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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Has Trion given up with PvP?

  1. #31
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    That death match is the only PvP? ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    The age old argument of "If it something other than death match it must not be pvp".
    I am not sure how you got that out of the quote I referenced, which I referenced again. All I am saying is I am simply glad the creators of the game have a grasp on the definition of potentially interesting pvp and not some narrow minded view of what pvp only is. Like most the players who freak out if they have to do anything besides target a player and kill them. There is just such an epic lack of understanding of so many things that should be understood on the side of the player base. They don't know what they want at all.

    Go back in time when Quake 2/3 was popular and play CTF with the big timers. Ignore defense, offense and just kill players. You would never be accepted to a good team who is serious about the game. Quality PvP is not restricted to MMOs and is not restricted to simple kill counts. Fast forward, a team got mad at me for doing objectives and not just killing. How the world changes.
    Last edited by Violacea; 08-31-2012 at 02:43 PM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  2. #32
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    I am not sure how you got that out of the quote I referenced, which I referenced again. All I am saying is I am simply glad the creators of the game have a grasp on the definition of potentially interesting pvp and not some narrow minded view of what pvp only is. Like most the players who freak out if they have to do anything besides target a player and kill them. There is just such an epic lack of understanding of so many things that should be understood on the side of the player base. They don't know what they want at all.

    Go back in time when Quake 2/3 was popular and play CTF with the big timers. Ignore defense, offense and just kill players. You would never be accepted to a good team who is serious about the game. Quality PvP is not restricted to MMOs and is not restricted to simple kill counts. Fast forward, a team got mad at me for doing objectives and not just killing. How the world changes.
    Narrow minded or not, it is the kind of PvP I enjoy. I do not enjoy clicking towers.

  3. #33
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Enjoying it is not narrow minded. Saying anything but deathmatch is "pve" is.

    Don't get me wrong, I've been pushing for a deathmatch-esque rule set for a while. But I just go on principle >.< To me nothing beats simple Team Death Match, last man standing. ;)
    Last edited by Violacea; 08-31-2012 at 02:54 PM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Fast forward, a team got mad at me for doing objectives and not just killing. How the world changes.
    If you consider grabbing a stone in library and switching to bard spec and hiding pvp, then you must be crazy. I am not saying death-match needs to be the only option offered but for individuals who would like to simply have a 10 minute match to see who gets more kills, it would be a nice addition.
    Last edited by Fates; 08-31-2012 at 02:52 PM.

  5. #35
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fates View Post
    If you consider grabbing a stone in library and switching to bard spec and hiding pvp, then you must be crazy.
    That is not even close to what I would do after I grab a stone and I think anyone who does that is crazy.

    But I actually sort of meant, switching to RS spec, using all my burst run speed and ports to steal the nearby enemy vessel. Then having a team who can simply reliably take the 2 near us to kick the round off with a 3:1 vessel holding ratio, then you re-group and start the bloodshed.

    I was just....taking the match too serious though. I was trying to win like....I was on a competition ladder, or something. I don't care what I do, I don't care if I get 50 more kills than the other team. If at the end of the game is says the other team won, me and my team fail. There is nothing I hate more than losing.

    Death match would need more thought than raw implementation though. Already I can think of a lot of weird situations that would screw the pooch on the idea. It would need a more intricate rule set than removing the fang in BG and saying "kill till 50".

    ps. People, TDM is my favorite mod and I spent literally almost 8 years of my daily life playing TDM. You don't have to convince me it is a fun mod to play or that it would be interesting to try. I'm already ahead of you. ;P
    Last edited by Violacea; 08-31-2012 at 03:00 PM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  6. #36
    Champion iHunii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    The age old argument of "If it something other than death match it must not be pvp".

    In Rift, we have a variety of forms of PvP, most of them objective based in some way shape or form - that is unlikely to change. Every player is welcome to ignore the objectives given to them and kill others directly - tons of people do this already - ultimately you guys decide how you play in any given match or game mode.

    Not every aspect of PvP is for everyone - the target audience for Conquest is not the same target audience as Warfronts for example.

