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Thread: A small suggestion guaranteed to make PvP'ers happy.

  1. #1
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Default A small suggestion guaranteed to make PvP'ers happy.

    Conquest is a nice idea, but clearly people do not like it.
    Far too big, far too open at times, and not enough motivation.

    So...you remove CQ entirely.

    Rather than stillmoor, you use Greenscale's blight.

    You get two teams, three teams if you are feeling adventurous.
    If you are feeling even more adventurous, you can even use parts of the maze! O.O


    Each team is against each other, and only 1 life is given to each team member.
    When a person dies, they stay dead until 1 side is left standing.
    The team left standing receives 1 point.

    When this occurs, everyone is respawned, and the battle begins anew.
    First to three points wins.

    I can guarantee that this will be the most played Map.
    I can almost guarantee that people will say "WOMG TRION YOU ARE AMAZING!"

    Now I know critics will say "OMG TEAM DEATH MATCH? SO BORING! IT DON'T WORK WITH MMO'S!"

    Well to this I say.
    You hate everything else and say it is PvE when anything objective based is provided, obviously you want to bludgeon each other to death, so why stop you?

    I am sure Trion will also think
    "This user must be foolish. It isn't original, it isn't creative, and it doesn't really make people play differently from other games. Our users may get bored and we want them to stick around, to enjoy the experience we are trying to offer them. We want them to have fun, to enjoy themselves, to break away from the monotony of TDM based PvP. "

    To this I say "You don't need to be."
    People do not want you to be creative. In fact, they do not want you to be creative, because what they see as creative is simply not the same.

    What people want as creative is not that of changing the objective
    Nay, what they want is design and appearance.
    Take a flat map, give it two more floors, then drop some trees, some sand.
    Take that map, revamp it, make it winter based.

    They will like it. They may say they don't, but in reality, they enjoy it.


    Edit: In retrospect, I forgot to ask for Likes. Provide them please, I want to see if I can hit a limit of likes for a single post. Yes even if you hit me click that like button. I have a GIF I want to use!
    Last edited by Aguni; 09-24-2012 at 09:49 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    Conquest is a nice idea, but clearly people do not like it.
    Far too big, far too open at times, and not enough motivation.

    So...you remove CQ entirely.

    Rather than stillmoor, you use Greenscale's blight.

    You get two teams, three teams if you are feeling adventurous.
    If you are feeling even more adventurous, you can even use parts of the maze! O.O


    Each team is against each other, and only 1 life is given to each team member.
    When a person dies, they stay dead until 1 side is left standing.
    The team left standing receives 1 point.

    When this occurs, everyone is respawned, and the battle begins anew.
    First to three points wins.

    I can guarantee that this will be the most played Map.
    I can almost guarantee that people will say "WOMG TRION YOU ARE AMAZING!"

    Now I know critics will say "OMG TEAM DEATH MATCH? SO BORING! IT DON'T WORK WITH MMO'S!"

    Well to this I say.
    You hate everything else and say it is PvE when anything objective based is provided, obviously you want to bludgeon each other to death, so why stop you?

    I am sure Trion will also think
    "This user must be foolish. It isn't original, it isn't creative, and it doesn't really make people play differently from other games. Our users may get bored and we want them to stick around, to enjoy the experience we are trying to offer them. We want them to have fun, to enjoy themselves, to break away from the monotony of TDM based PvP. "

    To this I say "You don't need to be."
    People do not want you to be creative. In fact, they do not want you to be creative, because what they see as creative is simply not the same.

    What people want as creative is not that of changing the objective
    Nay, what they want is design and appearance.
    Take a flat map, give it two more floors, then drop some trees, some sand.
    Take that map, revamp it, make it winter based.

    They will like it. They may say they don't, but in reality, they enjoy it.


    Edit: In retrospect, I forgot to ask for Likes. Provide them please, I want to see if I can hit a limit of likes for a single post. Yes even if you hit me click that like button. I have a GIF I want to use!
    "Clearly people don't like Conquest"?

