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Thread: Tiny Suggestion Regarding PvP gear costs...nothing big honest

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    Default Tiny Suggestion Regarding PvP gear costs...nothing big honest

    Slash the cost of all CQ items by 60%.

    Seriously, I have to get close to cap in order to get a single trinket upgrade?
    On a WF that lasts hours and has a cooldown of a minimum 30 minutes?
    Was not well planned in that manner.

    The grind to obtain PvP gear beyond mercenary is excessive to say the least, and there is little reason for it to be such an incredible grind.
    I would expect this from playing a game such as TERA where the BIS items can take an immense amount of time to obtain.


    I am not sure if there is a vendor for me to trade in my old CQ marks either.
    if there is, kudos, but that is something that should have been around from the start.

    Now as for the PvP gear itself.
    Remove the requirement of doing dailies to get freelancer/warlord gear.

    Why?

    1. None of the PvP gear currently available comes close to comparing to PvE gear of equivalent level. At best one can make an argument for synergy crystals but the loss of base stats/SP is not worth it for raiding.

    2. There really is not a need to "gate" gear in such a manner because the upgrades from one set to the other is minimal. This means that a rank 80 player vs a player in full merc gear has a slight advantage, not a major one that would dictate the outcome. In team oriented PvP, this slight gear advantage becomes even less important due to the objective oriented PvP in this game.

    3. There are no alternatives for PvP gear. A grind is perfectly acceptable when you can substitute pieces of gear that is equivalent or better. i.e. BiS mage helm is gained from crafting, BUT, you can always get something nice through expert dungeons, world adventure gear and even from the new chronicle.

    4. There are already stiff requirements for obtaining said PvP gear already. First, you must have the proper rank. Second, you must have the previous set of PvP gear. EVERY SINGLE PIECE, only exception is the source engine, which thank god the system prevents such a requirement since the grind is heavy already.

    Why institute the third requirement of marks? PvE does not require such a thing, and as noted above, provides alternatives to cut down the grind significantly.


    tl;dr: Just lower the grind, it is not necessary since the current itemization prevents raiders from whining about PvP gear, and the boosts from each tier is minimal.


    Of course this is only one issue and perhaps the most minor at the moment, but it is one that should be addressed since it is part of why PvP is looked upon with disdain.


    P.S. Could always remove the tank requirements for costume gear sets. Just a thought. <_<

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    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    I am not sure if there is a vendor for me to trade in my old CQ marks either.
    There isn't.
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    Nothing wrong with gear differences as it stands imo. If I was getting owned by 24/7's I be dusting off another MMO to get my fix. And that means lost subs that other MMOs can contest to...Trion at least recognizes their competitors mistakes and have to give them credit for it.

    Also progression curve as it stands is casual friendly and shouldnt be messed with imo....it's just that damn CQ that isnt fun and lacks imagination. The bare bones RvR model Trion needs to evolve and make it their own...one of the major reasons why I am still playing Rift is hope in this matter.

    If CQ was a crap load of fun...grinding turns into fun. In turn who cares!

    For now Trion is using the essences and trinket as a stall factor as far I can see. They are trying to keep both end of the subs playing in the meantime. Once casual or 24/7s get the advantage...poof goes subscriptions. Seen it happen throughout the years. My first encounter was AO SL expansion, many of us casuals left due to the grind (before Blizzard pvp gear model)...TG for Daoc back then

    Anyways, balancing progression amongst the entire player base is tricky business. Careful for what you ask for...next thing you know you are down to a few servers and closed doors one day. Just saying. NCSOFT's CoX didnt give a crap about pvp balance...look what happen to their subs after lot of revenue gave up on it.

    It wont surprise me if Trion fails...everyone else has since Blizzard changed the pvp game. But here's to hoping for old skool style pvp!
    Last edited by Hashashin; 01-03-2013 at 09:22 AM.

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    The issue is progression is currently not equal to your gain.

    PvE? You invest, you receive a good reward.
    PvP? You invest a massive amount of time, for a reward that you cannot even use to keep up with raiders.


    Two things can be done.

    buff PvP gear. Make it like rank 1 through 8. Comparable to its PvE counterpart, but it has less SP. No need to have vengeance if PvE armor is clearly better for raiding and it means PvPers have a means of at least getting into a dungeon.

