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Thread: Returning Player Looking For SERIOUS Information on Rift PvP

  1. #1
    Plane Touched TheGrump's Avatar
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    Default Returning Player Looking For SERIOUS Information on Rift PvP

    I'll dispense with most of the preamble. What's important to know is that I started out in Headstart on Ashstone and left just before v1.5. Now I'm on Seastone.

    Some of my fondest memories of any mmorpg are in Rift, both PvE and PvP. In respect to PvP, I remember chasing down the same Dwarf three different times in a few hours while questing in a zone and I remember picking a fight with several Guardians in the same zone after finishing a zone invasion, surviving only because I was able to outrun them (Archon/Dominator/?). Some of my worst memories of any mmorpg are also in Rift, both PvE and PvP. In respect to PvP, I remember watching the videos before Rift launched and getting into the headstart then seeing Trion continue to fail to deliver PvP as they stated in their Dev Videos (they may yet be on YouTube) over the months I played and I remember the nonsense of griefing zone invasions because, despite what the lore indicates, Trion did not use built-in functionality to turn off PvP in PvP zones during an active zone invasion.

    Now I've returned and a lot has changed. Quests to obtain souls are gone and players are given a combination of 3 souls at character creation and can change them as they please early on. Trainers don't do much of anything at all now since abilities scale with you, yet trainers are still labelled trainers. Pet classes actually have really, really cool looking pets now. Fishing and Survivalism offer a meaningful way to buff your character, find artefacts and are done better than fishing and cooking in several other mmorpgs I've played.

    There's also plenty of other things I haven't mentioned or even seen yet, but I think my point is taken: I left with some great memories of Rift but was ultimately very, very dissatisfied with the direction Trion took with Rift and now I'm returning to see some new things to be dissatisfied with but some really serious improvements on things that previously pushed me away.

    The one question I have now is about the state of PvP, both in the open world and 'instanced' PvP. There is only one PvP shard now when several used to exist, so I'm left to wonder if there is any way for someone who enjoys PvP to find it in Rift. Specifically:

    -did Trion do anything, anything at all to fix PvP griefing during zone invasions in contested zones;
    -is Conquest (I hear that it's currently disabled for whatever reason) more than 'just another warfront';
    -do warfronts take long to queue for between the levels (this is meant to be a general question that can be answered by addressing level ranges) and do players in them actually listen to people legitimately trying to lead;
    -is the trek to higher-end PvP gear still ridiculous compared to higher-end PvE gear;
    -is there anything else that people who enjoy PvP believe I should know about the state of PvP in Rift?

    Rift has changed and traces of what it was supposed to be still remain for those of use who know where to look and remember. I've come back to Rift accepting that it is not the same game that I played when I left and that the lore of the game, the deep abiding chasm between the Guardians and the Defiants, has been buried by the Dev team. I don't want to stick around on Seastone just because of nostalgia, because I really enjoyed several of my world-PvP encounters when Rift was a very different game. At the same time, I don't want to leave Seastone just because PvP is still (potentially) a very real issue. I play a Defiant because I enjoy the core of what they stand for and I enjoy dispensing with stray Guardians, keeping some of the old Rift alive.

    A lot of people forget that Rift isn't just about the planar invasions, but the ideological chasm between the Guardians and the Defiants.


    Damn, that was a bit of a ramble. Please forgive it and, if possible, take a shot at answering my questions. All serious responses are appreciated.


  2. #2
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrump View Post

    -did Trion do anything, anything at all to fix PvP griefing during zone invasions in contested zones;
    -is Conquest (I hear that it's currently disabled for whatever reason) more than 'just another warfront';
    -do warfronts take long to queue for between the levels (this is meant to be a general question that can be answered by addressing level ranges) and do players in them actually listen to people legitimately trying to lead;
    -is the trek to higher-end PvP gear still ridiculous compared to higher-end PvE gear;
    -is there anything else that people who enjoy PvP believe I should know about the state of PvP in Rift?
    1. Not sure what you mean by the first one. On PvP servers you are flagged and can die at any moment from a player. On PvE servers you choose to flag.

    2. CQ is nothing like Wfs. It earns a different currency for different items and has 3 teams going at once. Closest comparison is a 3-way codex with more cap points the size of Sillmoor - with a slightly different rule set. In a nutshell.

    3. 50+ bracket is probably very active. 60 pvp is very active. Haven't seen less than 50 in long enough to know.

