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Thread: Not a rank reset but something similar

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Reynold's Avatar
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    Default Not a rank reset but something similar

    I posted this over in the Beta forums, but I figure it'll get a bit more visibility here

    Let me start by saying that I don't like the idea of resetting everyones ranks, however the thread about resetting ranks got me thinking and I just had an idea that I think will please both sides.

    Basically, the argument for resetting everyone's ranks is that new players shouldn't have to grind through ranks 1-50 just to be able to get to the SL PvP gear. The opposing argument is that this invalidates all the work current players put in towards getting to rank 50.

    Trion has said that they are going to dramatically increase the speed that players will rank up from 1-50 to compensate, which is nice but overall I think it's a bad solution to what is definitely an important problem. The reason I think it's a bad solution is that grinding out 50 ranks, even if they are really fast, is psycologically a really daunting task. Getting to level 60 and then finding out that you have to grind out 80 pvp ranks can be really discouraging.

    Instead, what I think Trion should do is restructure the current ranks, just like they have done in the past, and make it so that instead of 80 ranks there are 20-30.

    Basically it would work like this:

    Current ranks up to r50 would be reduced to 0-5, and a players rank would be set based on what there previous rank was (I.E.- a r50 player would be reduced to r5, and a r37 player would be reduced to r3 and would be 70% of the way towards r4)
    Mercenary set would still be available with no rank requirement.
    Freelancer armor would require R10, weapons r20
    Warlord armor would require R20, weapons r30

    With this change current players would not have all of their current progress invalidated, yet new players would not be faced with a wall that seems impossible to overcome.

    I also thiink this is something that could be done at the start of each expansion, because otherwise we could end with a situation 2-3 expansions from now where instead new players of having to grind out 50 ranks, they would have to grind out 150-200 ranks, which is just silly.
    Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying
    evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Charlice's Avatar
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    Remembering that rank 8 old school is about rank 37? now, the rank 50 challenge is purely psychological. They could just put it back how it used to be and call the new rank 80 rank 10.
    It's really not going to make any difference.

    I guess it depends on exactly how fast they've sped it up, but, ranks without having the favor to buy gear are pretty useless.

    I don't think it would be fair if new players to PvP, got a free ride to rank 50. I do think it's a good idea they've sped up the process. I guess it's just a wait and see thing.


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  3. #3
    Ascendant Ajax1114's Avatar
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    I look at it like I look at raiding: The only thing that's really going to last when level 60 comes is achievements. Past gear will be largely irrelevant other than speeding up the leveling process.

    Why should PvP be any different? If it's a mentality of effort feeling wasted, take the rank achievements/titles and associate them with an amount of prestige instead of rank.

    Then Trion is free to all but remove the rank gap and it will be little different than the reset raiding is getting. What would be left to complain about that is unique to PvP?

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara Dee Dee's Avatar
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    looking at pvp before SL: the more geared and experienced ppl, the more quality matches for all

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    Champion Naduri's Avatar
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    I stopped playing Warhammer when I got to max level and then realised I was still miles from being able to compete equally due to prestige.

    I would imagine the currently proposed system would generate similar feelings in new players.

    Both sides have valid opinions here but somethign needs to be changed. Having 80 ranks is more than daunting.
    Anduri - Gelidra
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  6. #6
    Ascendant Appendy's Avatar
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    It's not hard or even painful to grind up to rank 50 now. There are all sorts of stat bolstering and rank matching added to pad your bumbums ~ not to mention how easy it is to get gear (you can have the top gear/trinket before hitting 50) so... big NO to your suggestion. Sorry. Currently PvP is noob friendly.

    Don't make me tell you of the olden days I leveled to R8 uphill in the snow both ways. Those were brutal times, my friend. Brutal.

  7. #7
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    It doesn't take much time now to grind out r50.

    How could it even be a concern if it is going to be significantly faster?

    Will people be able to rank up as they go from 50-60? If so seems like it will not be an issue

    Resetting ranks is a really horrible idea by the way. That doesn't fix the problem you seem concerned with.
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  8. #8
    Rift Chaser Voidmind's Avatar
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    Default really?