    Or, remove pvp gear entirely, give everyone 61% damage mitigation, make pvp gear costume based or make it provide a slight edge in pvP but with a much smaller grind.


    People will enjoy PvP if you remove the grind and remove the reward, since then, they PvP to PvP, and don't PvP to get a; currently; garbage reward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    The issue is progression is currently not equal to your gain.

    PvE? You invest, you receive a good reward.
    PvP? You invest a massive amount of time, for a reward that you cannot even use to keep up with raiders.


    Two things can be done.

    buff PvP gear. Make it like rank 1 through 8. Comparable to its PvE counterpart, but it has less SP. No need to have vengeance if PvE armor is clearly better for raiding and it means PvPers have a means of at least getting into a dungeon.

    Or, remove pvp gear entirely, give everyone 61% damage mitigation, make pvp gear costume based or make it provide a slight edge in pvP but with a much smaller grind.


    People will enjoy PvP if you remove the grind and remove the reward, since then, they PvP to PvP, and don't PvP to get a; currently; garbage reward.
    Removing the grind from pvp and removing gear from pvp was a big problem with GW2 pvp imo. I think a grind aspect is pretty important to maintain longevity. Lack of a dedicated healer also sucked, not that it is relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tookmyjob View Post
    Removing the grind from pvp and removing gear from pvp was a big problem with GW2 pvp imo. I think a grind aspect is pretty important to maintain longevity. Lack of a dedicated healer also sucked, not that it is relevant.
    Lack of dedicated healer is why I'm not playing GW2. I should have listened to Kyera
    Last edited by Misun; 01-05-2013 at 02:40 PM. Reason: crispy bat meat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misun View Post
    Lack of dedicated healer is why I'm not playing GW2. I should have listened to Kyera
    Seriously though, it took a special breed of idiot to decide on not having healers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post

    Or, remove pvp gear entirely, give everyone 61% damage mitigation, make pvp gear costume based or make it provide a slight edge in pvP but with a much smaller grind.

    I do understand where you're coming from but regarding the bit I quoted, I have two things to say.

    1: This is already in place in a sense, since everyone who wants to PVP in WFs and CQ, gets bolstered to base Merc stats and gets their mitigation, with the exception of about 5 slots including greater essences.

    2: PVP should be an equal aspect of the game. Currently there is quite a bit wrong with it, but the progression isn't one of them imo.
    There is point 1 I've just stated. And then there is the progression for dedicated PVPers.
    Casual PVPrs shouldn't be able to just jump in to CQ/WFs and gain max rank/gear in a matter of 2 or 3 weeks like it was possible to, till 1.10 or so.
    A lot of people like getting rewarded with more than cosmetic fluff for the time they've put in.
    And I don't mean a gear advantage over someone else, but seeing green numbers on a gearswap.
    In fact, I personally think the bump in stats to make the difference between merc/freelancer/warlord bigger, was a mistake.

    In my personal opinion, the progression is fine. It could be less to cater myself ofcourse, but without being selfish, I'd say it's fine overall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tookmyjob View Post
    Removing the grind from pvp and removing gear from pvp was a big problem with GW2 pvp imo. I think a grind aspect is pretty important to maintain longevity. Lack of a dedicated healer also sucked, not that it is relevant.
    A long line of FPS' would disagree.
    Same for fighting games.

    Thy reward their players with mere vanity.
    A gear element makes things more difficult to balance things out, not easier.
    Best way to reward an MMO player is to provide a feel of progression.

    i.e. items that may provide an edge.
    Progression does not mean you must grind.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cromyr View Post
    I do understand where you're coming from but regarding the bit I quoted, I have two things to say.

    1: This is already in place in a sense, since everyone who wants to PVP in WFs and CQ, gets bolstered to base Merc stats and gets their mitigation, with the exception of about 5 slots including greater essences.
    Nope they get all the mitigation.
    Full merc armor/weapon/essence stats.
    Only exemption is the trinket/greater essences.

    Otherwise you hop in and you are good to go.
    Great idea, but it defeats the purpose of mercenary gear so they should kill mercenary gear and just allow freelancer/warlord gear.