    4. Not sure the treks are worth making lateral comparisons over. The top notch PvE gear requires an organized raid guild progressing through the games top end content on a frequent basis, getting content on farm status, and loot gets distributed. PvP gear is more mathematically progressive (optimally) once you pass rank 69. You get an influx of tokens at a limited rate. It is smooth and makes it so the gear isn't bought up over night. In the end it should provide worthy advantage but not make you game breaking against opponents. But, comparing pve and pvp gear progression is two different machines. You do it totally different. If you have a leet guild, might get stuff from raids faster. If your guild is the suck, might get from pvp faster

    5. You enjoy it or don't enjoy it. Everyone has their own opinion. You can either let others/accumulation of others be yours, or just sub a month, play, and have your own. Some here want to leave pvp, some want it better, some enjoy it just fine the way it is. No way to tell which one of those types you would be. I enjoy it, but I don't think you'd care to hear why. It's just a personal opinion list.
    Last edited by Violacea; 01-01-2013 at 05:43 PM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
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  3. #3
    General of Telara littlepoit's Avatar
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    -did Trion do anything, anything at all to fix PvP griefing during zone invasions in contested zones;
    no but PVP servers are pretty much gone (at least in EU). what you call griefing was a part i enjoyed a lot while pvp servers were active. it's a matter of taste i belive

    -is Conquest (I hear that it's currently disabled for whatever reason) more than 'just another warfront';
    i wish it was just another warfront , right now it's an alternative to hell...... scratch that i would probably chose hell over CQ.

    -do warfronts take long to queue for between the levels (this is meant to be a general question that can be answered by addressing level ranges) and do players in them actually listen to people legitimately trying to lead;
    pop time is awesome.
    people will listen to a lead as long as he is not being a jerk :

    - "you morons this map is called codex, not vault !" > will probably not work
    - "i'm going to codex , need backup" > usually works


    -is the trek to higher-end PvP gear still ridiculous compared to higher-end PvE gear;
    it absolutely is .... but it's pretty irrelevant since the difference between the higher and lower pvp set is not that crazy... the bolstering system trion put in place is pretty good as well, it keeps pvp well and alive. so no worries on this side

    -is there anything else that people who enjoy PvP believe I should know about the state of PvP in Rift?

    damage output is pretty crazy at 60.
    did i mention CQ is terrible ? if not ,please let me remind you that playing curling with no ice in the summer is a lot more fun than CQ.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    -did Trion do anything, anything at all to fix PvP griefing during zone invasions in contested zones;
    -is Conquest (I hear that it's currently disabled for whatever reason) more than 'just another warfront';
    -do warfronts take long to queue for between the levels (this is meant to be a general question that can be answered by addressing level ranges) and do players in them actually listen to people legitimately trying to lead;
    -is the trek to higher-end PvP gear still ridiculous compared to higher-end PvE gear;
    -is there anything else that people who enjoy PvP believe I should know about the state of PvP in Rift?
    1) on a pvp shard anything can happen.

    2)CQ is not disabled, though many wish it was. Teams are horribly unbalanced (players per team) Currently, afkers sit in Dominion base to collect free CQ power...Oath wins *sometimes*
    And nightfall wins the majority of the time. Almost always.

    3)I haven't found the queue time to be too long in any brackets.

    4)Yes.

    5)Currently burst is extremely high, while healing is subpar (compared to the burst)

    PVP is pretty much all ranged now. Very few melee in wf's anymore.
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  5. #5
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    You will get a variety of answers, as stated already. Best way to put it, though, is that the same ability to churn out your unique builds exist, as well as the same cookie cutter builds that people are discovering, so the fun of your character is still there.

    Trion seems to look at pvp perhaps (perhaps) 10% of the time they look at pve. Its money is on pve'rs, so its a business and a business will cater to the money making machine (pve'rs).

    Storm Legion created a whole new overhaul of things and as such totally whacked pvp in the face, spreading good/bad across the face of the universe. The result is what we have so if you play bad you will get really frustrated. Good thing is you can learn and adapt, but depending on what calling you have currently you will be limited to certain things depending. A good example is if you are a warrior you either a) are ranged tempest or b) a tank.

    Gear disparity is smaller, so even if you casual pvp its a great thing. If you pvp all the time and want greater gear disparity to have a lot bigger advantage over casual players its a bad thing. I think, overall, its a good thing and we wont end up with a select group of pvpers and thats it with no one else daring to try (discouraged due to no real chance and grinding forever to get on equal gear).

    Currently melee is almost impossible without a pocket healer due to the burst of certain builds. Healing is also about equal (now) with burst due to a bug; ergo if they fix the bug healing will be majorly subpar and, as happened about 2 weeks ago, no one was healing it sucked (can't even keep myself alive vs. 1 dps let alone a group). Who wants to play bandaid when you can become a cannon like everyone else? That's what was happening.

