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Thread: Put another one down for arenas.

  1. #31
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblivion333 View Post
    Okay if Arena is demanded then why not make Arena be "normalized gear" incentive. Put in the Arena and make it normalized PvP.
    I think leaderboards would be a better incentive. Gear incentives will just get us a bunch of people afking in 5v5s and that sort of defeats the purpose.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 08-24-2012 at 01:03 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  2. #32
    Plane Walker Grimt's Avatar
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    Default Pseudo Arena without much extra work for Trion

    a. use the Black Garden map
    b. group only queue, either 5 man or 10 man
    c. add it to the PvP leaderboard as a separate WF, but change the scoring to add one point for a win, subtract one point for a loss or a withdrawal (except you can't go negative)
    d. status and bragging rights only ... no separate gear impact

    It seems to me that this would be easier to implement than BG:Stockpile was. They could call the new modified WF "Master Black Garden" or something like that.

  3. #33
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimt View Post
    a. use the Black Garden map
    b. group only queue, either 5 man or 10 man
    c. add it to the PvP leaderboard as a separate WF, but change the scoring to add one point for a win, subtract one point for a loss or a withdrawal (except you can't go negative)
    d. status and bragging rights only ... no separate gear impact

    It seems to me that this would be easier to implement than BG:Stockpile was. They could call the new modified WF "Master Black Garden" or something like that.
    I would play this all day, if I wasn't trying to grind PvP gear for PvE. :/

  4. #34
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyzyx View Post
    Open world is out of the question because groups cannot duel eachother in pve shards and pvp shards are limited to faction v faction.
    Why not?

    That's a **** rationale.

    Are you trying to tell me there aren't enough PvP groups on Seastone, the premiere PvP destination, to provide a variety of opposition for groups on the other faction?

    It's a horse**** excuse, and I don't buy it, especially if you're trying to sell arenas out of the back of the same rationale van.
    Last edited by Kyera; 08-24-2012 at 01:39 PM.
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  5. #35
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    Why not?

    That's a **** rationale.

    Are you trying to tell me there aren't enough PvP groups on Seastone, the premiere PvP destination, to provide a variety of opposition for groups on the other faction?

    It's a horse**** excuse, and I don't buy it, especially if you're trying to sell arenas out of the back of the same rationale van.
    And if you want to test your team against a specific other team but they happen to be the same faction?

    Or you want to form a team with a friend without him releveling a character to 50 just because he happens to be Defiant?

    The point of arenas is not random matchups.

  6. #36
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    Why not?

    That's a **** rationale.

    Are you trying to tell me there aren't enough PvP groups on Seastone, the premiere PvP destination, to provide a variety of opposition for groups on the other faction?

    It's a horse**** excuse, and I don't buy it, especially if you're trying to sell arenas out of the back of the same rationale van.
    What if we don't want to level up characters on some weird server?
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 08-24-2012 at 05:14 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  7. #37
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    Back then i was so excited when trion anounced alternate black guarden, and was sure it would be 5vs5 finally, and then they did a stupid 15vs15 which is even WORSE then the original...

    said so often, i just dont understand why they dont do a 5vs5 black guarden, could be so simple ... prbly 1hr coding ...

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimt View Post
    a. use the Black Garden map
    b. group only queue, either 5 man or 10 man
    c. add it to the PvP leaderboard as a separate WF, but change the scoring to add one point for a win, subtract one point for a loss or a withdrawal (except you can't go negative)
    d. status and bragging rights only ... no separate gear impact

    It seems to me that this would be easier to implement than BG:Stockpile was. They could call the new modified WF "Master Black Garden" or something like that.
    Not a bad idea I like your thinking. But some rewards would be nice like epic weapons with 20 more spell power or something ... I.e. almost no difference but cool to have

  9. #39
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    And if you want to test your team against a specific other team but they happen to be the same faction?
    Welcome to a faction-based game.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Or you want to form a team with a friend without him releveling a character to 50 just because he happens to be Defiant?
    Welcome to a faction-based game.

