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Thread: Mana regeneration abilities in PvP

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    Champion Deathwhisperzz's Avatar
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    Default Mana regeneration abilities in PvP

    With patch 1.11 all mage and cleric souls received a very powerful mana regeneration ability for 24 points, in most cases a no-cd channeled ability that restores 5% mana per second.

    Because of this, mana is no longer a concern for almost everyone (some souls like harbinger have a cd attached to it). Even if you screw up and let someone drain you until 0% mana, you've just got to channel this for a few sec to be able to heal again. This makes mana drains pointless, as you'll have to spend a lot of time to drain a GOOD player until he's completely oom, while it'll only take him a few seconds to be back to 30% or more (and if he's clever enough to use his mana regeneration sooner, he'll probably never be oom in the first place).

    Here are a few suggestions to make this more balanced :

    - Add a reasonable cooldown to these abilities. Something like 30 seconds for the channel ones. This way, the healer will have to find a safe place or cc his opponent to make sure he doesn't get interrupted.
    - Reduce the effect in PvP (something like 3% per second instead of 5%).
    - Add a debuff that would strongly discourage spamming this kind of ability. For example, something that would reduce healing done by 30% for 10 sec after using it.

    Mana drains are useful only as long as the target is strongly penalized once oom (as they don't do anything before that), so they'll remain worthless against most souls until getting mana back becomes slightly harder. If necessary make mana wrench cleansable again to make draining more difficult.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Juddo's Avatar
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    I sure do miss the days when VKs were feared by most casters. If your team couldn't figure out how to focus fire a healer, at least you could take a good chunk of mana away.

    As long as there is more than one player, PvP will be imbalanced.

  3. #3
    Champion Deathwhisperzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juddo View Post
    I sure do miss the days when VKs were feared by most casters. If your team couldn't figure out how to focus fire a healer, at least you could take a good chunk of mana away.
    Yes, I was surprised too when I saw they lost all their mana drains...

    Only dom and sin have got mana drains now afaik. I wish every calling had some, so that they may play a bigger role in team fights. Mana should always remain an important concern.

    More power, charge and energy game would be welcome too. It'd make the current meta-game deeper.
    Last edited by Deathwhisperzz; 11-18-2012 at 03:23 AM.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Ovdisaier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathwhisperzz View Post
    With patch 1.11 all mage and cleric souls received a very powerful mana regeneration ability for 24 points, in most cases a no-cd channeled ability that restores 5% mana per second.

    Because of this, mana is no longer a concern for almost everyone (some souls like harbinger have a cd attached to it). Even if you screw up and let someone drain you until 0% mana, you've just got to channel this for a few sec to be able to heal again. This makes mana drains pointless, as you'll have to spend a lot of time to drain a GOOD player until he's completely oom, while it'll only take him a few seconds to be back to 30% or more (and if he's clever enough to use his mana regeneration sooner, he'll probably never be oom in the first place).

    Here are a few suggestions to make this more balanced :

    - Add a reasonable cooldown to these abilities. Something like 30 seconds for the channel ones. This way, the healer will have to find a safe place or cc his opponent to make sure he doesn't get interrupted.
    - Reduce the effect in PvP (something like 3% per second instead of 5%).
    - Add a debuff that would strongly discourage spamming this kind of ability. For example, something that would reduce healing done by 30% for 10 sec after using it.

    Mana drains are useful only as long as the target is strongly penalized once oom (as they don't do anything before that), so they'll remain worthless against most souls until getting mana back becomes slightly harder. If necessary make mana wrench cleansable again to make draining more difficult.
    You'd do better to get your team to focus the caster's hitpoints instead of his mana... he's dead in no time then. If people in warfronts can't manage to work as a team or do the important stuff as well as zerging - like killing the caster or at least keep him busy with himself - then they shouldn't ask for a nerf of other classes' beneficial abilities.

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    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovdisaier View Post
    You'd do better to get your team to focus the caster's hitpoints instead of his mana... he's dead in no time then.
    Once upon a time, it was better to keep the healer alive and drained instead of killing them.