    ~Daglar
    Isn't PvP - player vs. Player and PvE player vs. environment, do you have raids that involve killing players? No. But in PvP you decide to put mini bosses into CQ and disrupt the whole game. I know that Rift is a PvE game, I like raiding but there is nothing more annoying than having your raid go off to kill a pathetic boss and lose or miss out on favor/prestige.
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  7. #37
    Ascendant Keota's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistacrowley420 View Post
    All day everyday.
    if they are saying that they wont implement something more then objective based pvp.

    then i say we haven't been steamrolling people hard enough to start crying yet for it. after every match we should emote

    "if you want this to stop ask Trion to give us something else to do".
    Zoartype@Deepwood

  8. #38
    Plane Walker Grimt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    Every player is welcome to ignore the objectives given to them and kill others directly - tons of people do this already - ultimately you guys decide how you play in any given match or game mode.

    Not every aspect of PvP is for everyone - the target audience for Conquest is not the same target audience as Warfronts for example.

    ~Daglar

    That comment makes me question whether Rift will ever get it right for PvP. Players certainly have the freedom to choose how they want to play the game, but you've set up the rewards in Conquest in such a manner that you are almost forcing teammates to approach the game differently among themselves. Favor and prestige is heavily skewed toward raw kills, and wins are heavily prioritized for marks. It certainly is not team play if everyone is trying to accomplish a different thing, so you've needlessly built frustration for most players into every match. How can you not understand that? Just read the chat during almost every Conquest match. Players are at each others' throats much of the time ... sometimes for stupid play, but mostly for simply playing differently because they have different motivations. I just don't see how it's the players' fault that the game is designed to put teammates at odds with each other. I had HUGE hopes for Conquest since I strongly prefer objective-based PvP above all other, but Conquest is so incoherent that now that I have everything I need from it I'd honestly prefer to play Codex or even Port Scion.

  9. #39
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iHunii View Post
    Isn't PvP - player vs. Player and PvE player vs. environment, do you have raids that involve killing players? No. But in PvP you decide to put mini bosses into CQ and disrupt the whole game. I know that Rift is a PvE game, I like raiding but there is nothing more annoying than having your raid go off to kill a pathetic boss and lose or miss out on favor/prestige.
    Have you ever heard of Contested mob pvp? One of the biggest, most meaningful points of Eq2 pvp were when open world contested Avatars dropped the indisputably best loot in the game. The thrill of doing it on a pvp server was, not only did you have to have a competent raid who can kill some of the hardest mobs in game, but you needed to fend off attackers trying to steal the kill from you while you fight. I think some guilds to kill the mobs had to form 2 raids and have 1 raid just to defend the raid going for the loot. It didn't get more heated than when killing the opponent meant the different between them obtaining the best loot in the entire game vs denying them of it of possibly taking it from them. Now that is meaningful pvp, and crazy enough, it involved some pretty intense pvp experiences with meaning behind the gameplay.

    In Rift you play to win, because you get more favor than the losing team, who still gets favor. My example, killing players meant you got the games best loot, and due to the mobs being contested that meant only one raid on the server could drop it per week. You tell me which pvp sounds more intense. One to me sounds like candy-land and the other sounds like some seriously high stakes pvp where losing really comes with an 'ouch'. In Rift you lose and just get reduced rewards. Of course, I don't enjoy their style of having contested mobs that are near meaningless upon kill. Ie. killing the boss in Port Scion, even though conceptually it is the same 'contested mob' situation - nobody in Eq2 fought over contested mobs that dropped garbage. But I don't know if this player base could handle/embrace something where winning rewards very handsomely and losing realllllly sucks. This "pve" style pvp you speak of could be brought to a whole new degree if it came with some gonads. Winning in this game really has no value besides saying you did. There isn't much grand incentive to win at all. Which is odd because I hear opposing view points from people on the boards. Some say they hate that winning is so moot that losing rewards decently in comparison. And some say winning shouldn't be about rewards at all, simply the play of the sport. Not sure where you middle ground that sort of crowd.
    Last edited by Violacea; 08-31-2012 at 04:34 PM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  10. #40
    Ascendant Tufelhunden's Avatar
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    I for one would LOVE a Deathmatch type warfront. BG, and Dex are both great locations for larger and smaller locations. Heck even Scion would be okay too.

    I'd still play the others as DM can get old if thats all you play but being able to choose would absolutely rock, IMO.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistacrowley420 View Post
    All day everyday.
    I can't remember the last time I picked up a library rune. And it's rare that I give in to the leaderboard temptation to pick up the BG fang. I just don't care very much about the PVE objectives. That's why I don't really care about adding an arena.