    I still can't get over how trion thinks it's a great idea to force new players to grind to r50 before they can even start working at SL PvP gear, it is without a doubt the most absurd thing I have ever heard of. It doesn't matter how "easy" it is to grind up to R50 now, a task like this is daunting for new players and in no way encourages them to PvP.

    I do agree R50 is just a number and the speed of the grind will be "faster" so I'm sure it will be easier, I just couldn't imagine if you forced players to get all ID gear just to do SL experts BEFORE you can even think of raiding, that is exactly what they are doing to potential new members of the PvP community and I feel it does nothing but discourage new people from even getting into PvP, wrong answer Trion.

    There has to be a better approach to this, resetting the ranks is the only thing I can imagine that would make this ok, you guys are losing all the valor off the old gear anyways, you will never lose your cheevo's, I really don't see what the big deal is.
    it is not enough these days to question authority, you gotta speak with it too

  9. #9
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voidmind View Post
    I still can't get over how trion thinks it's a great idea to force new players to grind to r50 before they can even start working at SL PvP gear, it is without a doubt the most absurd thing I have ever heard of. It doesn't matter how "easy" it is to grind up to R50 now, a task like this is daunting for new players and in no way encourages them to PvP.

    I do agree R50 is just a number and the speed of the grind will be "faster" so I'm sure it will be easier, I just couldn't imagine if you forced players to get all ID gear just to do SL experts BEFORE you can even think of raiding, that is exactly what they are doing to potential new members of the PvP community and I feel it does nothing but discourage new people from even getting into PvP, wrong answer Trion.

    There has to be a better approach to this, resetting the ranks is the only thing I can imagine that would make this ok, you guys are losing all the valor off the old gear anyways, you will never lose your cheevo's, I really don't see what the big deal is.
    Aren't they addressing a lot of your concerns with the tiered system described in the beta patch notes? I can't remember the details, but basically it will create brackets based on levels which would help lower level players avoid higher level players.

    Anyway I would be down for anything that makes PvP better...even starting from zero, though I really don't think that's the answer.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Reynold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appendy View Post
    It's not hard or even painful to grind up to rank 50 now. There are all sorts of stat bolstering and rank matching added to pad your bumbums ~ not to mention how easy it is to get gear (you can have the top gear/trinket before hitting 50) so... big NO to your suggestion. Sorry. Currently PvP is noob friendly.

    Don't make me tell you of the olden days I leveled to R8 uphill in the snow both ways. Those were brutal times, my friend. Brutal.
    I'm not the least bit concerned with the speed it takes to get to r50. I'm concerned with the psychological aspect of having to grind out 50 ranks at all. Restructuring the ranks like I'm suggesting doesn't move the goalpost at all, it just makes it seem. To use an analogy comparing miles and feet, the current system, come SL, asks new players to drive 26400 feet whereas I'm merely suggesting they label it as 5 miles because, even though it is the same distance, 5 miles seems like it's a lot less than 26400 feet.


    Quote Originally Posted by aeio View Post
    It doesn't take much time now to grind out r50.

    How could it even be a concern if it is going to be significantly faster?

    Will people be able to rank up as they go from 50-60? If so seems like it will not be an issue

    Resetting ranks is a really horrible idea by the way. That doesn't fix the problem you seem concerned with.
    Well it's a good thing that's not at all what my suggestion was. Try reading my post again, a bit slower this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidmind View Post
    I still can't get over how trion thinks it's a great idea to force new players to grind to r50 before they can even start working at SL PvP gear, it is without a doubt the most absurd thing I have ever heard of. It doesn't matter how "easy" it is to grind up to R50 now, a task like this is daunting for new players and in no way encourages them to PvP.

    I do agree R50 is just a number and the speed of the grind will be "faster" so I'm sure it will be easier, I just couldn't imagine if you forced players to get all ID gear just to do SL experts BEFORE you can even think of raiding, that is exactly what they are doing to potential new members of the PvP community and I feel it does nothing but discourage new people from even getting into PvP, wrong answer Trion.