    Those were good times.
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    Champion Deathwhisperzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ovdisaier View Post
    You'd do better to get your team to focus the caster's hitpoints instead of his mana... he's dead in no time then. If people in warfronts can't manage to work as a team or do the important stuff as well as zerging - like killing the caster or at least keep him busy with himself - then they shouldn't ask for a nerf of other classes' beneficial abilities.
    That's exactly my point.

    Previously, there were 3 options to deal with healers :

    -Zerg them down (the least interesting gameplay wise, obviously).
    -cc them and kill their teammates (hard in a PuG setting for obvious reasons, but still do-able).
    -Drain their mana.

    Because of how easy it is to get mana back right now, draining a half-decent healer is no longer a viable option. Builds that rely mostly on mana drains in group fights have been severely weakened, and group fights have lost a lot of interest as zerging the healer down is pretty much the only option left...

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser Riftologist's Avatar
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    In combat mana regeneration could certainly use some adjustment. A cooldown on the ability(s) appears to be the most attractive option.
    Who is John Galt?

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    Champion Deathwhisperzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riftologist View Post
    In combat mana regeneration could certainly use some adjustment. A cooldown on the ability(s) appears to be the most attractive option.
    Yes, that would certainly be the best solution. It might interfere with PvE though, so I'm not sure if Trion would be willing to fix it this way...

    If PvE is an issue, then simply reduce the mana return in PvP combat, or apply a debuff that reduces PvP healing or something like that.

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    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathwhisperzz View Post
    [...] and group fights have lost a lot of interest as zerging the healer down is pretty much the only option left...
    Zerging the dps down tends to me faster and more effective. Just sayin'.
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    Champion Deathwhisperzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    Zerging the dps down tends to me faster and more effective. Just sayin'.
    It depends on the dps's souls of course... But it doesn't change much about my point anyway.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Should just figure out how to give mages/clerics energy and put a lot more effort into the concept of energy as the global power pool for ability executions.

    Clerics can cast steadily for a while without running out of power
    Rogues/warriors want better energy so they can to, even though their pool is infinite.
    Mages and clerics say, wtfm8, so we have to conserve and other classes barley have to mind theirs?
    Rogues/warriors who could power drain before think it sucks that now clerics have basically endless power if they play right.

    Seems like it would be easier if all the callings just used the same method.
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    I, for one, would like to thank Trion for putting a damper on what has to be THE cheesiest way of defeating an opponent in PvP.

    For people who use this "legitimate tactic" I can see how it can be very frustrating, but you also have to realize that using the channeled mana regens is equivalent to waving a huge flag that says KILL ME. If the caster doesn't start receiving the other team's burst a couple of seconds after the channel starts, the other team is failing.
    Last edited by Pork Star; 11-18-2012 at 11:51 AM.

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    Champion Deathwhisperzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pork Star View Post
    I, for one, would like to thank Trion for putting a damper on what has to be THE cheesiest way of defeating an opponent in PvP.

    For people who use this "legitimate tactic" I can see how it can be very frustrating, but you also have to realize that using the channeled mana regens is equivalent to waving a huge flag that says KILL ME. If the caster doesn't start receiving the other team's burst a couple of seconds after the channel starts, the other team is failing.
    And you can stop waving this "huge flag" at any time without any penalty if necessary, as you can start channeling it immediately after once you're no longer in danger. If it had a 30+ seconds cooldown it'd be fine, but in it's current form it obviously isn't.

    Mana drains may be annoying once you're completely oom, but as they do have counters (LoS, cleanses, interrupts) it's your fault if you let someone oom you.

  14. #14
    Champion of Telara Leif's Avatar
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    Can we just turn this into a thread about nerfing mass betrayal, transference and traitorous influence to the ground until rogues get better drains and vk's get drains back?

    You know, 'cause losing half your resource pool in one gcd and the rest in the next 2 makes for great pvp.
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  15. #15
    Soulwalker Challenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leif View Post
    You know, 'cause losing half your resource pool in one gcd and the rest in the next 2 makes for great pvp.
    Yes, please.

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