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Thread: Rogue + Warrior Versus Mage + Cleric

  1. #1
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Default Rogue + Warrior Versus Mage + Cleric

    There is a huge amount of bias towards rogues and warriors in this game in PvP

    For the past 6-8 weeks the damage tables for top50 warfront damage has been approximately the same or similar.

    Id like to illustrate the huge injustice here in the language of math.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img16/7853/damagee.jpg

    No QQing over one particular ability, no player "skill" factor, pure simple mathematics.

    Argue away! :P
    Last edited by V1rul3n7; 09-26-2012 at 11:25 PM.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

  2. #2
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Those stats don't illustrate or prove any point.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  3. #3
    Ascendant micshaz's Avatar
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    you should do one for healer, you might be surprised at the incredible bias towards rogues and warriors

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    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by micshaz View Post
    you should do one for healer, you might be surprised at the incredible bias towards rogues and warriors
    Well actually not only is dulcamara number 1 and clearly ahead in DPS terms but he/she is also at rank 4 for "Warfront Total Healing" clearly loving fell blades :P

    What's your point?
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara Dee Dee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    Well actually not only is dulcamara number 1 and clearly ahead in DPS terms but he/she is also at rank 4 for "Warfront Total Healing" clearly loving fell blades :P

    What's your point?
    he is ranged :P

  6. #6
    Ascendant micshaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    Well actually not only is dulcamara number 1 and clearly ahead in DPS terms but he/she is also at rank 4 for "Warfront Total Healing" clearly loving fell blades :P

    What's your point?
    you must not have any sabs if a bladedancer is ahead in DPS on EU.

    I suppose my point is, with the multiclass system it's pretty hard to avoid - I agree there's a lot more rogues and warriors up there but in your particular example this is just a question of activity, with that amount of damage done in a week? (i'm assuming) even frequently using potions and other heals would give you an obnoxious amount of healing on the leaderboards.
    Last edited by micshaz; 09-27-2012 at 12:50 AM. Reason: elaborating

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara Dee Dee's Avatar
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    indeed, he is a good dps rogue, not because is on that leaderboard, that plays at range

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    Champion Bizar's Avatar
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    Too many variables unaccounted for. To name a few:
    1. % population that make up each class
    2. % of each class playing particular roles (bard support, chloro heals, cleric heals, warrior tank builds e.t.c)
    3. AoE vs ST damage. You really need average damage per target per warfront (or some sort of average, normalised figure) to draw a reasonable comparison.
    4. Average warfront playtime per class

    I admire your attempt to do this in a more statistical manner. However no reasonable (or particularly astounding) conclusions can be drawn from this set of data.
    Biz - L60/P81 Warrior

  9. #9
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    That isn't a weeks worth of damage, that's just wednesdays damage, im going to cross compare it next tuesday to see how it pans out (and if there is any alteration) then ill do another one next week on wednesday and the following tuesday.

    I cant see WHY im bothering really to be honest, the top50 warfront damage board has been kinda the same for weeks on end and nobody has actually said anything.

    Probably because you all love rogue and warrior too much :P

    Which explains some of the poor counter arguement's to a DPS board completely full of rogues and warriors.

    And whats all this AoE fluff nonesense about, its not like mages and clerics dont AoE too you know.. infact they could sit there and just do nothing but AoE but they probably still wouldn't show up on those boards.

    Like i say, its been the same for weeks on end, yellow and red all over.

    Ill keep doing it though, just to prove a point (and to show how completely biased some forum dwellers are.)
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

  10. #10
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizar View Post
    Too many variables unaccounted for. To name a few:
    1. % population that make up each class
    2. % of each class playing particular roles (bard support, chloro heals, cleric heals, warrior tank builds e.t.c)
    3. AoE vs ST damage. You really need average damage per target per warfront (or some sort of average, normalised figure) to draw a reasonable comparison.
    4. Average warfront playtime per class

    I admire your attempt to do this in a more statistical manner. However no reasonable (or particularly astounding) conclusions can be drawn from this set of data.
    1. Largely irrelevant, people usually play the more powerful classes (infact a huge amount of clerics and mages have re-rolled warrior or rogue for just that reason, which is WHY the rogue/warrior numbers are so inflated)

    2. Its the top40, roles are largely irrelevant since its a statistical average across the callings, if it isn't a "good" spec then it wont be in the top40.

