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Thread: Guild vs. Guild pvp

  1. #31
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    Not when the objective forces them elsewhere. CTF has defense and offense and domination has multiple points.
    Interesting, then, that people tend to stick together in Whitefall and Codex.~

    Though to be fair, I don't think the design of Codex and the population count in Whitefall help matters.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dkjester View Post
    YOu mean like Runes of magic's Siege........ assuming they ever got it out of "beta"?

    Or are you just curious what a real company could do with siege heh.
    Yeah if trion added runes of magic's Siege but obviously fixed it up and added there own personal touches that would be amazing. Generally Trion worlds needs to do more with Guilds and pvp then what they have in my opinion

  3. #33
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    As much as I like Rift, it does have some major shortcomings. We all know the PvP is as basic as it gets, but the lore and quests are pretty lacking too. They did a good job for solo players to do everything they need to do but it seems like they just stopped there and picked up again with team oriented play in raids only. I am really hoping that SL brings some of the things people talked about in this thread because these are the things that bring PvPers together. If not with SL launch, then at least look at ways to make PvP in Rift more than WF and CQ. I love to do both, but some major PvP quest lines, city invasions, guild vs guild etc would be a great way to flesh out the Rift PvP experience.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bliter View Post
    [...] but the lore and quests are pretty lacking too.
    As compared to...?
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapheros View Post
    Would much rather have the whole guild castle/siege thing going on than what the current conquest has degraded to. Same old warfronts got boring after a year. Here is to the hope they add some new ones with SL.
    I meant that as the fact i think siege was a good idea....

    However Runes of magic ruined this idea. They have hackers rampant. Wardens used to crash whole teams. Their stability of their servers now is laughable. They put a Line Of Sight patch in which runes effectiveness of a lot of classes. Gates now are immune to DoTs... which you Siege vets would remember that was one of the best ways to drop gates. People using Romeo-hack are seen everywhere and not punish. Lagging your client now is considered accepted. People sandbag their score to then ROFLStomp small guilds. People have 2 guilds and switch back and forth for easier sieges.


    Valk was a great guild and one i dont think anyone will ever touch... except maybe PewPewKittens... GOOO PEW PEW.

    What i mean is that Runes of magic has stated any problems with siege is cause "it is in beta" as an excuse to never work to fix it. I made the comment as to a REAL company doing siege.... That would be a tribute to Rift programmers putting in the work to fix a feature like siege. If you all missed that part... you havent played RoM in 6 months+, 12 months ago RoM siege was good.... Now it is completely horrible. Lots of nights winners dont get rewards cause it glitches. Towers dont show up. And Runewalker/Gameforge just say ... "well it is in beta"

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dkjester View Post
    I meant that as the fact i think siege was a good idea....

    However Runes of magic ruined this idea. They have hackers rampant. Wardens used to crash whole teams. Their stability of their servers now is laughable. They put a Line Of Sight patch in which runes effectiveness of a lot of classes. Gates now are immune to DoTs... which you Siege vets would remember that was one of the best ways to drop gates. People using Romeo-hack are seen everywhere and not punish. Lagging your client now is considered accepted. People sandbag their score to then ROFLStomp small guilds. People have 2 guilds and switch back and forth for easier sieges.


    Valk was a great guild and one i dont think anyone will ever touch... except maybe PewPewKittens... GOOO PEW PEW.

    What i mean is that Runes of magic has stated any problems with siege is cause "it is in beta" as an excuse to never work to fix it. I made the comment as to a REAL company doing siege.... That would be a tribute to Rift programmers putting in the work to fix a feature like siege. If you all missed that part... you havent played RoM in 6 months+, 12 months ago RoM siege was good.... Now it is completely horrible. Lots of nights winners dont get rewards cause it glitches. Towers dont show up. And Runewalker/Gameforge just say ... "well it is in beta"
    Boooo gates immune to DoTs?.... way to nerf Rogue/Scout bleeds ... about time lol hope somebody got fired,bleeds weren't affected by gate dmg reduction, I could solo gates by myself and go perma-stealth. Main reason why I came to play Rift, RoM was a great game run by a company that didn't care and just wanted more money. I hope Trion never gets like that with their cash shop, Arenanet will when the population starts dwindling eventually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delmlord View Post
    Boooo gates immune to DoTs?.... way to nerf Rogue/Scout bleeds ... about time lol hope somebody got fired,bleeds weren't affected by gate dmg reduction, I could solo gates by myself and go perma-stealth. Main reason why I came to play Rift, RoM was a great game run by a company that didn't care and just wanted more money. I hope Trion never gets like that with their cash shop, Arenanet will when the population starts dwindling eventually.
    Ohh but heals still heal it. Yea it REALLY nerfed R/s uber pwning gates. It was a great dynamic in siege to make sure your gates were defended and having towers and eyes for rogues or you lose you Factories... and OMGowned. A lot of the skill in siege seems to have been removed. Between that and knights getting the nerf stick and wardens (LOL) getting a huge buff. Wd/S are nuts spamming charged chop and owning 200k health R/Ks in no time and Iceblade spamming P/S.... It is a sad affair.

    I would love to see what Trion could do with siege idea

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    Interesting, then, that people tend to stick together in Whitefall and Codex.~

    Though to be fair, I don't think the design of Codex and the population count in Whitefall help matters.
    As far as CTF goes in both WoW/Rift/etc, it kinda surprised me that people never really bothered to defend at all, whereas in a fps game, it's expected to have both offense and defense. But that's mostly because of the game mechanics, plus the fact that in a mmorpg, it's far better to be together than to have a split force in many cases.

