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Thread: Just wanted to say...

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Genovah's Avatar
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    Default Just wanted to say...

    Thank you Trion.. I have not had this much fun pvping in any game for awhile. Out of all the mmorpgs that I've played since 2004 Rift is without a doubt my favorite. I believe you guys have done a great if not the best job you could do with pvp considering the nightmare it must be trying to make things as balanced as they can be, but more importantly making each class individually unique and flat out fun to play.

    Coming from a mage's perspective I believe things are fine the way they are. People complain about so and so being op about so and so class, but the thing is you can pick out every class and find something so called "OP". If you start adjusting the "noticeable things" then that will ruin the excitement I personally have in pvp atm, that "move" to be wary of.

    In aion battles would end in just moments depending on what class you were, but assasins for example, use to be able to at one point stunlock you from full 100 to 0 and there was nothing you could do about it and it all happened in a matter of a few seconds. At least in this game that is not going to happen without exception. Aion's pvp was insanely fast pace, but Rift's pvp is just right.

    People always want to be stronger than every other class whether its in group pvp or in 1v1 duels, although I would like to advocate that this game's pvp is revolved around group pvp we can talk about 1v1. If this game was revolved around a rock paper system insert 4th _______ then I believe you guys have done a great job, if not then its still great. If mages are truly weak to rogues although I know I give rogues a run for their money with the proper spec then thats fine because we crush other classes (rogues/assasins were always meant to be the get in get the kill and get out class if I'm not correct).

    I have always seen mages as more than just a "damaging class" and in this game mages are just that. A properly played Dominator can contribute alot more than any other class can in the field so thank you and I love you for having access to such a tactical class that makes the player thinks and be aware of controlling the casters from across the field, or squirreling/sapping the energy of the melee dps that are jumping your healers, to dealing massive aoe dmg to a group clustered together. This is something I believe to be very unique and specific to the mage class.

    Anyways, I could ramble and go on and on, but I just wanted to say thanks again. You have done a great job and I wouldn't change a thing. I know that it always comes down to money and what keeps the players playing, but I believe you guys have made rift what you visioned it to be and it's awesome!

    All I want to ask to the players is, do you really want a slow pace or fast pace combat?
    Do you know all the strength's and weaknesses about your class?
    About other class?
    Do you know what you want?
    Are you sure about that?

    Also I want to mention that if people want to maximize their performance in pvp, have you been using rift consumable's, pots, movement speed enhancers, everything else.

    From my experience with rift since day one, I don't believe players have even came close to exploring rift's full potential pvp wise because what tops everything else out on the field is brains.

    Rift - your options are not limited.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Baramos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genovah View Post
    If this game was revolved around a rock paper system insert 4th _______ then I believe you guys have done a great job, if not then its still great.
    Rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock
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  3. #3
    Ascendant Fujitasix's Avatar
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    Personal preferences are going to be different for everyone, but I think Rift PvP is playing a bit too fast right now.

    I agree that maintaining the incredibly fun flexibility of the soul system is priority one - no other game has ever made me feel like I'm building my character to perform exactly how it want it to. However, you'll have outliers that outperform other builds to an extent that they become a requirement to be competitive. In those cases, there should be community outcry, screenshots, video evidence, and suggestions for tweaks.

    Fortunately *most* of the vocal people on the PvP forum are interested in balanced combat, and many will even voice concern when their own class has a significant advantage with a certain build. Trion has been very responsive to these sorts of issues in the past, and I have no doubt that PvP will incrementally improve with the passing months after this major shakeup from SL restructuring.

    It's still fun, but we're not close to 1.8 balance imo. With the holidays behind us, hopefully we'll see Trion back to their diligent patch cycle.
    Currently playing Beermaid lvl 65 War

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Genovah's Avatar
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    Well you cant really do anything about personal preference, but how do you balance things? How can you give and take away so everyone is happy? What is considered balanced anyways?

    You cant have it all in rift.. if you want more of something you have to sacrifice something.
    It all depends on what you are trying to achieve.

    You want to be competitive, but in what field? In dps? healing? crowd control?

    Are you going for top st dps or st burst damage or aoe burst or top aoe dps?

    You are right that some builds outperform others, but I believe that there is a build and a soul that was specifically designed to be the best at something for each individual class. Then you can adjust things a little further.

    If damage in pvp was nerfed then healing would have to be nerfed to (from a healers perspective), or you could buff healing but then you might end up having to buff damage.

    Every class has that move or two that people will consider overpowered, but maybe its not necessarily overpowered, no, its just what makes that class-soul-build worth playing.

    I believe there is a counter for everything in this game and developers know what they are, its just players have to discover what they are, do a little research etc.

    Once a single player has played every class and experimented with all the different souls and tested things out in as many situations possible from different angles etc etc then one can start making calls on what is fair and not fair.