    On the one hand, the concept of having to put effort into organizing something structured, with a rating system and planned matches, conducting them in a duel-like fashion, is seemingly too daunting, hard, or sarcastically referred to as "always a fun time". Despite the potential for simulating what people want Trion to implement with the lone exception of faction-based restrictions, it's totally not worth the effort of, at the most basic level, starting a thread.

    On the other hand, going with something less structured with simple, simple rules, but likely to generate more fights in a spontaneous, organic manner -- as well as having the potential for the drama we all LOVE on these forums -- has the problem of being "too random" and not being "the point" of arenas. It also will never work in a game like this for whatever unspecified reason (ignoring the fact that, you know, 8v8 has been a DAoC thing for a decade without any developer involvement whatsoever), but arenas TOTALLY will.

    Look, I get that you might want to have e-peen waggling competitions about who's got the bigger dong on your faction, and since you can't go head to head that'd be difficult. However, for a community that is so adamant that they want smaller-scale, guild vs. guild or group vs. group gameplay, you wouldn't think the concept of trying to organize something in the open world would be like ****ing kryptonite, especially if you want to prove there's a ****ing market for Trion to invest dollarbucks into pursuing a non-balance-influencing, non-reward-generating, e-peen only arena-style gametype.

    I tried organizing something like this a couple of months after the Dayblind tournament on Deepstrike, but servers were in a state of flux (and Deepstrike was in its death throes) and my guild ended up dropping the game because of a lack of people to PvP against. I think it could be worth a try with the PvP population nearly entirely concentrated on one server (and the ability to transfer there being a thing for those that aren't).

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    The point of arenas is not random matchups.
    Honestly, after all these threads painting different pictures and being entirely dismissive of any other effort to get PvP going as a community-driven initiative, I'm honestly not sure what the point of arenas is to this community beyond being something to cry about not having.
    Last edited by Kyera; 08-24-2012 at 03:02 PM.
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  10. #40
    Ascendant Valnak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    Honestly, after all these threads painting different pictures and being entirely dismissive of any other effort to get PvP going as a community-driven initiative, I'm honestly not sure what the point of arenas is to this community beyond being something to cry about not having.
    Then when we get them we'll complain about not having enough of them, or class imbalance, or certain specs are useless in certain arenas and so forth.

  11. #41
    Ascendant Keota's Avatar
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    zyxzx... didn't we talk about this yesterday? there are certain things we DON'T say in the forums...


    as for the thread.
    1. if you dont want arena's that DON'T offer superior rewards your probably bad at pvp or a troll.
    2. open world anywhere does not make for a fair match. its very easy for me to guard a healer while i "watc

    think about it guys!!! im not be the best but im sure i have in my time played against the best. out of however many players that pvp i can count on 2 hands how many would actually make a tough 5v5 team. Trion knows this! im all for arenas or 5v5's open world premade vs premade is the same as premade vs premade in a wf. somthing more would be great but its far from happening im sure.
    Zoartype@Deepwood

  12. #42
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keota View Post
    zyxzx... didn't we talk about this yesterday? there are certain things we DON'T say in the forums...


    as for the thread.
    1. if you dont want arena's that DON'T offer superior rewards your probably bad at pvp or a troll.
    2. open world anywhere does not make for a fair match. its very easy for me to guard a healer while i "watc

    think about it guys!!! im not be the best but im sure i have in my time played against the best. out of however many players that pvp i can count on 2 hands how many would actually make a tough 5v5 team. Trion knows this! im all for arenas or 5v5's open world premade vs premade is the same as premade vs premade in a wf. somthing more would be great but its far from happening im sure.
    haha okay I changed it

    1. double negatives are confusing

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  13. #43
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    Welcome to a faction-based game.



    Welcome to a faction-based game.

