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Thread: Another week of Conquest stalemate ...

  1. #1
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    Default Another week of Conquest stalemate ...

    no changes to winning conditions ... dissapointing ...

    well another week of playing only warfronts instead i guess ^^

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    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Why not use those awesome skills and team work you keep talking about to win?

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    you cant win with need to hold 2/3 of the objectives against 2 factions.

    Its like you ask federer why he doesnt win against dokjuvic and nadal as team in 3 sets ...

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    Ascendant Lords0fpain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos View Post
    no changes to winning conditions ... dissapointing ...

    well another week of playing only warfronts instead i guess ^^
    started a similar, awesome they couldn't drop the stinking thing by 5%, for a week to see how it worked...

    To much to ask...I guess

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...k-i-guess.html

    feel free to delete, didn't have CQ in title, not sure who started tread 1st. More responses here, tho (saying the basically the same thing)...lol

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    Ascendant Lords0fpain's Avatar
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    words of wisdom...

    Papa Bear's bed is too hard (65%)
    Mama Bear's bed is too soft (55%)
    but...
    Baby Bear's bed (60%) maybe be just right....hmmm. let's give it the ole college try, shall we...

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    It doesn't matter how long conquest is it will still be to long for some. Some people I will call the PVErs just want marks and iss. Since the vast majority of marks are awarded at the end of conquest those people will want to get there as fast as possible.

    They need to create a system that spreads the rewards throughout. They also need to somehow tie the winning conditions to kills. If 0 kills are necessary to win then there will be people (the PVEers) that will try to end the game as fast as possible and not waste time killing. Which is also part of the reason the games last so long. They just go around and around taking and retaking extractors. If they actually engaged in fighting they could start the timer in 30 minutes via the kill counter.

    Conquest is broke. They need to make it so there is never any reason for a PVEer to join it. They end up ruining it for the people that actually want to PVP. Or in the alternative make it so if they do join the most beneficial path for a PVEer is to engage in PVP. Beneficial to them is fast marks and iss. So tie marks and iss to kills. Get rid of conquest power for everything except kills. Bump it up to like 10 a kill. That change would result in more pvping or a lot of *****ing.

  7. #7
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    i like the changes they've made to conquest. long matches are fun if there's lots of pvp involved. 65% might be a bit too much, 60% might be more realistic. the queues are the major problem right now and are the reason i don't play conquest anymore. they said random queues aren't going to happen any time soon which is understandable considering they're working on storm legion. as it stands now, the last few times i tried to join conquest, nightfall was full/queue'd, oathsworn and dominion were open to join. so yeah, hopefully they're taking all this into consideration for whatever plans they have for conquest type instances in storm legion.

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    Ascendant Lords0fpain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankjb100 View Post
    It doesn't matter how long conquest is it will still be to long for some. Some people I will call the PVErs just want marks and iss. Since the vast majority of marks are awarded at the end of conquest those people will want to get there as fast as possible.

    They need to create a system that spreads the rewards throughout. They also need to somehow tie the winning conditions to kills. If 0 kills are necessary to win then there will be people (the PVEers) that will try to end the game as fast as possible and not waste time killing. Which is also part of the reason the games last so long. They just go around and around taking and retaking extractors. If they actually engaged in fighting they could start the timer in 30 minutes via the kill counter.

    Conquest is broke. They need to make it so there is never any reason for a PVEer to join it. They end up ruining it for the people that actually want to PVP. Or in the alternative make it so if they do join the most beneficial path for a PVEer is to engage in PVP. Beneficial to them is fast marks and iss. So tie marks and iss to kills. Get rid of conquest power for everything except kills. Bump it up to like 10 a kill. That change would result in more pvping or a lot of *****ing.

    Agree with most of what you said, but pvpers need the marks for the gear, as well. With 4 to 7 hour matches, takes some people out of being able to join and complete a cq during the week. If the rewards are for what you actually do and not back loaded, the length would not matter.

    Currently, I need 860 marks (out of 1060) to get the 2 runes and 2 essences. As it stands, I only have weekends to get the marks. I don't mind spending 2 or 3 hours in a match, but not 5 or 6, then get gipped because I can't be there at the end.

