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Thread: Necromancer PvP

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    Shadowlander Morbidius's Avatar
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    Default Necromancer PvP

    Hi all.
    As of the changes to all classes and more specific the Necromancer I would like to share my thoughts regarding this soul and its viability in PvP.

    First of all: I know that pet classes are not meant for PvP Godness/Über/Omfg OP:ness.
    I am fully spec. in Necromancer (51 points).
    I am rank 50 but not fully geared.

    The soul itself has gotten a new and more distinct way of play. The pets (walking piles of bone going nagnagnagnagnag) are stacking Deathly Calling (instead of the mage) thru a variety of abilities. The mage are then using those stacks for their abilities. Without Deathly Calling the mage does no or very limited damage. With that said the Necromancer needs his Mr.Bones (with a capital N in needs) to even be of any use than picking ones nose. The pet is to the Necromancer as the weapon is for the warrior. If it dies it´s like a warrior getting perma disarmed.

    The Problem: The pets have no survivability at all. It dies, vanishes, goes poof as soon any dps class even comes close or lay his/her eyes on the pet. I was forced to try going with my tanking pet. Even that one (with its mega health-pool of 7k) died pretty instant. When trying to keep up with the pace and heal the pet with Soul Purge and Bloom from chloro (8 points chloro) it doesn´t make the day. Many times I do not even notice my pet go down because it dies so fast.

    I would like to upper the survivability of the pets (I do not speak in behalf of the other pet classes), just so that I as its Master can keep it alive even if it means I cannot deal damage on my own. Maybe SL take care of it but that is out of my grasp of knowledge.
    One more thing: With Exhume (call your pet without casting time) at a cooldown of 2minutes it is even harder to keep the pet up and use my 51 point ability without being bursted down before those 3seconds of casting is over. It is constantly on CD.

    Well I think you have gotten the idea.
    Tinker away.


    /Sitara- bloodiron

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbidius View Post
    Hi all.
    As of the changes to all classes and more specific the Necromancer I would like to share my thoughts regarding this soul and its viability in PvP.

    First of all: I know that pet classes are not meant for PvP Godness/Über/Omfg OP:ness.
    I am fully spec. in Necromancer (51 points).
    I am rank 50 but not fully geared.

    The soul itself has gotten a new and more distinct way of play. The pets (walking piles of bone going nagnagnagnagnag) are stacking Deathly Calling (instead of the mage) thru a variety of abilities. The mage are then using those stacks for their abilities. Without Deathly Calling the mage does no or very limited damage. With that said the Necromancer needs his Mr.Bones (with a capital N in needs) to even be of any use than picking ones nose. The pet is to the Necromancer as the weapon is for the warrior. If it dies it´s like a warrior getting perma disarmed.

    The Problem: The pets have no survivability at all. It dies, vanishes, goes poof as soon any dps class even comes close or lay his/her eyes on the pet. I was forced to try going with my tanking pet. Even that one (with its mega health-pool of 7k) died pretty instant. When trying to keep up with the pace and heal the pet with Soul Purge and Bloom from chloro (8 points chloro) it doesn´t make the day. Many times I do not even notice my pet go down because it dies so fast.

    I would like to upper the survivability of the pets (I do not speak in behalf of the other pet classes), just so that I as its Master can keep it alive even if it means I cannot deal damage on my own. Maybe SL take care of it but that is out of my grasp of knowledge.
    One more thing: With Exhume (call your pet without casting time) at a cooldown of 2minutes it is even harder to keep the pet up and use my 51 point ability without being bursted down before those 3seconds of casting is over. It is constantly on CD.

    Well I think you have gotten the idea.
    Tinker away.


    /Sitara- bloodiron
    The OP is right where the pet die really fast leaving the necro almost useless in the case exhume is gone. It is already hard to control the pet in pvp as is making a necro spec hard to use in pvp.

