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Thread: proposed valor normalization

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    Ascendant dday's Avatar
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    Default proposed valor normalization

    Please read trion

    I have played since beta and love this game but currently pvp is terrible, for the first time ever i dont want to play. here is a a simple solution that i think works best for everyone

    calculate a base valor amount for all players, remove it from gear and normalize it. this solves the problem for too much damage in general in pvp. This also solves the problem of PVP nerfs not affecting PVE. If everyone gets this base valor at all times then open world pvp becomes balanced along with wfs.

    In order to make pvp gear worth it buff vengence and its affect on a player. For example make valor so high that without vengence a player would be at a disadvantage in PVE gear. This would make PVP gear > Then pve gear in PVP.

    This IMO would fix pvp and create a solid foundation to balance other abilities.

    Please like if you agree

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    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    Or just remove it all together.

    It reminds me an awful lot of when they added resilience to the pvp gear in WoW. It seemed as though pvp took a massive dump after that.
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    are you talking about Warfronts or Open-world PvP?

    In WFs, everyone entering gets now bolstered to the mercenary set, on a piece-by-piece basis, if their gear has less valour on it than the equivalent mercenary set. This means that a: there is already a floor to the minimum valour, and everyone has it; and b: people with better gear - ie raiders - get their gear stats *reduced* to the level of the equivalent mercenary set. So valour normalisation is already here.

    If you're talking about OPvP, then two contradictory thoughts spring to mind: a, the point of OPvP is *always* its uneven and unequal nature: is your gear better than the other person? do they have more friends than you? do they have more staying power than you? That's what it is. And b: OPvP is functionally extinct in Rift, since 1.11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naesraen View Post
    are you talking about Warfronts or Open-world PvP?

    In WFs, everyone entering gets now bolstered to the mercenary set, on a piece-by-piece basis, if their gear has less valour on it than the equivalent mercenary set. This means that a: there is already a floor to the minimum valour, and everyone has it; and b: people with better gear - ie raiders - get their gear stats *reduced* to the level of the equivalent mercenary set. So valour normalisation is already here.

    If you're talking about OPvP, then two contradictory thoughts spring to mind: a, the point of OPvP is *always* its uneven and unequal nature: is your gear better than the other person? do they have more friends than you? do they have more staying power than you? That's what it is. And b: OPvP is functionally extinct in Rift, since 1.11
    Im talking about both, and i agree with you about gear being important so thats why i said that vengence needs to play a more significant role so that gear matters. having base valor helps with balanacing damage without messing with PVE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misun View Post
    Or just remove it all together.

    It reminds me an awful lot of when they added resilience to the pvp gear in WoW. It seemed as though pvp took a massive dump after that.
    If you remove it then PVE gear becomes better then PVP gear with procs and what not. Make valor very high so that vengence is required to do damage/heal effectively. I never played WOW so i cant speak to that if they did something similar and it didnt work out. I just feel like damage is way to high and instead of nerfing individual abilites just buff valor and buff vengence so PVP is an acutal advantage in PVP.

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    All I can say is, I was already on the top end of the spectrum by the time they introduced bolstering. I leveling up my pvp toon during the era of progressive valor stats on gear and no bolstering in sight. All I can say is what in Gods name did you cry babies get done to Rift by having bolstering introduced. It is such a whack and annoying system that just confuses it seems. I had way more fun leveling against progressive valor and actually earning my first set of pvp gear piece by piece (not pseudo bolster till I get it). Way to go cry babies who couldn't endure playing the game for 5 days to get gear at max level. Now we have this goofy system in our game for good.

    It is all a mess. It was easier when it was simple as can be and cry babies weren't catered to.

    You pvp with the stats your gear has. Wow - that is simplistic!
    Last edited by Violacea; 12-03-2012 at 10:46 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dday View Post
    Please read trion

    I have played since beta and love this game but currently pvp is terrible, for the first time ever i dont want to play. here is a a simple solution that i think works best for everyone

    calculate a base valor amount for all players, remove it from gear and normalize it. this solves the problem for too much damage in general in pvp. This also solves the problem of PVP nerfs not affecting PVE. If everyone gets this base valor at all times then open world pvp becomes balanced along with wfs.

    In order to make pvp gear worth it buff vengence and its affect on a player. For example make valor so high that without vengence a player would be at a disadvantage in PVE gear. This would make PVP gear > Then pve gear in PVP.

    This IMO would fix pvp and create a solid foundation to balance other abilities.

    Please like if you agree
    this is quite exactly how it works lol ... now you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    All I can say is, I was already on the top end of the spectrum by the time they introduced bolstering. I leveling up my pvp toon during the era of progressive valor stats on gear and no bolstering in sight. All I can say is what in Gods name did you cry babies get done to Rift by having bolstering introduced. It is such a whack and annoying system that just confuses it seems. I had way more fun leveling against progressive valor and actually earning my first set of pvp gear piece by piece (not pseudo bolster till I get it). Way to go cry babies who couldn't endure playing the game for 5 days to get gear at max level. Now we have this goofy system in our game for good.

    It is all a mess. It was easier when it was simple as can be and cry babies weren't catered to.

