near them and unsilencing when not. Unfortunately this can be used in some rather OP manners such as a spammable aoe interrupt or with proper charge management an incredibly long duration silence.
    AP is affected by DR. Unfortunately the problem lies in the way that DR is calculated. Anyone affected by a CC gains an immunity for as long as the CC lasted if i understand how it works correctly.

    Now, AP is more or less a toggle ability with no cooldown and its only limitation is charge. So, if you turn AP on and off at 1 second intervals you have 1 sec silenced, 1 sec DR, 1 sec silenced, 1 sec DR etc. Since very few casts are under 1 second and to cast an instant your GCD would have to land in the 1 second window you have it creates an illusion of perma-silence. Its particularly bad for clerics with a 1.5 sec GCD.

    Put a 10 sec cooldown on AP = problem solved. (This wouldnt affect PvE AFAIK)

  5. #5
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pett View Post
    AP is affected by DR. Unfortunately the problem lies in the way that DR is calculated. Anyone affected by a CC gains an immunity for as long as the CC lasted if i understand how it works correctly.
    Nah check it out. Go into pvp and hold your AP on a random person inefficiently, releasing it after half charge is gone to ensure they've had it for a good amount of time. You can immediately reapply it again and it's not just the aura minus the silence being applied.

    You do bring up something I've been wanting to test but never got around to though. Whether or not DR is meant to determined by time spent in CC or time the CC is supposed to last. It would be an utterly stupid system if it was based on actual time spent CCed, as it would make cleanses and break free mostly pointless. In the on the fly testing I've done though, DR duration is based on spell duration rather than actual time spent in CC. Have squirrelled people only for them to be broken out right away by random person A hitting them with something and then that person enjoyed a nice long immunity of 6s.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoggoth1890 View Post
    Nah check it out. Go into pvp and hold your AP on a random person inefficiently, releasing it after half charge is gone to ensure they've had it for a good amount of time. You can immediately reapply it again and it's not just the aura minus the silence being applied.

    You do bring up something I've been wanting to test but never got around to though. Whether or not DR is meant to determined by time spent in CC or time the CC is supposed to last. It would be an utterly stupid system if it was based on actual time spent CCed, as it would make cleanses and break free mostly pointless. In the on the fly testing I've done though, DR duration is based on spell duration rather than actual time spent in CC. Have squirrelled people only for them to be broken out right away by random person A hitting them with something and then that person enjoyed a nice long immunity of 6s.
    Strange.... Although if the DR is actually calculating from the base duration of the skill then AP has no base CC length, nor does the sab skill you mentioned before so that would explain the lack of DR on those skills.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker
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    There's still probably a lot of kinks in DR system. I've been pulled rapidly, silenced rapidly, stunned rapidly with skills that when used myself produced DRs more along the lines of what you'd expect.

    The archon skill point to point seems to be applying its rules to different people differently. I'm one of the ones that is able to jump back and forth between them instantly over and over again with no CD. Others are experiencing the reactive cooldown that it's designed to have. Others get the cooldown but are able to reset it by running away from the totem and back. Wouldn't surprise me to find out that DR rules are applying differently to different players as well.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Luknar's Avatar
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    I am starting to see more and more people begining to CC targets, which normally would be a good thing and is smart in pvp, However I have noticed that I can be Silenced 1 right after the other whether it be by the same target or multiple players..

    The issue I am having with this is it does make break free almost worthless.. Especially in bigger fights like CQ or Scion. if your a healer your automatically a target, and again while I find it smart that people are targeting healers, whether by brains or guidance of being marked your deemed basically defenseless with mass CC and massive amounts of stun.
    I would like to see a better DR system implemented in PVP.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    30s/1m immunity with a visible immunity icon, plz.

    Then dial the dur on Break Free back up a bit.
    Last edited by Kyera; 01-16-2013 at 11:18 AM.
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  10. #10
    Plane Touched
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    That's why I don't play a healer in this game. Had enough of crap in certain other MMO.

  11. #11
    Champion of Telara DemonRage's Avatar
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    I recall a game last night where i got rift prisoned 4 times with no percieved shortening of duration. thought it was just me.
    Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward,
    Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both,
    For a wounded man shall say to his assailant "If I die you are forgiven...."

    "If I live, I will kill YOU"
    such is the rule of honour.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Genovah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pett View Post
    I am aware of a problem with Arresting Presence at the moment. A good Dom with the right rotation can effectively perma-silence any caster as long as they have charge.

    and a good cleansers can solve that problem
    Renenation - 60 Mage GOD BLESS PLANET EARTH 2015-DOOMS YEAR COMING TO THEATRES NEAR GALACTIC MILKY WAY LOL

  13. #13
    Champion of Telara DemonRage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genovah View Post
    and a good cleansers can solve that problem
    That is second on the list of stuff i see people complaining "not getting enough" on warfronts. guess what the first one is.
    Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward,
    Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both,
    For a wounded man shall say to his assailant "If I die you are forgiven...."

    "If I live, I will kill YOU"
    such is the rule of honour.

  14. #14
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonRage View Post
    guess what the first one is.
    hugs

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    Ascendant Oblivion333's Avatar
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    Thanks for the post. You know I just thought that the constant silence was from players targeting me constantly, but yes I get silenced a lot at times which doesn't feel normal but just brushed it off. So I guess it really is a broken cc system after all.

    Trion please fix because that ship is annoying!

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