    Less grind, less wasted time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cromyr View Post
    2: PVP should be an equal aspect of the game. Currently there is quite a bit wrong with it, but the progression isn't one of them imo.
    I must disagree with you here.
    The amount of time it takes to obtain a single piece of freelancer gear or warlord gear is roughly a week or so.
    This means that a dedicated PvP'er will more than likely be full rank 80 before he even obtains the entire warlord set and then some.

    This creates the feeling of being walled, of being blocked, and when the other aspect of the game provides alternative means of progression, this becomes more upsetting.

    Nothing will anger someone more than blocking their goal.
    Daily marks is a poor way, it would be better to reward it for winning.
    It provides incentive, and does not outright block someone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cromyr View Post
    There is point 1 I've just stated. And then there is the progression for dedicated PVPers.
    Casual PVPrs shouldn't be able to just jump in to CQ/WFs and gain max rank/gear in a matter of 2 or 3 weeks like it was possible to, till 1.10 or so.
    You mean after they provided favor/prestige/daily/CQ and the like?
    The grind was lowered massively because of what they introduced.
    You and I both know previously when it was only rank 1 through 8, it was a matter of time and dedication, and was not as easily done.

    IN many ways they improved, and while I do agree a casual PvP'er should not just jump in and be rewarded the same way as a dedicated player, PvP is heavily reliat upon the elusive thing of balance.

    It should be easy to get into PvP, and those small edges can be given to dedicated Pvpers without alienating people.
    This current method? It alienates PvPers
    Quote Originally Posted by Cromyr View Post
    A lot of people like getting rewarded with more than cosmetic fluff for the time they've put in.
    And I don't mean a gear advantage over someone else, but seeing green numbers on a gearswap.
    In fact, I personally think the bump in stats to make the difference between merc/freelancer/warlord bigger, was a mistake.

    In my personal opinion, the progression is fine. It could be less to cater myself ofcourse, but without being selfish, I'd say it's fine overall.
    I must disagree, one should not have to wait over a month to obtain a gearset, while in the same vein, outranking said gear set.
    When you have all the vanity items and the only thing left is the actual core gear that provides actual progression, that is a problem.

    Th buff to make merc/free/warlord a larger difference was not a bad idea in itself since it attempted to balance time investment with stat increases, but the grind is still very heavy.

    IMO, if they removed the marks and left the gear stats the same the grind would not be perceived so badly.

    I can understand your opinion though and I could see how it would work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misun View Post
    Lack of dedicated healer is why I'm not playing GW2. I should have listened to Kyera
    It might lack in healing classes but it has an overabundance of crappy gameplay.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baramos View Post
    It might lack in healing classes but it has an overabundance of crappy gameplay.

    How can you tell? Encounters are very short without anyone healing... I made a warrior expecting to go in an smash face, instead you kill one guy then have a choice to bail and maybe live or stay and die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baramos View Post
    It might lack in healing classes but it has an overabundance of crappy gameplay.
    I didn't like not having a mount and I wasn't a fan of how my toons looked while running.

    I know the running thing probably seems dumb, but it's something I judge a game by haha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tookmyjob View Post
    How can you tell? Encounters are very short without anyone healing... I made a warrior expecting to go in an smash face, instead you kill one guy then have a choice to bail and maybe live or stay and die.
    i like it a lot but i guess it's a matter of taste. no healers makes it more dynamic and FPS like. complete different approach compared to traditionnal MMOs like rift.
    Last edited by littlepoit; 01-06-2013 at 02:40 AM.

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    On top of this, encounters are NOT very short.
    heck, most encounters for me were longer than encounters in rift WITH healers.
    I played a mesmer so that might have been it, but all in all it wasn't just a fragfest.

    But yeah, the lack of a healing class + the downed system in PVP put me off it.
    Last edited by Cromyr; 01-06-2013 at 06:07 AM.
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    Don't forget how much fun it is in gw2 to also not be able to zoom out and be required to roll the smallest race to even get somewhat of a decent view around your toon....

    I complain about swtor a lot but gw2 was a game I expected and waited for because pvp was supposed to be this awesome game and I played it less then any other mmo even perfect world took more of my time....
    Last edited by Scarybadlady; 01-06-2013 at 09:32 AM.
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