    With sl coming out, a median could be reached by changing the % now, then they could make any major changes with the xpac.

    Sorry for any typos, on my phone...lol.
    Last edited by Lords0fpain; 09-26-2012 at 04:13 PM.

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    Sword of Telara Shibi's Avatar
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    Even with 65% the game is over in 10 minutes.

    20 people queue for Oath, 4 for Dom and none for NF. Most people not playing are in the Oath queue and can't get in.

    Oath capture 85-95% of all extractors within 7 minutes from the game starting and the PvE portion starts.

    I don't know how you guys are seeing balanced long games with the destruction of CM taking out NF as a desirable queue team.
    Last edited by Shibi; 09-26-2012 at 07:34 PM.

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    Ascendant Jeffreys's Avatar
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    Trion really ought to say something. Acknowledge the issue and indicate some intent to fix it.

    I'm currently waiting, 40 minutes now, to join the dominant faction. Why not just join another faction? Because you get farmed, get no reward, and get no fun. You have to be a masochist to join the non-dominant faction.

    At least before today's change, you could snag some MoC at the end of the match.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shibi View Post
    I don't know how you guys are seeing balanced long games with the destruction of CM taking out NF as a desirable queue team.
    We're playing in a different battlegroup. There are 3 battlegroups (2 US, 1 EU), and each one plays CQ slightly differently.

    And OT: I have to agree with Antigonos; 65% is too high.

    It's not *solely* the win %: the changes to extractors and turrets that happened at the same time (longer to kill, harder for a small group to kill a turreted extractor) AND the removal of lots of extractors all combined to make capping not viable.

    As I said a week or so ago: any game with n teams needs n-1 winning strategies. 55% was too low, because capping became the only viable strategy; 65% is too high, as capping is no longer viable (assuming people play the game as intended). So for the next round of CQ changes I'd implore a change to a 60% capping target. Adding more extractors or reducing their survivability would also help; but changing to 60% would probably be the simplest change - making capping AND killing both viable strategies again, and thus making any 2 factions attractive to play.

    In my ideal (Rift) world, Daglar makes changes to CQ each week until an equilibrium is reached - and then keeps making changes weekly, just to mix things up. CQ is the only space of dynamic, emergent play in Rift (now that OPvP is dead) and I'd love to see it iterated and improved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffreys View Post
    Trion really ought to say something. Acknowledge the issue and indicate some intent to fix it.

    I'm currently waiting, 40 minutes now, to join the dominant faction. Why not just join another faction? Because you get farmed, get no reward, and get no fun. You have to be a masochist to join the non-dominant faction.

    At least before today's change, you could snag some MoC at the end of the match.
    I haven't been able to get in either lately. Exactly same problem. I don't need the grief and frustration awaiting those few souls who are willing to join the non-dominant faction, so now I cannot get in at all. Or should I say "were" willing. The dominant faction (on my cluster, Oath) kills anything red even during the foci phase. When the dead could rise, it had to be tough to get anything tagged, but with no respawns, I'm betting impossible. Who would join Dom/NF now?
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    random queues are inevitable, its because gamers have become to much of wtj players, so you NEED to diverse them system wise (unfortunatly).

    60% and 2 more objectives at cm. this imho would be a good next step. let this be played 2-3 weeks and then look at data and feedback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos View Post
    you cant win with need to hold 2/3 of the objectives against 2 factions.

    Its like you ask federer why he doesnt win against dokjuvic and nadal as team in 3 sets ...
    Sounds a bit like the arguement as to why warriors and rogues aren't overpowered.

    "Hey bro, you're dieing because you need moar skill nothing to do with base game mechanics"

    But wait-a-min.. IS THIS BASE GAME MECHANICS OVER-RIDING SKILL?!

    Why yes... yes it is :P
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    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    Sounds a bit like the arguement as to why warriors and rogues aren't overpowered.

    "Hey bro, you're dieing because you need moar skill nothing to do with base game mechanics"

    But wait-a-min.. IS THIS BASE GAME MECHANICS OVER-RIDING SKILL?!

    Why yes... yes it is :P
    its simple math?

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