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Thread: Damage > Healing?

  1. #31
    Plane Touched Gorem's Avatar
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    I think you guys might be taking his word abit to far I mean I reckon one dps should be able to kill a healer if the healers been cc'd or debuffed or recives no outside heals or really is just a bad healer? XD

    However one dps should atleast force a healer to use aoe heals and cd's to survive! and it should take 2-3 dps to kill one! it's only a major problems when theres like 4-5 enemy healers and it's like noone can kill anything... but then you see that's a good thing cause the Enemy side actauly has people THAT WANT TO HEAL

    meanwhile all your mages and clerics say I WANT TO DPS!

    people also need to understand burst is > dps on healers! and besides your team should make sure theres no dps on your healers I mean whats the point of all those people who weirdly actauly go tank in wf's? should they not like pull enemys away from healers?

    really healers are the team players in all this... it's actauly why I love the marking system... atleast most of the time people follow it.... "most of the time"

    *misses war pvp *waves to Topology *hates DOK and chosen combos

    Then again this comming from a IB pvper that could run into a group of destro and burst the shamy down in seconds XD
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  2. #32
    Sword of Telara SWGMOD010's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Pain View Post
    This +100000 So happy not to see 15 minute stalemates with 10 kills per side.
    Oh, you prefer a zergfest where everyone is DPS, where, if you get targetted, you die instantly without any hope of survival? Sounds like a good time.

    People really need to stop blaming healing for a lack of kills, maybe you didn't focus fire, maybe you didn't CC appropriately, maybe you didn't target overextended people and instead blindly fanned the healer, maybe you didn't pressure the healer when necessary, maybe you didn't push at the right time.

    There's plenty of factors to consider, not just blindy scream "NERF HEALS" when your team was playing like a bunch of bads.

    Also, Stormzill
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  3. #33
    Rift Chaser Stanley Pain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SWGMOD010 View Post
    Oh, you prefer a zergfest where everyone is DPS, where, if you get targetted, you die instantly without any hope of survival? Sounds like a good time.

    People really need to stop blaming healing for a lack of kills, maybe you didn't focus fire, maybe you didn't CC appropriately, maybe you didn't target overextended people and instead blindly fanned the healer, maybe you didn't pressure the healer when necessary, maybe you didn't push at the right time.

    There's plenty of factors to consider, not just blindy scream "NERF HEALS" when your team was playing like a bunch of bads.
    Well hello there and welcome to reading comprehension 101. That't not what I said at all.

    Heals are still VERY powerful, and clerics are still THE force multiplier in WFs. I just enjoy not seeing the healing stalemates that PVP had progressed to. We'r at a good balance of survivability vs damage right now.

  4. #34
    Fia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Pain View Post
    We'r at a good balance of survivability vs damage right now.
    Yeeeess, suuuuure we are ... Try to heal some time, you'll notice how "balanced" it is ... I'm not saying healing wasn't OP before, but as it is now, the DMG-output is WAY higher than the healing-output, which makes it almost impossible to heal, especially if you're alone.

    You can see that the heals are not enough when people start complaining in WFs about it, and guess what, that's exactly what's happening right now. In almost all WF's people complain about there not being enough heal-output, and I agree! But it's not because the healers suck, it's because the heals are simply too weak. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I want to have a TROLOLOL FACEROLL OP healing class, I just want to be able to survive for 10 seconds when having 2 dps on me, I don't think that's too much to ask for. And don't even bother with saying: "Oh, you're not using your CDs properly, you suck." Guess what, my CDs are already used up because I had to use them for healing the group. So what am I left with now? Nothing, and that's exactly the problem, even with CDs it's hard to survive when one dps is on your tail, surviving two dps (even for just 10 seconds) is impossible.

    I personally don't consider this to be good pvp.
    Last edited by Fia; 11-20-2012 at 04:26 AM.

  5. #35
    Sword of Telara SWGMOD010's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Pain View Post
    Well hello there and welcome to reading comprehension 101. That't not what I said at all.