    I could look at abilities of my own class and pick and choose what I think is overpowered, but then I think a little further on how it can be countered, stopped or prevented.

    People can call out what they think is overpowered about they're class, but if a class has something good(overpowered), then it is justified by other classes having something good too.

    In the end the only thing that is truly overpowered is the Brain and using it! Same goes for sports!

  5. #5
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    I generally have a good time when I Pvp. Thanks much for making a thread not whining~
    New round up of some high rank matches
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  6. #6
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    Good thread, Genovah. I've been enjoying pvp a lot lately, too.

    As a warrior, though, I wish they'd bring back my OPness.

  7. #7
    General of Telara Ashh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genovah View Post
    Thank you Trion.. I have not had this much fun pvping in any game for awhile. Out of all the mmorpgs that I've played since 2004 Rift is without a doubt my favorite. I believe you guys have done a great if not the best job you could do with pvp considering the nightmare it must be trying to make things as balanced as they can be, but more importantly making each class individually unique and flat out fun to play.

    Coming from a mage's perspective I believe things are fine the way they are. People complain about so and so being op about so and so class, but the thing is you can pick out every class and find something so called "OP". If you start adjusting the "noticeable things" then that will ruin the excitement I personally have in pvp atm, that "move" to be wary of.

    In aion battles would end in just moments depending on what class you were, but assasins for example, use to be able to at one point stunlock you from full 100 to 0 and there was nothing you could do about it and it all happened in a matter of a few seconds. At least in this game that is not going to happen without exception. Aion's pvp was insanely fast pace, but Rift's pvp is just right.

    People always want to be stronger than every other class whether its in group pvp or in 1v1 duels, although I would like to advocate that this game's pvp is revolved around group pvp we can talk about 1v1. If this game was revolved around a rock paper system insert 4th _______ then I believe you guys have done a great job, if not then its still great. If mages are truly weak to rogues although I know I give rogues a run for their money with the proper spec then thats fine because we crush other classes (rogues/assasins were always meant to be the get in get the kill and get out class if I'm not correct).

    I have always seen mages as more than just a "damaging class" and in this game mages are just that. A properly played Dominator can contribute alot more than any other class can in the field so thank you and I love you for having access to such a tactical class that makes the player thinks and be aware of controlling the casters from across the field, or squirreling/sapping the energy of the melee dps that are jumping your healers, to dealing massive aoe dmg to a group clustered together. This is something I believe to be very unique and specific to the mage class.

    Anyways, I could ramble and go on and on, but I just wanted to say thanks again. You have done a great job and I wouldn't change a thing. I know that it always comes down to money and what keeps the players playing, but I believe you guys have made rift what you visioned it to be and it's awesome!

    All I want to ask to the players is, do you really want a slow pace or fast pace combat?
    Do you know all the strength's and weaknesses about your class?
    About other class?
    Do you know what you want?
    Are you sure about that?

    Also I want to mention that if people want to maximize their performance in pvp, have you been using rift consumable's, pots, movement speed enhancers, everything else.

    From my experience with rift since day one, I don't believe players have even came close to exploring rift's full potential pvp wise because what tops everything else out on the field is brains.

    Rift - your options are not limited.


    I like Rift PvP too!

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Genovah's Avatar
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    well I'm glad I'm not the only one who is happy with rift pvp as a mage at least.. just feel like sharing some positive feedback/vibe and try to reason with people and make them think differently about certain aspects of the game's pvp before trion ends up trying to do what the "vocal majority" say and in return ruining something that did not need to be messed with.

    Its like politics, the ones who vote or say anything are the ones who cause changes that affect the ones that just play the game as is then find out a certain change is coming and they end up quitting lol

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser Avind's Avatar
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    Still enjoying it as much as that 1st level 10 black garden

    Happy new year rift!


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  10. #10
    Ascendant Fujitasix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genovah View Post
    snip...

    You want to be competitive, but in what field? In dps? healing? crowd control?

    Are you going for top st dps or st burst damage or aoe burst or top aoe dps?

    You are right that some builds outperform others, but I believe that there is a build and a soul that was specifically designed to be the best at something for each individual class. Then you can adjust things a little further.

    If damage in pvp was nerfed then healing would have to be nerfed to (from a healers perspective), or you could buff healing but then you might end up having to buff damage.

    Every class has that move or two that people will consider overpowered, but maybe its not necessarily overpowered, no, its just what makes that class-soul-build worth playing.

    I believe there is a counter for everything in this game and developers know what they are, its just players have to discover what they are, do a little research etc.

    snip...
    This is precisely why I play all 4 classes and try a whole lot of roles. I had extensive time at max rank with all of my characters previously and advocated for what I thought was both overboard and also too weak.

    I have the games best interests in mind, and fairly often it's a L2P issue (for me too as I switch classes and reprogram my brain for keybinds), but you'll see certain items blatantly out of line that need to be fixed.