    On the one hand, the concept of having to put effort into organizing something structured, with a rating system and planned matches, conducting them in a duel-like fashion, is seemingly too daunting, hard, or sarcastically referred to as "always a fun time". Despite the potential for simulating what people want Trion to implement with the lone exception of faction-based restrictions, it's totally not worth the effort of, at the most basic level, starting a thread.

    On the other hand, going with something less structured with simple, simple rules, but likely to generate more fights in a spontaneous, organic manner -- as well as having the potential for the drama we all LOVE on these forums -- has the problem of being "too random" and not being "the point" of arenas. It also will never work in a game like this for whatever unspecified reason (ignoring the fact that, you know, 8v8 has been a DAoC thing for a decade without any developer involvement whatsoever), but arenas TOTALLY will.

    Look, I get that you might want to have e-peen waggling competitions about who's got the bigger dong on your faction, and since you can't go head to head that'd be difficult. However, for a community that is so adamant that they want smaller-scale, guild vs. guild or group vs. group gameplay, you wouldn't think the concept of trying to organize something in the open world would be like ****ing kryptonite, especially if you want to prove there's a ****ing market for Trion to invest dollarbucks into pursuing a non-balance-influencing, non-reward-generating, e-peen only arena-style gametype.

    I tried organizing something like this a couple of months after the Dayblind tournament on Deepstrike, but servers were in a state of flux (and Deepstrike was in its death throes) and my guild ended up dropping the game because of a lack of people to PvP against. I think it could be worth a try with the PvP population nearly entirely concentrated on one server (and the ability to transfer there being a thing for those that aren't).



    Honestly, after all these threads painting different pictures and being entirely dismissive of any other effort to get PvP going as a community-driven initiative, I'm honestly not sure what the point of arenas is to this community beyond being something to cry about not having.
    This is one thing that gets me about these arena debates.

    People come on the forums and decry the lack of arenas, even going so far as to say "we want them! We need them!! WE GOTTA GOTTA HAVE THEM" (paraphrased, of course). But as soon as anyone suggests that there shouldn't be special rewards or, heaven forbid, anyone suggest that they go out of there way to arrange them themselves it all becomes "NO WAY!!!".

    If people crave competitive PvP as much as they claim, they shouldn't need the extra carrot. They should also be willing to put in a little extra effort to provide what they want for themselves.

    Now I'm not claiming that everyone feels he same way. I'm sure there are people out there willing to bypass extra rewards and some have gone through the hassle of organizing unofficial arenas (Amon and Parfaite come to mind). But it seems that the majority are crying for something they want, but won't be willing to do it unless they get paid. Nor are they willing to go get it themselves.

  14. #44
    Plane Walker Grimt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meina View Post
    This is one thing that gets me about these arena debates.

    People come on the forums and decry the lack of arenas, even going so far as to say "we want them! We need them!! WE GOTTA GOTTA HAVE THEM" (paraphrased, of course). But as soon as anyone suggests that there shouldn't be special rewards or, heaven forbid, anyone suggest that they go out of there way to arrange them themselves it all becomes "NO WAY!!!".

    If people crave competitive PvP as much as they claim, they shouldn't need the extra carrot. They should also be willing to put in a little extra effort to provide what they want for themselves.

    Now I'm not claiming that everyone feels the same way. I'm sure there are people out there willing to bypass extra rewards and some have gone through the hassle of organizing unofficial arenas (Amon and Parfaite come to mind). But it seems that the majority are crying for something they want, but won't be willing to do it unless they get paid. Nor are they willing to go get it themselves.
    I totally agree. It's laughable for people say they want arenas, but then say that in order for them to actually play them they need some sort of extra incentive. They can get their gear carrot anywhere ... they don't need arenas. The only reason I can think of to play arenas is for the better competition and the bragging rights that come with doing well in them.

    It's scary to consider that most of these people can vote ...

  15. #45
    Prophet of Telara Dee Dee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meina View Post
    But it seems that the majority are crying for something they want, but won't be willing to do it unless they get paid. Nor are they willing to go get it themselves.
    Isn't the pvp community that you are breeding used to get payed in the first place?

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