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Thread: Vengence vs Crit Power

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    Ascendant Oblivion333's Avatar
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    Default Vengence vs Crit Power

    Does anyone know the difference between Crit Power and Vengeance. I'm noticing that PvE gear offers Crit Power oppose to Vengeance. For PvP which is more important? Vengeance or Crit power?
    Last edited by Oblivion333; 11-30-2012 at 01:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblivion333 View Post
    Does anyone know the difference between Crit Power and Vengeance. I'm noticing that PvE gear offers Crit Power oppose to Vengeance. For PvP which is more important? Vengeance or Crit power?
    In PVP the Vengeance is added to your attack /spell power and it is ignored in PVE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblivion333 View Post
    Does anyone know the difference between Crit Power and Vengeance. I'm noticing that PvE gear offers Crit Power oppose to Vengeance. For PvP which is more important? Vengeance or Crit power?
    ...

    How about you enter a warfront and take a look at your stats with PvE gear on.

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    Icw
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    Im also curious about this. Valor adds onto attack power. So what's the math. I really hope it's not:

    1 Attack Power = 1 Vengeance

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    Crit power is like the old talents souls used to have more. Increases critical hit damage etc. Crit bonus I like to call it.

    To be honest, in Eq2 Crit Bonus was introduced when a 100% crit cap was more realistic. As a top DPS'er I know it was near DPS suicide to start using crit bonus in place of more consistent stats if you had less than 75 - 80% crit chance. We are sporting 10 - 20% crit chance. Never in years in Eq2, as a former class lead, would I tell players to touch crit bonus before they start getting near cap, and to stick near the regular stats.

    I feel like vengeance is probably better. Only paradox is I would have to figure how weighted our "ap/sp" was compared to eq2's "spell damage or base damage". The later option does make a difference, but, I wager the consistent stats are still king. But still, nobody was even thinking about touching crit bonus even at crit rates of 50%. It just lowered your DPS and performance overall. In this case, it isn't even close. We are 10 - 20%. So in the end, in my mind, I feel crit power is really kind of junky at the moment with other options that don't have caps in sight.

    Also vengeance works way more properly now. Ie. talents that increase AP/SP now increase vengeance. And in turn I assume talents that increase ap/sp contribution are using vengeance now too. So crit bonus does probably have the best damage return (when you crit that is...) but, SP/AP play a way more consistent role. There are many abilities and talents that cause SP/AP to be a compound effect of a stat. Things that give player contribution based on AP value, or talents that increase AP contribution to a certain ability etc. I think those combined with are horrendously low crit chances make crit power a no-go for pvp for now.

    It could be my reaction to where I am used to crit bonus but. People in Eq2 would laugh at anyone who even considered getting crit bonus before 50 - 60% crit chance. They were considered newbs who don't know how to gear up properly. True stories.

    2c, do your own thing though.
    Last edited by Violacea; 11-30-2012 at 01:58 PM.
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    Icw
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    found Elrar introducing Vengeance stat. Should help:

    http://forums.riftgame.com/official-...vengeance.html

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    Pretty sure crit power doesn't matter for (WF) PvP because anything you wear into PvP WFs will be normalized to mercenary gear stats ... unless you are wearing PvP armor that is better than mercenary armor.

    Basically, the only way to improve your stats above mercenary armor in PvP (WFs) is to use better PvP armor. Anything else is pretty much negated.

    If you're talking about open-world PvP, then good luck finding a target to kill!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patchkid View Post
    Pretty sure crit power doesn't matter for (WF) PvP because anything you wear into PvP WFs will be normalized to mercenary gear stats ... unless you are wearing PvP armor that is better than mercenary armor.

    Basically, the only way to improve your stats above mercenary armor in PvP (WFs) is to use better PvP armor. Anything else is pretty much negated.

    If you're talking about open-world PvP, then good luck finding a target to kill!
    This too. Forgot about this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patchkid View Post
    Pretty sure crit power doesn't matter for (WF) PvP because anything you wear into PvP WFs will be normalized to mercenary gear stats ... unless you are wearing PvP armor that is better than mercenary armor.

    Basically, the only way to improve your stats above mercenary armor in PvP (WFs) is to use better PvP armor. Anything else is pretty much negated.

    If you're talking about open-world PvP, then good luck finding a target to kill!
    Not all items with crit power get bolstered. Either way like mentioned earlier with such low crit rates crit power is almost pointless atm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patchkid View Post
    Pretty sure crit power doesn't matter for (WF) PvP because anything you wear into PvP WFs will be normalized to mercenary gear stats ... unless you are wearing PvP armor that is better than mercenary armor.

    Basically, the only way to improve your stats above mercenary armor in PvP (WFs) is to use better PvP armor. Anything else is pretty much negated.

    If you're talking about open-world PvP, then good luck finding a target to kill!
    OH wow so basically, I should just stick to my level 50 WF gear till I hit 60! I been using PvE green/blue gear!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblivion333 View Post
    OH wow so basically, I should just stick to my level 50 WF gear till I hit 60! I been using PvE green/blue gear!
    You could go naked into a WF, and be bolstered to the same level as any entry-level PvP set would have for your WF bracket... I recommend greens/blues -- whatever is your best gear. When you load in, look at your character stats, and you'll see that everything is very bolstered to match the WF minimum requirements.

    At level 60, wearing a full set of merc armor (minus source engine) I have the same stats in a WF when I wear my blue/epic instance/crafted gear.



    Not all items with crit power get bolstered. Either way like mentioned earlier with such low crit rates crit power is almost pointless atm.
    This is interesting, and I would love to know what items or item types are excluded from the "bolstering" (which I prefer to call normalization) mechanics?
    Last edited by Patchkid; 11-30-2012 at 02:20 PM.

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    Crit Power is still better than Crit Chance on a point for point basis though.
    Crit Chance just has that poor a return it's barely worth anything to most specs.
    Nope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patchkid View Post


    This is interesting, and I would love to know what items or item types are excluded from the "bolstering" (which I prefer to call normalization) mechanics?
    Each slot is compared against the lowest set of PVP gear available.
    If your gear is less powerful its stats will be replaced with the Mercenary set.
    If the gear you have equipped lacks Valor and is more powerful its stats will be replaced with gear from the Mercenary set.
    Procs and Runes have no effect if they are replaced.
    Synergy Crystal Bonuses use your equipped items to determine which bonuses are applied.
    Synergy Crystals, Greater Essences, Trinkets and Seals are excluded from Bolstering.
    Last edited by Baramos; 11-30-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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    Cool, so runes and augments on your seals can have crit power. Not enough to matter, but depending on class you might go that route. I.E. warriors seem to enjoy benefits from crit power, and I imagine so would rogues (especially assassins). Probably less so for clerics. Not sure about mages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblivion333 View Post
    OH wow so basically, I should just stick to my level 50 WF gear till I hit 60! I been using PvE green/blue gear!
    I was being downgraded in the WF's in my R50 PVP gear. One example was my Vengence went from 420 to 270-300 range. This type of downgrading was consistent with the other components. just started fighting the WF's in my PVE gear.
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