    Heals are still VERY powerful, and clerics are still THE force multiplier in WFs. I just enjoy not seeing the healing stalemates that PVP had progressed to. We'r at a good balance of survivability vs damage right now.
    You're pretty delusional.

    Also, Stormzill
    STORMSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORM

  6. #36
    Rift Disciple victz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Pain View Post
    We'r at a good balance of survivability vs damage right now.
    Are you sure you pvp? That's the one where players attack other players. Sorry, it's just that there are dozens of posts, vids, and screenshots (see my sig) that fly in the face of what you just said.
    Victz

    formerly Victz@Deepwood, Deepstrike, Dayblind, Seastone
    originally Vic@Ashstone
    PvP in 2.0 | Healing vids from the good old days.

  7. #37
    Ascendant Nightwish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    I just want to be able to survive for 10 seconds when having 2 dps on me, I don't think that's too much to ask for.
    Why should you be able to survive 2 dps?

    You, and those like you, are the reason healing in this game is/was so broken.

    The age old excuse: "How can I heal my team if 1 dps can shut me down?"

    One dps should be able to shut 1 healer down and force that healer to heal him/herself instead of the team.

    On the same token - the team should be protecting that healer so that does not happen.

    When 1 dps cannot shut down 1 healer AND the team is protecting said healer - guess what people are going to call for?

    I do admit that there are some things currently in this game broken about damage - but let us be real here. It is the dps specs of the healing classes (magically all blue bars) that are broken.

    - Vybz
    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    I just want to be able to survive for 10 seconds when having 2 dps on me, I don't think that's too much to ask for.
    Dedicated to the Rogues who stuck it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKoxTymkUTU
    Dedicated to the Rogue QQers and Haters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owzhYNcd4OM

  8. #38
    Sword of Telara SWGMOD010's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwish View Post
    Why should you be able to survive 2 dps?

    You, and those like you, are the reason healing in this game is/was so broken.

    The age old excuse: "How can I heal my team if 1 dps can shut me down?"

    One dps should be able to shut 1 healer down and force that healer to heal him/herself instead of the team.

    On the same token - the team should be protecting that healer so that does not happen.

    When 1 dps cannot shut down 1 healer AND the team is protecting said healer - guess what people are going to call for?

    I do admit that there are some things currently in this game broken about damage - but let us be real here. It is the dps specs of the healing classes (magically all blue bars) that are broken.

    - Vybz
    It's really not just the Clerics and Mages, MM is hitting stupidly hard and Assassin (lol) even harder. In the 60 bracket, Tempest is disgustingly OP. But yeah, generally every burst DPS class is completely out of control.

    Also, Stormzill
    STORMSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORM

  9. #39
    Plane Walker Lalothen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Pain View Post
    Heals are still VERY powerful, and clerics are still THE force multiplier in WFs. I just enjoy not seeing the healing stalemates that PVP had progressed to. We'r at a good balance of survivability vs damage right now.
    Only insofar as pugs in WFs generally don't possess the slightest bit of coordination, so those players who do choose to heal tend to have virtually unlimited breathing space to keep themselves and their group-mates alive. I've done some WFs as a healer and it's incredibly easy to tell when you've got even a small amount of coordination and target prioritisation going on in the other team, because I'm quickly locked down, being forced to LoS, etc etc etc.

    I've said this before, but the Rift devs could stand to learn quite a bit about PvP from Shadowbane, because on the whole it offered the most balanced and enjoyable PvP/GvG/NvN I've experienced to date.

  10. #40
    Ascendant Nightwish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SWGMOD010 View Post
    It's really not just the Clerics and Mages, MM is hitting stupidly hard and Assassin (lol) even harder. In the 60 bracket, Tempest is disgustingly OP. But yeah, generally every burst DPS class is completely out of control.
    Granted - I am not 60 - I have not seen or heard of a Rogue hitting anyone for 4-18k. If you can provide me some SSs I would be very greatful.