    You pvp with the stats your gear has. Wow - that is simplistic!
    the funny thing is, the cry babies still cry cause they dont even understand the new system catering to them so much ^^ (its because they still die, because they just bad players, and unfortunatly trion has not find a way till now to fix bad players ^^)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    All I can say is, I was already on the top end of the spectrum by the time they introduced bolstering. I leveling up my pvp toon during the era of progressive valor stats on gear and no bolstering in sight. All I can say is what in Gods name did you cry babies get done to Rift by having bolstering introduced. It is such a whack and annoying system that just confuses it seems. I had way more fun leveling against progressive valor and actually earning my first set of pvp gear piece by piece (not pseudo bolster till I get it). Way to go cry babies who couldn't endure playing the game for 5 days to get gear at max level. Now we have this goofy system in our game for good.

    It is all a mess. It was easier when it was simple as can be and cry babies weren't catered to.

    You pvp with the stats your gear has. Wow - that is simplistic!
    i think u are misreading what i say, if you currently have fun in pvp then you are a bad...there is 0 skill involved with the amount of damage being done, max gear or not. Instead of trying to balance every ability in the game since every class is putting out way to much damage simply apply a valor buff to everything. Also i prefer to beat people on skill not straight gear. providing vengence and better base stats would still give the gear advantage that most want including myself, especially over pve gear. However to make balancing and pvp viable again the simple solution would be fixing valor to greater reduce damage so that a team has to do something different then stand back and nuke. also by making this normalized you could identify what abilities are doing way to much damage still. if anyone is enjoying pvp right now then i have no words for that person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos View Post
    this is quite exactly how it works lol ... now you?
    its not working, valor is too low and damage is way to high....what are your solutions, keep things the way the are and have 0 skill involved in PVP? And my name is in my sig i will glady dual any one that wants to judge my talent. I dont claim to be the best but i know how to pvp and have since day one of this game and no person with a straight face can say this is fun or skilled

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos View Post
    the funny thing is, the cry babies still cry cause they dont even understand the new system catering to them so much ^^ (its because they still die, because they just bad players, and unfortunatly trion has not find a way till now to fix bad players ^^)
    And im not a cry baby, i can kill something in 5 secs with tempest, thats not skill its stupid. i like competition and i like having to work together as a team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dday View Post
    its not working, valor is too low and damage is way to high....what are your solutions, keep things the way the are and have 0 skill involved in PVP? And my name is in my sig i will glady dual any one that wants to judge my talent. I dont claim to be the best but i know how to pvp and have since day one of this game and no person with a straight face can say this is fun or skilled
    Everybody knows how to PvP bro, its called "you press buttons."
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    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    Everybody knows how to PvP bro, its called "you press buttons."
    right now sadly thats all it is..blow your cds and player x is dead, no defense no healing no melee...its the only time since launch that i dislike to the point of not playing

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    the problem that right now, the damage is a bit to high, has NOTHING to do with the normalisation or the gear progression.

    reduction is 68% dont know how much more you need? back to the days 2 clerics are incinvible?

    the problem is that trion tries to balance through shere figures and not through mechanics. you cant balance pvp with that, especially if you force people into 10vs10 up to 20vs20 warfronts. you need mechanics that work in when player numbers go up. Basically that is limiting AOE effects so they get dmg capped at some point. (Heal and DMG). e.g. make AOE healing not heal the one casting it, make the healer do a decision healing himself or others.

    right now all trion does is reduce healing figures to balance, but it wont work. with 1 healer healing is much to low, with 3 clerics healing is fine and ttk goes up significantly.

    next: i think trion already balanced around max equip, where pvp players will have like 50% more health then now, you then need the damage or nothing will die!

    its not that easy how you describe it "put up valor and be done" NO you wont be done, you will have the vice versa problems in 3 weeks ...
    Last edited by Antigonos; 12-03-2012 at 11:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos View Post
    the problem that right now, the damage is a bit to high, has NOTHING to do with the normalisation or the gear progression.

    reduction is 68% dont know how much more you need? back to the days 2 clerics are incinvible?

    the problem is that trion tries to balance through shere figures and not through mechanics. you cant balance pvp with that, especially if you force people into 10vs10 up to 20vs20 warfronts. you need mechanics that work in when player numbers go up. Basically that is limiting AOE effects so they get dmg capped at some point. (Heal and DMG). e.g. make AOE healing not heal the one casting it, make the healer do a decision healing himself or others.

    right now all trion does is reduce healing figures to balance, but it wont work. with 1 healer healing is much to low, with 3 clerics healing is fine and ttk goes up significantly.

    next: i think trion already balanced around max equip, where pvp players will have like 50% more health then now, you then need the damage or nothing will die!

    its not that easy how you describe it "put up valor and be done" NO you wont be done, you will have the vice versa problems in 3 weeks ...
    Im not saying your normalize all gear, just valor. the problem that pvpers dont get is pve comes first and when you mess with buffs nerfs to pvp it stirs up a bees nest in pve. Make vengence account for much more so that it cancels out some of the valor buffs and makes pvp gear>pve gear.

    And you wont have the reverse problem if u make vengence scale, therefor at max level you do more damage. The problem with now is damage is set for max level making bottom level pvp impossible to play. when someone has max level gear they will have an advantage on low level players which is how it should be since they put the time in, however it will provide for balance against other max level players. Right now the same geared players kill eachother entirely too fast with no skill. If you buff healing like i hear people saying then healers become gods and a must in every wf which is also a problem.

    the only solution in my mind is to normalize valor and make vengence account for more of your damage as you rank up in pvp.

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