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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Gear Normalisation

  1. #511
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingEdRock View Post
    Sounds like the real problem is the PVE content needs to be changed to be more challenging. Maybe the NPCs should alter their strategy. Why simply have the gear crutch to determine sucess in PVE???

    Trion is focussing on the wrong areas. Nerf all PVE gear to nothing and then focus on making PVE actually challening not a superficial gear grind.
    Yeah maybe Trion should spend every day making every encounter in the game do something different, instead of updating the game!

    There's only so much variation you can put into scripted events before it becomes more work than creating the content itself.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 08-15-2012 at 02:24 PM.

  2. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Yeah maybe Trion should spend every day making every encounter in the game do something different, instead of updating the game!
    If they really want to differentiate Rift from GW2 that would be one way. Get rid of all PVE gear progression and make the NPC AI vastly superior to GW2 NPC AI. Remove the gear checks and let those truly skilled PVEers tackle the hardest content immediately if they are good enough to do it. Make the NPC encounters actually challenging.

    That would make one say "Hey Rift is doing something more innovative than GW2" rather than Rift simply mimicking GW2 and removing one by one the reasons not to leave Rift for GW2. Literally the only reason to stay in Rift now is if you like superficial gear check raids. PVP is now simply a cheap imitiation.
    Last edited by KingEdRock; 08-15-2012 at 02:29 PM.

  3. #513
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingEdRock View Post
    If they really want to differentiate Rift from GW2 that would be one way. Get rid of all PVE gear progression and make the NPC AI vastly superior to GW2 NPC AI. Remove the gear checks and let those truly skilled PVEers tackle the hardest content immediately if they are good enough to do it. Make the NPC encounters actually challenging.

    That would make one say "Hey Rift is doing something more innovative than GW2" rather than Rift simply mimicking GW2 and removing one by one the reasons not to leave Rift for GW2. Literally the only reason to stay in Rift now is if you like superficial gear check raids. PVP is now simply a cheap imitiation.
    I would be fine with that, but that would kind of negate their attempts to attract WoW style raiders completely. Plus "get rid of all PvE gear progression" would be even more difficult for many to swallow than the current topic.

    And PvP is never an "imitation" unless you actually have exactly the same abilities, character builds, combat mechanics, etc as the other game. I'd be very surprised to learn GW2 is an exact copy of Rift in those regards.

  4. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Honestly as a "challenge mode" I would have fun doing that too.

    But most people would get bored after doing it twice because unlike in PvP encounters don't change, so the excitement for progression-driven people is solely in getting gear to "ungate" more content.

    Then when they go back and do the lower tier content, it doesn't post on the forums that it's quitting the game because it's an AI.

    Hopefully I don't need to reiterate the reasons you can't make blanket judgments across PvP and PvE too many more times.
    Well then I wouldn't quit if with normalization we got progression gear and a "challenge mode" where gear worked and PvP is every bit as fast and bursty as it is today. I want to have to think out and time every movement, ability, and cooldown to survive in a fight. The normalization was just plain silly.

    I'll definitely get my girlfriend to try it when it goes live. She plays a 50 Mage (first video game and MMO in her life) and she HATES PvP. She's great in PVE but no matter how much I try to teach her she is terrible at PvP. She clicks and keyboard turns, has no idea what positioning is or where to be (she likes to park in the middle of the red names), doesn't know what most of her abilities do or why/when to use them. Usually she just runs out and dies (like I watch most of the other lemmings do in Warfronts, even at rank 50). I'm sure she'll have a blast with normalization.

    I honestly don't see the difference between PvP and PvE. There are hardcore players of both aspects who each love their gear progression. I think you're a complete hypocrite that you'd be in favor of completely cutting out an aspect of the game but only for one aspect (especially when I'd say the majority of people play the game for PVE and will never see end raids without normalization).

    Also, no replayability? Your excitement comes from getting gear? I thought we only did things for fun.