    You're definitely right in giving Trion props for fun PvP. With the flexibility we have, they've done a remarkable job.
    Currently playing Beermaid lvl 65 War

  11. #11
    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    What is considered balanced anyways?
    Well dying in 3 GBC isn't balanced.

    Lately the pvp has been pissing me off. I just find myself getting annoyed/angry...when the game is supposed to be fun.

    It's not fun anymore, at least for me.

    The xpac has been a huge letdown. I'm so glad I didn't buy a year long sub.
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  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Genovah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misun View Post
    Well dying in 3 GBC isn't balanced.

    Lately the pvp has been pissing me off. I just find myself getting annoyed/angry...when the game is supposed to be fun.

    It's not fun anymore, at least for me.

    The xpac has been a huge letdown. I'm so glad I didn't buy a year long sub.
    lol I know you will say this is not aion, but in aion, when I played, a mage could kill you in one spell that is normally a 2 second cast unless you have spell cast speed which could literally bump it down to instant cast lol but that has a 1hr cooldown and there was a cost to using this move

    now onto my point

    You say they kill you in 3 GCB, but there is more to it.

    Lets take a look at pyromancer for example
    A pyromancers damage with fulminate (12kish crits) and fullisade that are around the same dmg and countdown whatever it hits for relies on their stacks of combust on the target.

    So after 5 stacks of combust, thats where the real damage comes in, they will line up a countdown fireball or X2 fireball and a fulminate to hit at the same time followed by a fullisade afterwards. You might think this is overpowered, but I beg to differ.

    Let me explain.
    Aside from cooldowns you have to build up the necessary charge to pull this off and build up stacks of combust this takes time basically you cannot do this right off the bat, you must setup for it.

    Once you have or close enough to the necessary charge the player you are trying to destroy has plenty of time to react proved that they are, now listen closely, paying attention to their "Debuffs."

    Its as easy as either
    1. Be cleansed, countdown and combust can be cleansed, a rogue can use cleanse soul and the mages effort is for nothing. There are also pots you can use to cleanse yourself, heal yourself, rift consumables to stun and get away or items that grant you 20% reflect or 15% movement speed and 50% movement speed

    2. If you see you are being focused just pull back, the player will target some1 else. I see so many players being focused and taking damage and they just sit there.. idk why.

    3. If you are not near frontline and that player is extending him or herself to get to you blame the team not the system.

    Pyromancer is mages top st burst class, but there is a catch, there always is.

    I cant say much for other classes, but having a 51 rogue myself you still have to setup for these burst kills. You need the combo points and the right buffs up for them to do that crazy burst dmg.

    As for stealth rogues popping up and killing you in a matter of seconds that is what they are designed for lol

    What would be the point of sneaking up behind a raid or group of players and trying to take out their healer if the healer could just sit there while you whack at him and continue healing his team. What you want him to take 6 GBC's? 6 seconds? hes never going to kill anything

    If he doesn't take out the healer fast enough, hes going to get jumped (hopefully if people pay attention) and taken out, but aha ! slip away and try again

    Is that not what rogues,stealth,assasination is all about? Get the job done before anybody notices because once they do you'll have an army on your ***

    Got to play carefully, being aware is key to survival and BE PREPARED.

    Just be glad there are GBC's to accomodate for lag etc where as other hardcore pvp games dont have a global cooldown and you really need to be on your toes

  13. #13
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    What level is your mage. I read the first post and said to myself, "this guy plays a rogue." Best thing i can say about your post is I'm certain through the various patches and updates different main specs were saying "gee this is pretty balanced and wow I'm doing good!" I.e warriors pre sl could have made a post just like yours. If you didn't play a warrior though, you had a seriously different point of view. Im also assuming by your pyro example (which by the way in threads i only mention pyro and dom as needing looked at for mage which are the only two you mention), that you don't heal. Thats another point of view to look at. Aion isn't a good example of pvp at all. It had more options for cosmetics then character builds. Rift is 100% better, i agree. Perhaps after hitting 60, getting used to how things work more in a tier you will play in end game over and over, you will get a better view of if things are balanced or what could be tweaked. Tweaked meaning small adjustments, not entire overhauls.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Fujitasix's Avatar
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    I think the balance quibbles are more about Nysyr's ticking for 7k and able to be instantly reset to do it again, and a rogue support role dumping 22k in two attacks. Those sorta things need looked at.
    Currently playing Beermaid lvl 65 War

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Genovah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fujitasix View Post
    I think the balance quibbles are more about Nysyr's ticking for 7k and able to be instantly reset to do it again, and a rogue support role dumping 22k in two attacks. Those sorta things need looked at.
    yeah they suck and can get you, but idk from clerics standpoint dont have one just wonder if that spec/build would be worth anything if the tics did much less.

    Still its not like there is nothing you can do about it, interrupt silences los etc everything else they throw on you can be cleansed I believe

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