    Thanks for the response - your feedback is appreciated.

    - Vybz
    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    I just want to be able to survive for 10 seconds when having 2 dps on me, I don't think that's too much to ask for.
    Dedicated to the Rogues who stuck it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKoxTymkUTU
    Dedicated to the Rogue QQers and Haters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owzhYNcd4OM

  11. #41
    Sword of Telara SWGMOD010's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwish View Post
    Granted - I am not 60 - I have not seen or heard of a Rogue hitting anyone for 4-18k. If you can provide me some SSs I would be very greatful.

    Thanks for the response - your feedback is appreciated.

    - Vybz
    It doesn't have to be 1 big hit son, a chain of small hits is pretty lethal too, considering your 1 second GCD. Pretty sure Micshaz hits for over 6k though. You must be doing something wrong.
    Last edited by SWGMOD010; 11-20-2012 at 04:53 AM.

    Also, Stormzill
    STORMSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORMSTORM

  12. #42
    Ascendant Nightwish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SWGMOD010 View Post
    It doesn't have to be 1 big hit son, a chain of small hits is pretty lethal too, considering your 1 second GCD. Pretty sure Micshaz hits for over 6k though. You must be doing something wrong.
    I always thought burst dps meant bit hits in a short amount of time.

    No matter how short the GCD - if you are hitting a healer softly - it is going to be out healed.

    Unless RFS and Sin bleeds are ticking for 4k+ - well I will leave it at that before the old me comes out.

    Thanks again for your feedback - greatly apprecitaed.

    - Vybz
    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    I just want to be able to survive for 10 seconds when having 2 dps on me, I don't think that's too much to ask for.
    Dedicated to the Rogues who stuck it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKoxTymkUTU
    Dedicated to the Rogue QQers and Haters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owzhYNcd4OM

  13. #43
    Plane Walker Lalothen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwish View Post
    Why should you be able to survive 2 dps?
    Why not? Granted it should take dedicated personal healing/shield/reflecting, but so long as that comes at the total expense of support output to the rest of the team, there's no reason why healers shouldn't remain durable against a focused assault by a couple of DPS - considering it's a situation of attrition in favour of the DPS already anyway.

    In other PvP games, dealing with healers has usually involved heavy CC, focused burst aimed at a quick kill, or keeping the healer self-healing in order to prevent healing throughput to other team members. In Rift, a couple of competent players with decent burst specs can annihilate a healer in a paltry few GCDs. As it stands, there's no real strategy to dealing with healers beyond taking a few seconds to focus them to death, and that's just as frustrating for people who want to heal, as it has been previously for other people when faced with a healer who seems not only impossible to kill, but is also pulling off plenty of group healing output too.

    There needs to be a balance, and what we have currently really ain't it. That may change with ranks + gear though, so....
    Last edited by Lalothen; 11-20-2012 at 05:03 AM.

  14. #44
    Ascendant Nightwish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lalothen View Post
    Why not?
    Honestly - I stopped there. If you think 1 of anything, regardless of spec or calling, should be able to survive 2 equally skilled and geared dps then I have nothing further to say to you.

    - Vybz
    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    I just want to be able to survive for 10 seconds when having 2 dps on me, I don't think that's too much to ask for.
    Dedicated to the Rogues who stuck it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKoxTymkUTU
    Dedicated to the Rogue QQers and Haters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owzhYNcd4OM

  15. #45
    Fia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwish View Post
    Why should you be able to survive 2 dps?
    I never said that. Go read my post again please and don't twist my words around. You fail to notice that it takes some time for people of your group to help you. At the moment, if two dps charge onto you, you're dead meat in less than 3-5 seconds, even if your teammates want to help you, they'd never make it. Please do keep in mind that as a healer you're bound to stay at max range, so it does take some time for your teammates to reach you.
    Last edited by Fia; 11-20-2012 at 05:11 AM.

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