    I suppose that's why two of the three factions are instantaneously queued every match and even in the unqueued faction there are multiple full raids every single game. You mistake "complaints about certain aspects of Conquest" with "lol people hate Conquest". We do not hate Conquest - we simply want to see some modest improvements and Trion is getting there.

    As for your deathmatch idea, I'm all for it. I think a deathmatch Warfront or, *gasp*, Arena would do quite well in this game.
    Moved on from Rift due to: Rift's PvP being a mindless, skilless zerg that has been and will continue to be perpetuated and reinforced :: A horribly optimized engine :: My personal distaste for F2P (already heading down the P2W path) after giving it a fair shake. Rift is an exceptional MMO by an overachieving development team that unfortunately is ruined by a few personally show-stopping issues.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synovia View Post
    "Clearly people don't like Conquest"?

    I suppose that's why two of the three factions are instantaneously queued every match and even in the unqueued faction there are multiple full raids every single game. You mistake "complaints about certain aspects of Conquest" with "lol people hate Conquest". We do not hate Conquest - we simply want to see some modest improvements and Trion is getting there.
    Wrong, you are mistaking Extrinsic motivation for Intrinsic motivation.
    People do not do Conquest because they genuinely enjoy it.
    They play Conquest for the rewards it provides

    As for your statement regarding two factions, this is false.
    You are making the argument of correlation being connected to enjoyment.
    This is flat out wrong.

    People choose factions based on the rewards they receive

    For example, start of CQ. Oath and Dom and NF were nice and full.
    People realize you can spawn camp.
    Oath and Dom go full, NF remains with empty slots while they get spawn camped to hell and back.

    CQ changes are introduced.

    Now Nightfall/Oathsworn are full.

    Now the latest changes have caused the following.
    Dom/Oathsworn being full, NIghtfall having plenty of empty spots.

    People join teams because they want the rewards, they don't do it for flavor. If it was for flavor, obviously you would not see such an obvious swing in popularity for a faction.
    If they genuinely enjoyed it, people would not be willing to sit in a queue for a single faction, they would join any faction and talk about how it was such an amazing system.


    When you consider the fact that there is point decay, and the long amount of time to obtain runes/essence/trinket, then naturally you can maintain your population relatively easily. They have to invest a large amount of time after all, and with the high cooldown, this becomes even easier.

    This does not mean people enjoy it.
    It means people want their carrot.

    As for people suggesting tweaks, I disagree.
    People want change in the name of their own benefit. They don't want change in the name of improving overall PvP.

    Edit: You forgot to like my post by the way. Get to it.
    Last edited by Aguni; 09-24-2012 at 10:03 AM.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    I don't think people hate Conquest, and I also don't think people love it either. There are always multiple raids and its full because it is needed to progress. If Marks could be achieved through WF's at an equal pace along with Prestige/Favor I have a feeling CQ wouldn't be as populated as it is now. I think Trion wants us to play it and Marks are you're carrot on a stick for people to keep playing it.

    I think the majority of the player base actually plays it for the rewards we need and probably feel indifferent to it. In all honesty if I had all my p50 gear with CQ perks I would only go in once in a while and only then it would be to stop the decay on the cq perks.

  5. #5
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    Another instance.

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    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synovia View Post
    "Clearly people don't like Conquest"?

    I suppose that's why two of the three factions are instantaneously queued every match and even in the unqueued faction there are multiple full raids every single game.
    Though I don't disagree with your message, I have to wonder which grouping you're seeing this level of activity in. Every time I dip into NF on the Wolfsbane cluster to eke out my free "thanks for playing" lewts in between exhilarating rounds of PvA and PvPA, there seems to be like a raid and a half of wrist cutty kids.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    Another instance.
    Instances are the best way to make the PvP be something other than zerging/ganking.
    Raenryong@Deepwood R69 ~ Amathys@Zaviel (Rogue)
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    Ascendant LOveRH's Avatar
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    I am a player who wanted conquest to work. I really did but when the developers went to try to make hundreds of players play the way they wanted to, it becomes extremely challenging. I like how my friend put it last night when we are having a debate over conquest. "Trion can always try to reward players for playing the way want to but that doesn't always work out because they physically control the players." Or something to that nature. I see it this way.