    What I would like to see, however, is a matchmaking option that gives us greater control over setting up 5 mans, 10 mans, etc. Whether that 5 man takes place in an arena, or BG, I really don't care. Trion has made it difficult to set up fights with other premades. Why can't we fight premades from the same faction? Why can't we easily see who is in the premade que?

    If they fix that I think the cries for arena will die down.
    EvanX / Nihilist / Insurgent

  12. #42
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Rift really needs a competition ladder setup by someone and the ability to regulate matches. That way all the anti-objective people can enjoy the view from the bottom of the ladder because they lose so much.

    Err, wait people don't want competition in this game. They just say they do.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  13. #43
    Ascendant Keota's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Feels good to have a dev mirror what I say tirelessly. At least I know the people who matter/dictate this game realize this.

    People will not be happy until they get a taste of Deathmatch. Unfortunately I doubt you want to put forth a raw, pure kill count, death match just to prove to people who easily that rule set gets boring. Not sure if you are a Quaker but, if you ever look into DM rule sets, something like Q2 Lithium spiced it up very well. It was just raw FFA or TDM that ended with a kill count/time limit, but it had this small lure.

    Runes (appear as pyramid shaped entities):
    Strength (Red) You inflict 2x damage
    Resist (Blue) You take 1/2 damage
    Haste (Yellow) You fire twice as fast
    Regen (Green) Your health regenerates slowly
    Vampire (Purple) You gain health for damage inflicted

    Sure I am preaching to the choir at this point. But it was that small addition of present rune buffs that somehow turned it into a whole different machine people fell in love with. Rift has its 3 power-up runes but, I think a DM based game that highly focuses on pure combat, with the added perk of interesting power-ups might create an interesting atmosphere. Sure if you guys go in the brainstorm room this is the sort of idea I would toss on the desk and see what others think. The runes I gave are example, and I am not saying they should be used in Rift. But it was those 5 perks that turned plain-jane DM into a highly addictive mod people fell in love with.
    OHhhh dakkota.. if i had a penny for every time i read a reference to quake in your post i would have something like...... 250+ penny's.

    all in all you sound relieved that trion is not implementing anything different then its major competitors. this is not a "normalization" discussion this is something that us a s veteran pvp players have been dreaming of since 2 weeks after release when pvp got bland.

    if they want to be the game that people play while they wait for something better so be it. i can promise you one thing though, adding a new warfront is not going to return any amount of pvp players to this game. adding a PVE objective to anything for that matter is not going to help either.
    Zoartype@Deepwood

  14. #44
    Ascendant Keota's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iHunii View Post
    Isn't PvP - player vs. Player and PvE player vs. environment, do you have raids that involve killing players? No. But in PvP you decide to put mini bosses into CQ and disrupt the whole game. I know that Rift is a PvE game, I like raiding but there is nothing more annoying than having your raid go off to kill a pathetic boss and lose or miss out on favor/prestige.
    sometimes i wonder if they actually play the game. and then i wonder.. do they say "OH MAN CQ IS FUN" or "OH BOY THIS MINI BOSS PROVIDES GREAT PVP FUN!"
    Zoartype@Deepwood

  15. #45
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keota View Post
    if they want to be the game that people play while they wait for something better so be it. i can promise you one thing though, adding a new warfront is not going to return any amount of pvp players to this game. adding a PVE objective to anything for that matter is not going to help either.
    In the quote you listed from me I didn't mention a single 'pve' styled objective.

    I'm relieved that they understand things that make sense. I still don't get why people keep talking to me like I am against death match. I am pretty sure I was one of the first to post in the suggestions area or something that port scion should be tested for Bonus weekend scenarios as a Deathmatch - remove all pve objectives, and replace them with power-ups to draw attention throughout the map.

    Team death match. Death match that goes by rounds with last man standing. Death match that has runes. Just pure Deathmatch is pretty boring. If they are going to implement death match, they can give it some razzle dazzle so that it does stand out from other games.

    Plus, the reason I mention quake is, not only is it one of the longest running successful 'pvp' styled series in the online gaming industry, which is still going strong with yearly Quakecons. But it also seems like a lot of the stuff people are describing, Quake servers are their utopia. Like not kidding, if people could get over not having a hotbar and using a cross hair instead - the rule set, the tone, the atmosphere, is pretty much exactly what everyone here in the hardcore pvp community describes.
    Last edited by Violacea; 08-31-2012 at 05:48 PM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

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