    Things will probably change, just not very fast. Trion, again, concentrates on PVE. PVP is not a big portion of the money making machine. It is what it is.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched TheGrump's Avatar
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    The responses thus far have been quite helpful and I appreciate them. I would like to address two points, for those who read this, since we'll never be able to edit our posts.

    (1)
    On a PvP shard you are flagged for PvP, however in Controlled zones you are safe so long as you don't attack and your side controls that zone (e.g. Freemarch). If you engage in PvP in a Contested zone and manage to run back to a Controlled zone that is safe, you will eventually 'unflag.' This means that, even on a PvP shard, Trion has the functionality to turn off/on PvP on a zone basis and a character basis.

    Now, to the next part. Part of the original lore was that there was such an ideological chasm between the Guardians and Defiants that they would kill one another on sight, period. However, there were times when they would reluctantly band together to overcome planar forces...for a very brief time.

    When we pull together the functionality in the first part with the lore of the second part, there was and is no reason that, on PvP shards, Trion cannot disable PvP for the entirety of a zone invasion in that particular zone. Further, Trion can enable a flag decay mechanic similar to the one that is already in place but much small to make both the lore and the purpose of the PvP shard have teeth.

    This is the thing that I lament. It's not so simple as 'it's a PvP shard,' it's a matter of the integrity of the lore in a RPG that has a real PvP element.

    (2)
    I thoroughly enjoy the challenge of PvP. Not bunny-hopping. Not macroed hot keys because you can and it's viable. Not every ability or potion bound to a hot key to get around GCD because you can and it's viable. I enjoy the challenge of thoughtful, twitch-based PvP.

    I enjoy closing rifts and defeating planar invasions more.

    Based on the responses I have received, all of which were quite helpful, it seems to me that I should strongly consider transferring to another shard once my character reaches level 40. But, at the same time, I should play on the shard that I'm on and see what that experience is like. If the world PvP that I enjoyed turns out to be next to non-existant or I find what I call 'PvP griefing' happening during zone invasions I should transfer, but I'll see how things go first.
    --------

    Thanks again to all of the folks that responded to this thread. It helped me immensely.


  7. #7
    General of Telara littlepoit's Avatar
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    honestly it looks like you don't appreciate PvP enough to play on a open pvp shard, what you call griefing is part of the pvp fun , so yes i would strongly advise you to transfer to a pve server where PvP is on demand only and attached to a context (CQ , WF)

    edit : bunny hoping is part of the kiting dynamic i see no wrong in doing it !
    Last edited by littlepoit; 01-01-2013 at 07:20 PM.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    you will definitely be more at home on a pve shard.

    at level 60, zone events are an invitation to pvp, not a reason to stop pvping.

    if you want to hold hands and make friends while farming pve content, seastone is not the shard for you.

    however, if you want to break heads and slaughter friends while dodging pve content, seastone has a sword for you.

    but since your here already, might as well enjoy it.

    Seastone: putting the Laughter back into Slaughter!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara Dee Dee's Avatar
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    - regarding the Pvp shards are dead, pve and pvp players are mixed together, you can find some flagged players during IA’s at lower levels, and the occasional pvp during rift events in high levels; you get kicked out of raid, in the moment you engage in combat, also the fps drops too low in boss encounter, pvp slow motion ability lag

    - In warfronts you meet and group with players that like this play style, they know the map and basics of the game, also have gained some experience in how to win the game; most of them do not need marking, also they have some handy specs made for particular roles, they carry stones, they steal, they defend some objectives, etc, they never ask for healer, or dps or support, just happy they get cover when trying to go for objectives or defending a particular area , and some short messages in chat can make people cope together; there are also some that have set in mind a pve team style, with tanks, healers and fruity minstrels that follow you around and are singing to you, these teams have success in warfronts like black garden, and library because of the map and team composition mostly.

    - conquest is more pve style, probably made with guild vs guild in mind, and we do not have pvp guilds, guilds interested in making conquest raids; many factors like: no experienced leaders, unfinished raid frames , time to down an extractor, time spent away from group, no information about all faction location, people ” scared” to engage in pvp, made conquest an unpleasant experience, for both pvp oriented players and non pvp ones; gameplay is not pve and pvp, is pvp and nonpvp

    - queues are longer in low levels, and reach almost instant grouping at max level; leveling is faster outside warfronts, you reach max level fast , the real experience comes after you max your level
    - max Rank PvP is indestructible , bolstering is a good thing in warfronts

    - expert SL dungeons and raids require double stats than used to be before SL ;is this good? is this bad?

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