    3. Each calling is capable of both AoE and ST dps, of course different situations account for different types of DPS but the top40 damage board naturally takes this into account because each person on it has faced pretty much the exact same kind of scenario, if AoE DPS was taking precedence here then cabalist or stormcaller should be on top of course the opposite is clearly obvious.

    4. It's the top40, they are all probably playing around the same amount of time.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

  11. #11
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Dee View Post
    indeed, he is a good dps rogue, not because is on that leaderboard, that plays at range
    He actually plays melee spec most of the time.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

  12. #12
    Champion of Telara kronor's Avatar
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    Dont bother with those leaderboards virulent, i was number 2 on kb streaks,kills and total damage after 2 days of derping around in wfs and like 6th best healing as a warrior?

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    Ascendant micshaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    That isn't a weeks worth of damage, that's just wednesdays damage, im going to cross compare it next tuesday to see how it pans out (and if there is any alteration) then ill do another one next week on wednesday and the following tuesday.

    I cant see WHY im bothering really to be honest, the top50 warfront damage board has been kinda the same for weeks on end and nobody has actually said anything.

    Probably because you all love rogue and warrior too much :P

    Which explains some of the poor counter arguement's to a DPS board completely full of rogues and warriors.

    And whats all this AoE fluff nonesense about, its not like mages and clerics dont AoE too you know.. infact they could sit there and just do nothing but AoE but they probably still wouldn't show up on those boards.

    Like i say, its been the same for weeks on end, yellow and red all over.

    Ill keep doing it though, just to prove a point (and to show how completely biased some forum dwellers are.)
    just because you seem kind of clueless and bad, i'm going to get on the top 50 all time on my R1 mage next week to prove you wrong. And there's not a thing you can do to prove me wrong.
    And for the lulz i'm going to be visible on the healing leaderboards as well.
    Last edited by micshaz; 09-27-2012 at 05:05 AM. Reason: additionally

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Euthan's Avatar
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    Are you really using the leaderboards as a statistical reference to prove something?

    *Please refer to kronor's avatar*
    ~~ Euthan ~~

  15. #15
    Champion Bizar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    1. Largely irrelevant, people usually play the more powerful classes (infact a huge amount of clerics and mages have re-rolled warrior or rogue for just that reason, which is WHY the rogue/warrior numbers are so inflated)

    2. Its the top40, roles are largely irrelevant since its a statistical average across the callings, if it isn't a "good" spec then it wont be in the top40.

    3. Each calling is capable of both AoE and ST dps, of course different situations account for different types of DPS but the top40 damage board naturally takes this into account because each person on it has faced pretty much the exact same kind of scenario, if AoE DPS was taking precedence here then cabalist or stormcaller should be on top of course the opposite is clearly obvious.

    4. It's the top40, they are all probably playing around the same amount of time.
    1. Of course its relevant. Unless each class is 25% of the population then you are going to have skewed representation in the top 50 players.

    2. If the pool of DPS Clerics is lower than the pool of DPS Warriors then the number of Warriors in the top 50 could become artificially skewed. Similar to number 1 but in terms of role rather than class.

    3. Cabalist and Stormcaller may just not be prevalent specs in warfronts. You can't back up statistical data with unfounded assumptions.

    4. There is absolutely no way to know that. Again it is an unfounded assumption. I could play twice as long but do half as much total damage as someone else playing half as long as me.

    Damage leaderboards, in the current form, are not a suitable source of statistical data.
    Last edited by Bizar; 09-27-2012 at 06:09 AM.
    Biz - L60/P81 Warrior

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