    Most games I usually see is where both sides just ride into each other's base to pickup the flag, only to fight on the way back to their own base. Occasionally, you'll get a team where they will fight early on, perhaps to avoid the flag carrier deadlock/stand off.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adastra View Post
    As far as CTF goes in both WoW/Rift/etc, it kinda surprised me that people never really bothered to defend at all, whereas in a fps game, it's expected to have both offense and defense. But that's mostly because of the game mechanics, plus the fact that in a mmorpg, it's far better to be together than to have a split force in many cases.
    This is partially because of the player count in both games. If you look at any sort of structured CTF in a non-simulation shooter, it tends to hinge around 3v3 or 5v5 matchups (depending on the game), with players split in some kind of formation (which leans towards 2-1-2 or 2-0-3 [Defence-Midfield/Hybrid-Offence]).

    If you look at pug matches, and especially larger population matches, you tend to have far more people playing D (and herding up) than playing O (because offence is hard). MMOs, interestingly, go for the opposite approach, where people herd up on O and avoid playing D. Part of that has to do with the difficulty of picking up a flag solo (not an issue in shooters) as well as the class structure (the trinity system, for example) emphasizing people moving together as a unit and overwhelming healing with sheer numbers.

    MMO CTF could work quite well with a shooter-style map, smaller populations (5v5 CTF would be totally boss), and a change to the pickup/recovery mechanics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adastra View Post
    Most games I usually see is where both sides just ride into each other's base to pickup the flag, only to fight on the way back to their own base. Occasionally, you'll get a team where they will fight early on, perhaps to avoid the flag carrier deadlock/stand off.
    Replace "most games" with "all games, especially after the runner spec nerf" and you've got my experience, too.
    Last edited by Kyera; 10-03-2012 at 05:54 AM.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    This is partially because of the player count in both games. If you look at any sort of structured CTF in a non-simulation shooter, it tends to hinge around 3v3 or 5v5 matchups (depending on the game), with players split in some kind of formation (which leans towards 2-1-2 or 2-0-3 [Defence-Midfield/Hybrid-Offence]).

    If you look at pug matches, and especially larger population matches, you tend to have far more people playing D (and herding up) than playing O (because offence is hard). MMOs, interestingly, go for the opposite approach, where people herd up on O and avoid playing D. Part of that has to do with the difficulty of picking up a flag solo (not an issue in shooters) as well as the class structure (the trinity system, for example) emphasizing people moving together as a unit and overwhelming healing with sheer numbers.

    MMO CTF could work quite well with a shooter-style map, smaller populations (5v5 CTF would be totally boss), and a change to the pickup/recovery mechanics.



    Replace "most games" with "all games, especially after the runner spec nerf" and you've got my experience, too.
    Yeah, I agree for the most part as far as why offense is probably preferred. Because if you send too little offense, someone sneezing on you would prevent a flag grab. Like you said, not an issue in a fps since running over the flag picks it up. Not to mention all players are equally lethal to each other (ignoring skill differences here).

    I would be interested in seeing a smaller CTF team to see how that works (would also need a much smaller map too). I could see a 10v10 working if perhaps some CTF mechanics were changed too. I personally don't like the flow of CTF in WoW/Rift, because things like flag carrier deadlocks/stand offs slow the pace of the game down.
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  11. #41
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    Offense in whitefall would be fine if respawn didn't have direct access to the flag.

    Anytime you to try to go offense you end up getting dumped on by anyone that your turtled defense killed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    As compared to...?
    EQ 2 for instance. 10-20 hours for mythical weapon quests, and that was dedicated solo work, not including the group/raid elements(prerequisites and faction grinding not included either). Lore wise, they were just ridiculous, I know they had EQ to build on but you always had a quest to do or some event going. EQ 2 was too much lore though, being competitive their is a full time job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    I never understood why such a thing had been taken out in many modern mmos.

    But considering many modern mmos are solo games its bit surprising. Not to mention most modern games takes out 90% of the politics giving less true reason for guild wars to even exist.

    MMO's went mainstream. Now most people look at MMO's as just another console game, only there are more people standing round. This is why MMO's have become more casual and single player friendly.

    And then there's the fact that there's so much more competition nowadays. Between WoW sucking up the majority of players, f2p games and everything else, it's hard to consolidate enough "hard core" players in one game to support this type of play style.

    Not saying it can't be done or that it shouldn't be done. I'd be all for it. It's just that something like this would take a bit of time gathering momentum and, as far as most game game companies are concerned, it's just easier and more profitable to go the route they are going nowadays.
    Last edited by Meina; 10-03-2012 at 12:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baramos View Post
    There have been plenty of guilds who have organized guild vs guild fights for 1-4 hours long in the past. Don't wait for Trion to add something, get some friends together and contact another guild with a time and a place.
    I agree. This is Rift not Guild Wars or Tera! And how is GvG going to be implemented in a PvE server?
    Last edited by Oblivion333; 10-03-2012 at 01:18 PM.

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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bliter View Post
    EQ 2 for instance. 10-20 hours for mythical weapon quests, and that was dedicated solo work, not including the group/raid elements(prerequisites and faction grinding not included either). Lore wise, they were just ridiculous, I know they had EQ to build on but you always had a quest to do or some event going. EQ 2 was too much lore though, being competitive their is a full time job.

    Anyone from Nagafen?
    I'll have to take your word that "lore wise, they were just ridiculous", since that doesn't really tell me anything but I honestly don't care enough to argue the point further. I'm also not quite sure what "too much lore" has to do with being competitive.

    I also don't consider time-investment to be a benchmark for determining whether or not a quest is lacking, but I'll assume that you mean 10-20 hours of unique, story and lore-driven, innovative questing and not 10-20 hours of the types of quests we're already doing for the sake of my sanity.
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