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Thread: Is the PvP situation going to improve at all in the expansion?

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    Default Is the PvP situation going to improve at all in the expansion?

    I enjoy playing Rift and I think you guys have done a great job with most of it, but I'm an almost exclusively PvP player and I'm concerned at the way the PvP community is treated in this game.

    Specifically:

    - The lack of any viable way to queue with friends and play PvP socially, especially since this is an MMO
    - The existing penalties for queueing with more than one person
    - The complete reliance on a grind, every time a new PvP patch is released
    - The lack of any competitive play, even rated Warfronts
    - Shifting major PvP rewards over to Conquest, which means some players like me, with 162k lifetime kills, still don't have all the PvP gear because we can't commit to playing 3-hour matches to grind for tokens

    The fundamental problem, I believe, is that Trion is terrified of offending the PvE playerbase, so while all the PvE gear is "accomplishment" based (ie. killing raid bosses), none of the PvP gear is. This is also the reason that we cannot queue in groups without a penalty, and it is also the reason all PvP gear was basically rendered useless in any PvE capacity by limiting upgrades strictly to vengeance stats.

    I've got no problem with making decent PvP gear easier to get, and I think it's great that Trion has made big steps to make PvP more accessible to casual players. But...we, the PvP community, are always considered after the PvE community, even when it comes to our own content.

    For the entire life of vanilla Rift, we've been forced to play with random people and to grind, without any real way of consistently teaming up with friends or playing ranked, competitive matches.

    Are there any plans at all in the expansion to give us something to play for instead of a never-ending Prestige and Favor grind? Any plans to make PvP more social, less random and more about playing PvP than accumulating Favor?

    I'm not asking for arenas, and while I love the PvP mechanics of the game, I'm going to find it really hard to justify buying the expansion and continuing with the game if PvP never improves and the developers never listen to the reasonable pleas of their PvP base.

    Trion, please communicate with us so we know what to expect. Thanks.
    Arete@Threesprings - Starslight@Wolfsbane

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    General of Telara Ashh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetSeoul View Post
    I enjoy playing Rift and I think you guys have done a great job with most of it, but I'm an almost exclusively PvP player and I'm concerned at the way the PvP community is treated in this game.

    Specifically:

    - The lack of any viable way to queue with friends and play PvP socially, especially since this is an MMO
    - The existing penalties for queueing with more than one person
    - The complete reliance on a grind, every time a new PvP patch is released
    - The lack of any competitive play, even rated Warfronts
    - Shifting major PvP rewards over to Conquest, which means some players like me, with 162k lifetime kills, still don't have all the PvP gear because we can't commit to playing 3-hour matches to grind for tokens

    The fundamental problem, I believe, is that Trion is terrified of offending the PvE playerbase, so while all the PvE gear is "accomplishment" based (ie. killing raid bosses), none of the PvP gear is. This is also the reason that we cannot queue in groups without a penalty, and it is also the reason all PvP gear was basically rendered useless in any PvE capacity by limiting upgrades strictly to vengeance stats.

    I've got no problem with making decent PvP gear easier to get, and I think it's great that Trion has made big steps to make PvP more accessible to casual players. But...we, the PvP community, are always considered after the PvE community, even when it comes to our own content.

    For the entire life of vanilla Rift, we've been forced to play with random people and to grind, without any real way of consistently teaming up with friends or playing ranked, competitive matches.

    Are there any plans at all in the expansion to give us something to play for instead of a never-ending Prestige and Favor grind? Any plans to make PvP more social, less random and more about playing PvP than accumulating Favor?

    I'm not asking for arenas, and while I love the PvP mechanics of the game, I'm going to find it really hard to justify buying the expansion and continuing with the game if PvP never improves and the developers never listen to the reasonable pleas of their PvP base.

    Trion, please communicate with us so we know what to expect. Thanks.
    CQ isn't all that bad if you queue a raid.. we did the other night and downed several zergs, most the foci and the boss in about an hour. Plus it was fun to play as an actual group, I suggest you try it Here is a link of that action last night if you want to check it out http://www.twitch.tv/tacowarior/b/335501526

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    Ascendant Charlice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashh View Post
    CQ isn't all that bad if you queue a raid.. we did the other night and downed several zergs, most the foci and the boss in about an hour. Plus it was fun to play as an actual group, I suggest you try it Here is a link of that action last night if you want to check it out http://www.twitch.tv/tacowarior/b/335501526
    Do you know what would make Conquest even better Ashh? Well I'll tell you. It needs fishing!!!


    Den of Madness | Greybriar | Den of Badness | Derpwood

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    General of Telara Ashh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlice View Post
    Do you know what would make Conquest even better Ashh? Well I'll tell you. It needs fishing!!!
    You are absolutely right my friend

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashh View Post
    CQ isn't all that bad if you queue a raid.. we did the other night and downed several zergs, most the foci and the boss in about an hour. Plus it was fun to play as an actual group, I suggest you try it Here is a link of that action last night if you want to check it out http://www.twitch.tv/tacowarior/b/335501526
    Thank you I didn't realize you could queue CQ as a group.

    It's still not a good system. I've played too many games where I had to drop out after hours without any reward because I just didn't have the time to keep playing. But the people who had 18 hours a day to play that first weekend, when there was a game every 30 minutes and teams farmed CQ points and marks, they got everything in two days.