    Player on forums: "I WANT MORE PVP. CAPPING IS HARD."
    Next Patch: *increase the amount of Pres/favor for kills*
    That week: Player on forums- "OATH IS FARMING NONE OF US CAN STOP THEM, CAN'T WIN GAME."
    Next Patch: *increase the amount of pres/favor/CQ energy on extractors and decrease the amount for kills*
    Next Week: Player on forums- "I WANT MORE PVP. CAPPING IS HARD."

    And repeat.


    See where i'm going with this? It's really hard to balance an unbalanced map and control what players do in it when it comes to hundreds of players. I commend Trion for trying but it will take a lot more hotfixes to conquest to make it fun for everyone. =/ GL TRION.
    Last edited by LOveRH; 09-24-2012 at 10:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raen Ryong View Post
    Instances are the best way to make the PvP be something other than zerging/ganking.
    Sounds like a play pin.

  10. #10
    Mei
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    Obligatory arena comment
    Fluent

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    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mei View Post
    Obligatory arena comment
    With how apt people were to soul recall out of losing 5v5 BGs, I still am not convinced that arena will go over all that well.~
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  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara
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    Nice idea Aguni.

    I think that Rift needs more guild competition in PvP. Here are some of my ideas from other thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokken` View Post

    Here are my ideas (rip-off from other mmos) for PvP server:

    - remove factions completely
    - implement FFA PvP with some low lvl protection system (penalty for killing someone with lower level than you)
    - change guild perks and CQ perks to PvE only
    - implement new guild PvP levels with new perks - valor, vengance increase, run speed, reduce cd on break free, some cool pvp skills ect
    - implement guild wars (do not confuse with gw game)
    - killing a member of enemy guild gives you guild pvp points and you lose them if you got killed, you can also get those points for other pvp activities (but not from WF or CQ)
    - after reaching some guild pvp level points start to decay so your guild needs to pvp all the time if they wanna keep the highest lvl with best perks
    - implement guild sieges - put 1 or 2 keeps in high lvl zones (about 6 in total per server). Sieges can be done 2 times a week at a specified time only - it`s instanced and limited to 2 raids per attacker and defender. Siege machines, destroyable walls and gates ect. To take over you need to destroy some inner building (AoC style) or cast a spell for 5 mins in throne room (L2 style) or do sth else.
    - you can upgrade your keep to higher lvls (better walls, some defensive siege machines, extra guild perks) with pvp materials which you get from pvp quests or can be gathered from special zones. They can be also used to repair damages after siege. To upgrade you need mats but you also need to own the keep for some time and successfully defend it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    With how apt people were to soul recall out of losing 5v5 BGs, I still am not convinced that arena will go over all that well.~
    Well, at least people won't have to queue for that if they don't want to. Also if it's a 5v5 (or more) TDM and/or arena, they'll probably be queuing as a full group/raid anyway. That said, group queuing atm is largely based on the idea that there are tons of other people queuing as a group (hence why it currently horrible atm).
    White Fang

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  14. #14
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adastra View Post
    Well, at least people won't have to queue for that if they don't want to.
    These were the (edit: often 5v5) premade queues. :/
    Last edited by Kyera; 09-24-2012 at 10:48 AM.
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  15. #15
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    I'm fairly certain most people do not like CQ. The OP spoke for me when he asserted as much. When I asked people in my CQ group if they're having fun I never hear anyone say yes its great.

    I'm pretty much never going back in there until my CQ power drops too far. Thats all there is to do in there, now that the newness of it has worn off, since it is what it is.
    Imasu@randomshard

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