    The Necro pet (and maybe the ele one too - haven't checked) doesn't show any valor setting and gets hit way harder than me.

    Also why would you nerf soul purge so badly (almsot useless) ? especially now that the mage-heal ability of it is so high up the necro tree.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander Morbidius's Avatar
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    Default Aye

    Necromancer, on the paper, shows an exciting way of play - for me that is anyway.

    To complement the bad survival of the pet is the new armor in necro- Bone armor- that transfers 20% of the damage taken to the active pet... but if the pet han no or limited survival then it is almost no use left for the armor spell itself (and yes all I am saying is refering to PvP only not PvE).

    I would love to just hear that someone is looking into it.

    /Sitara and Sixten
    Last edited by Morbidius; 10-22-2012 at 01:48 AM.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    It would be nice for necros to have the possibility to play effectively without any pet, when also specced in warlock, and maybe harbinger in the future, or, in the contrary, have a huge army of minions, when fully specced, a la gw2. I know a lot of Rift players just freak out when hearing "gw2", but necros in this game are really fun to play and you're not restricted to keep ONE minion alive to be able to do things. You can play with ground marks and condition spreading (no pet at all) or being a pain in the *** at nodes, assisted by your legion of zerglings.
    Plus, they have a lot of utilities, like plague, spread dots or death shroud, that are really unique and enjoyable.
    We'll see after SL release anyway...
    Last edited by KarsaiB; 10-22-2012 at 05:06 AM.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Pets are extremely fragile nowadays.

    I can often burn one down in a handful of GCDs, and it's faster to burn down the Split Personality pets than it is to try and Erad the buff off now.
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    Ascendant Jeffreys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    Pets are extremely fragile nowadays.

    I can often burn one down in a handful of GCDs, and it's faster to burn down the Split Personality pets than it is to try and Erad the buff off now.
    I'm going to use this as an excuse when I accidentally tab target the pet and can't kind find the owner. lol
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    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffreys View Post
    I'm going to use this as an excuse when I accidentally tab target the pet and can't kind find the owner. lol
    It's a non-issue now with CPs on the rogue, frankly. I target pets to build points and disrupt pet users.
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  8. #8
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffreys View Post
    I'm going to use this as an excuse when I accidentally tab target the pet and can't kind find the owner. lol
    They can be handy blood thirsty procs.

  9. #9
    Rift Master Beringer's Avatar
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    Even if your melee pet becomes completely invulnerable in PvP, I think it's still pretty useless because it's too slow. PvP is fast-paced and I think all melee pets are too slow to have any impact on the fight (except the rogue pig). Lack of speed (gap-closers), in combination with terrain and pathing issues makes them a lost cause.

    Using a ranged pet makes things viable again. If they get a lot more Valor.

    I'm an altoholic: Thirteen 60 clerics, eleven 60 rogues, eleven 60 warriors, five 60 mages, etc...

  10. #10
    Shadowlander Morbidius's Avatar
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    Default To lazy

    I´m to lazy to check if it is brought up anywhere else but I take the chance to mention one more thing:

    When you die after you applied Last Gasp on someone and it linger on at target cause he is getting healed, when ressed again Last Gasp is still triggering reflecting kind of spells (for example "Mass Charged Shield" from dominator) which is making for example mounting a real competition and hard of a task.

    Could it be fixxed so either it is dispelled upon casters death or that it is not triggering that kind of spells?

    yours truly

    /Sitara and Sixten
    Last edited by Morbidius; 10-23-2012 at 02:00 PM.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Bliter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffreys View Post
    I'm going to use this as an excuse when I accidentally tab target the pet and can't kind find the owner. lol
    I kill the pets so I don't re-target them. My tab target seems to always find pets first =\
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  12. #12
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    Default Improvements