    I don't see how that's acceptable, but having rated WFs or some other path to getting gear besides grinding is considered so horrible and offensive to the PvE side. If we could play rated WFs, we'd have another path to getting gear and we'd have fun, competitive PvP.

    And with rated WFs maybe we could finally cut down on those ridiculously lopsided games where one team wipes and quits within the first two minutes, and/or goes lemming mode and feeds the other team kills. There are way too many games like that, and no incentive to win, because you get favor anyway.
    Arete@Threesprings - Starslight@Wolfsbane

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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetSeoul View Post
    Thank you I didn't realize you could queue CQ as a group.
    Click through the video and find the parts where his raid isn't pveing. Took me awhile too.

    wooo CQ

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    Rift Chaser Ayronamic's Avatar
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    These are valid points that have existed for so long, and it's quite obvious that for now in SL this will continue (hence their silence and no mention of specific PvP features).
    There was recently an inverview where Rift was described as a service, that they had the mindset and ability to continously provide through meaningful content for the crowd. While this is somewhat true, it certainly doesnt cater to the PvP side. And even the most nosey PvEr sometimes want to try out some PvP as well.

    The answer to their silence is simple, they simply dont have a rough plan of how to approach PvP. Not entirely because they dont know, it's also about will, because if there was will there'd be ranked WF's long time ago.
    I also liked your example of how CQ worked in the start, where people could farm their way to the top in about 2 3 days.
    Last edited by Ayronamic; 10-15-2012 at 03:19 AM.
    Bloodiron - Ayronamic

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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetSeoul View Post
    - The lack of any viable way to queue with friends and play PvP socially, especially since this is an MMO
    - The existing penalties for queueing with more than one person
    - The complete reliance on a grind, every time a new PvP patch is released
    - The lack of any competitive play, even rated Warfronts
    - Shifting major PvP rewards over to Conquest, which means some players like me, with 162k lifetime kills, still don't have all the PvP gear because we can't commit to playing 3-hour matches to grind for tokens
    Ok... so all of your complaints outside of the grind/cq ones would be pretty much solved by an arena. Group queues can be done for warfronts but you need a group queueing on the other side - its not a penalty, its a safe-guard so that you cant steam roll pugs all day. Shame that they cant deal with sync queueing quite so effectively. However. queueing as a duo wont hinder you in any way apart from borking the ranked matches.

    As far as conquest is concerned... i hate conquest, completely detest it. If any pvp gear requires conquest in storm legion i think i'll be living with being under-geared. I dont mind ranking slower through warfronts compared to CQ - just dont make me suffer for gear too. Its unfortunate but forced conquest grinding will only push more people away from Rift PvP.

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    Rift Chaser Voidmind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pett View Post
    Ok... so all of your complaints outside of the grind/cq ones would be pretty much solved by an arena. Group queues can be done for warfronts but you need a group queueing on the other side - its not a penalty, its a safe-guard so that you cant steam roll pugs all day. Shame that they cant deal with sync queueing quite so effectively. However. queueing as a duo wont hinder you in any way apart from borking the ranked matches.

    As far as conquest is concerned... i hate conquest, completely detest it. If any pvp gear requires conquest in storm legion i think i'll be living with being under-geared. I dont mind ranking slower through warfronts compared to CQ - just dont make me suffer for gear too. Its unfortunate but forced conquest grinding will only push more people away from Rift PvP.
    Couldn't agree more, in fact if I didn't take advantage of the unintended results of the first few days of CQ...I doubt I would have the trinket today, CQ was horrible straight off the press and after countless hot fixes it is still so awful I don't even have the 2% stat increase from CQ power..
    it is not enough these days to question authority, you gotta speak with it too

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayronamic View Post
    These are valid points that have existed for so long, and it's quite obvious that for now in SL this will continue (hence their silence and no mention of specific PvP features).
    There was recently an inverview where Rift was described as a service, that they had the mindset and ability to continously provide through meaningful content for the crowd. While this is somewhat true, it certainly doesnt cater to the PvP side. And even the most nosey PvEr sometimes want to try out some PvP as well.

    The answer to their silence is simple, they simply dont have a rough plan of how to approach PvP. Not entirely because they dont know, it's also about will, because if there was will there'd be ranked WF's long time ago.
    I also liked your example of how CQ worked in the start, where people could farm their way to the top in about 2 3 days.
    PvP on the PTS is rather fun. I have not had so much fun in PvP since the max rank was Centurion or rank 6. The PvP we are seeing on the PTS will allow for competitive PvP such as Arena or Rated Warfronts. I'm very excited now! I can not wait to see which form of end game PvP they choose to go wth.

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    Also, IF you are in the beta, check out the PVP achievment section under warfronts. =)

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    General of Telara Ashh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    Click through the video and find the parts where his raid isn't pveing. Took me awhile too.

    wooo CQ
    lol yeah, did you see the part where I had the stone and almost fell to my death

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    I would like this post a thousand times if it would let me.
    Marduke

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisN View Post
    PvP on the PTS is rather fun. I have not had so much fun in PvP since the max rank was Centurion or rank 6. The PvP we are seeing on the PTS will allow for competitive PvP such as Arena or Rated Warfronts. I'm very excited now! I can not wait to see which form of end game PvP they choose to go wth.
    There you go again with all the WoW talk. Give it a rest or go back to WoW bro

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hashashin View Post
    There you go again with all the WoW talk. Give it a rest or go back to WoW bro
    please refer to my avatar.
    Zoartype@Deepwood

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