    There has to be a better approach to this, resetting the ranks is the only thing I can imagine that would make this ok, you guys are losing all the valor off the old gear anyways, you will never lose your cheevo's, I really don't see what the big deal is.
    That's why I posted this idea in the first place. As you said, r50, no matter the time it takes you to get there, seems like a really daunting task. With my suggestion, current players get to keep their current rank progression and get a bit of a headstart going into SL, and new players won't be faced with something that seems impossible from the onset and then quit.
    Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying
    evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.

  11. #11
    Telaran Patchouli's Avatar
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    I think once a player dings level 60, they should be automatically granted rank 50, minus the rewards you would have gotten for going 1-50 at level 50. (Planar attunement experience and whatnot) The thing is, why in the world do people need to grind out 50 useless levels? Even if they are faster, they are still essentially pointless in the big picture of things at level 60. I believe the first rank gear starts at rank 60 (I could be remembering wrong) from playing around on the Beta... That means essentially 75% of your ranks are pure fluff, the only relevant ones become 60-80. It's silly... If the old system really must be left in for level 50s, let them have it, but don't force people who reroll or come to the game as new players to spend 60 ranks worth of time for no reward.

    Aezariel ~ P50 - 8/8 ID

  12. #12
    Ascendant Appendy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reynold View Post
    That's why I posted this idea in the first place. As you said, r50, no matter the time it takes you to get there, seems like a really daunting task.
    Getting into an ID raid from a fresh 50's perspective is just as daunting. The difference? You can enter warfronts and earn currency for gear BEFORE you even ding 50. It's more difficult to enter ID (for example) if you aren't in a guild that would allow you in without meeting the 420+ hit dps/hps requirement. You have to grind out the gear. The same will go for higher tiered raiding in Storm Legion - I will assume the gear will not just fall out of the sky. And it shouldn't work that way. Sorry.

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara Dee Dee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appendy View Post
    Getting into an ID raid from a fresh 50's perspective is just as daunting. The difference? You can enter warfronts and earn currency for gear BEFORE you even ding 50. It's more difficult to enter ID (for example) if you aren't in a guild that would allow you in without meeting the 420+ hit dps/hps requirement. You have to grind out the gear. The same will go for higher tiered raiding in Storm Legion - I will assume the gear will not just fall out of the sky. And it shouldn't work that way. Sorry.
    what it has to do an ID raid with a warfront
    also the currency you get before you ding 50 is so slim its not worth mentioning, btw, you can do very few warfronts till you are maxed

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Reynold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appendy View Post
    Getting into an ID raid from a fresh 50's perspective is just as daunting. The difference? You can enter warfronts and earn currency for gear BEFORE you even ding 50. It's more difficult to enter ID (for example) if you aren't in a guild that would allow you in without meeting the 420+ hit dps/hps requirement. You have to grind out the gear. The same will go for higher tiered raiding in Storm Legion - I will assume the gear will not just fall out of the sky. And it shouldn't work that way. Sorry.
    I'm not proposing this take place now; this is something that will happen once SL drops next month. I'm also not proposing that gear fall out of the sky, and I'm not sure how you got that from what I've posted.

    However, to use your example of getting into ID against you, consider this. Currently, the raid progression for 20 man raids goes GSB/ROS, HK, then ID. Similarly, PvP has a progression in the Prestige rank system, r1 to r50. Once SL drops and new PvE players get to level 60, they won't have to go anywhere near GSB, ROS, HK, or ID in order to progress into the SL raids, however, new PvP players will still have to complete the r1-r50 grind in order to reach the proposed SL PvP ranks which are r51-r80.

    To put it another way, PvE players are seeing both a gear and a progression reset, whereas PvP players are only getting the gear reset. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for a progression reset for PvP players, and if I had it my way I'd like to see the current raids scaled up to level 60 so that they are still relevant in the expansion. All I'm advocating for is making the PvP progression seem less daunting to new players, which can be done by lowering the total number of PvP ranks while keeping the total prestige required to earn them all the same.
    Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying
    evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.

  15. #15
    Shadowlander modusfugit's Avatar
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    I think Trion did the smart thing. Made easier for new guys, but still left a grind so they have to catch up so all the people who care about others being on an even playing field will have their time to be OP.

    It will allow new guys to catch up and old guys to rank up alts so it keeps the game fresh.

    I hit RR10 in daoc back in the day, whatever they do here will be nothing compared to that grind. lol
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