    Firstly I would like to say that the necromancer is now very effective and fun in pvp, despite some minor issues that have been mentioned. I would like to throw some support behind having these tweaked. The most important is the pet's survivability, my mage is fully geared (minus the cq runes) and the melee pet goes down very fast. Sabs tend to destroy the ranged pet using only aoe attacks on myself, often in one blast. I understand that crippling a necro by killing the pet is a good strat, but does it have to be so easy?
    Secondly, Last Gasp being on someone the entire game due to sloppy healing/support prevents mounting or changing souls for the entire game. Very frustrating when you res and want to get back into the fight or change to a different soul. Maybe if it was dispelled on res?
    Lastly, the change to soul purge (correct name?) has rendered it nearly useless as a self heal. It will heal a pet quite quickly but due to the damage a pet takes, it could be necessary to spam it over and over to keep the pet alive. Can we have the old version back as there is only one charge dump in the necro soul and it uses a small fraction of the charge gained in a game.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander Morbidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tookmyjob View Post
    Lastly, the change to soul purge (correct name?) has rendered it nearly useless as a self heal. It will heal a pet quite quickly but due to the damage a pet takes, it could be necessary to spam it over and over to keep the pet alive. Can we have the old version back as there is only one charge dump in the necro soul and it uses a small fraction of the charge gained in a game.

    I totally agree with you Took, but soul purge I think should stay non charge-consumer, give the pet alot more survivability and if anothoer charge burner is needed I would rather see some kind of defensive ability using charge... not necessarily a CC but a shield or an AoE dealing damage and healing the mage (Cd of 30sec or 60sec, non channeled and give it cool graphics like grasping arms from the ground ).

    But necro is and can be alot more fun if mentioned flaws is taken care of (looked into) @Kervik .

    /S n' S
    Last edited by Morbidius; 10-23-2012 at 09:36 PM.

  14. #14
    Shadowlander Morbidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbidius View Post
    But necro is and can be alot more fun if mentioned flaws is taken care of (looked into) @Kervik .

    Still refering to PvP and not PvE.

    Oh! and Sixten wants a new colour for his bandana. tnx ;)
    Last edited by Morbidius; 10-23-2012 at 09:44 PM.

  15. #15
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tookmyjob View Post
    Firstly I would like to say that the necromancer is now very effective and fun in pvp, despite some minor issues that have been mentioned. I would like to throw some support behind having these tweaked. The most important is the pet's survivability, my mage is fully geared (minus the cq runes) and the melee pet goes down very fast. Sabs tend to destroy the ranged pet using only aoe attacks on myself, often in one blast. I understand that crippling a necro by killing the pet is a good strat, but does it have to be so easy?
    Secondly, Last Gasp being on someone the entire game due to sloppy healing/support prevents mounting or changing souls for the entire game. Very frustrating when you res and want to get back into the fight or change to a different soul. Maybe if it was dispelled on res?
    Lastly, the change to soul purge (correct name?) has rendered it nearly useless as a self heal. It will heal a pet quite quickly but due to the damage a pet takes, it could be necessary to spam it over and over to keep the pet alive. Can we have the old version back as there is only one charge dump in the necro soul and it uses a small fraction of the charge gained in a game.
    great post - you touched all the 3 major problems (apart from managing the pet which is difficult at certain terrains at times)

    1. Pet survivability - both dmg mitigation and HP pool (and I would say 1 min cd on exhume is too long)
    2. last gasp not being cleansed keeps you in combat after you die and rez + continue to proc shields like warlock armor / charged shield
    3. soul purge - almost useless (hits for 200-300 a tick and heals for nothing)

    As a result of 1 and 3 - "bone armor" and "loyal minion" are really worthless as the pet just dies in one shot as it is, without it taking more dmg to protect the caster (hmm I guess I also die in one shot if a wl/vk gets anywhere close to me :P - but that's another thread)

    Otherwise, if those were fixed i would try and play deep Necro in pvp (for the first time since rift started) as it has some potential.
    Last edited by Firebl@de; 10-23-2012 at 11:18 PM.

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