    I wouldn't say raiding is just gearing up to clear content but more of learning the fight and adapting as a group to each part. That will still be a part of the game, and with normalized stats there might be more of a chance for folks to do that. You can still do some kind of meaningful progression through flagging. No more undergeared groups and no more tank and spanks. Sounds like more fun to me.
    Last edited by Asterisk42; 08-15-2012 at 02:38 PM. Reason: typos and grammER

  5. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    I would be fine with that, but that would kind of negate their attempts to attract WoW style raiders completely. Plus "get rid of all PvE gear progression" would be even more difficult for many to swallow than the current topic.

    And PvP is never an "imitation" unless you actually have exactly the same abilities, character builds, combat mechanics, etc as the other game. I'd be very surprised to learn GW2 is an exact copy of Rift in those regards.
    Not an imitation you say? So the hastily contsructed "3 faction warfare" and this knee-jerk "level playing field warfonts" aren't feeble attempts at mimicking GW2 PVP? Wow, strange what a coincidence. Trion decided to do all this right before GW2 launch.

    You are right, that lore for the 3 faction conquest just fits the lore so nicely in Rift right LOL? And that "even playing field warfronts" was so perfectly balanced and well thought out they must have been planning that way before they heard of GW2 LMFAO.

    It would be more funny if it wasn't so disappointing.

  6. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asterisk42 View Post

    I wouldn't say raiding is just gearing up to clear content but more of learning the fight and adapting as a group to each part. That will still be a part of the game, and with normalized stats there might be more of a chance for folks to do that. You can still do some kind of meaningful progression through flagging. No more undergeared groups and no more tank and spanks. Sounds like more fun to me.
    Yup, PVE is way more broken from gear than PVP is. Either your gear is so bad you simply have no chance, or you can gear up so much that you can ignore all CC and just tank/spank getting around the intended way of solving the problem. With PVP all they need to do is fix the matchmaking. Seems like with PVE getting rid of the gear check / crutch is actually a much bigger problem.

    Destroy all PVE gear please Trion!

  7. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Yeah maybe Trion should spend every day making every encounter in the game do something different, instead of updating the game!

    There's only so much variation you can put into scripted events before it becomes more work than creating the content itself.
    This makes no sense. More work than creating the content? Their work is creating content. What do you think comes in those updates?

    It wouldn't be hard to give a boss a list of abilities and a script to use them dynamically but in a way it wouldn't be overpowering (it's kinda what's already in place on this engine).

  8. #518
    Ascendant Pines's Avatar
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    More strawmen in this thread than a scarecrow convention.
    what is this I don't even

  9. #519
    Ascendant Charlice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pines View Post
    More strawmen in this thread than a scarecrow convention.
    Kill them with fire!!!!


    Den of Madness | Greybriar | Den of Badness | Derpwood

  10. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pines View Post
    More strawmen in this thread than a scarecrow convention.
    http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...RedHerring.png

  11. #521
    Soulwalker
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    Wasn't leaving rift for gw2 until I heard about this, horrible horrible idea.
    thanks trion

  12. #522
    Rift Chaser MitsuMarty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patchkid View Post
    I find it absurd that we are compairing pve and pvp. NPCs don't adjust to your strategy. You figure out their mechanics, execute, meet the gear check, and win.

    Players adapt to your tactics, NPCs don't. If there was no pve progression via gear in Rift, as the pve is designed around with no dynamic content, then you would run out of content.

    PvP doesn't need progression because the opponents change / adapt, and can always provide a fresh / new experience. player-driven content should not be compared evenly with static unchanging content.
    And it's absurd for you to think PvP is way different. Opponents change / adapt. Yet the actual truth about the matter, pvp DOES need progression. There are only 4 classes, sure players can "change" but in pvp with normalization...how? The only reason people can change now is because of the gear progression. Other than that, mages will always cast fireballs, warriors will always brostorm, mm rogues will always hit from 35m away with the same 4-5 (if that) pvp viable attacks. The only way to allow that change and adaptation is the customization aspect that armor/weapon/pa/soul combos give. Take 75% of that away and there will be no changing, itll get boring, because every mage you encounter you know you'll have to do this or that, every warrior you encounter you'll have to do that or this. There won't be surprise element going against someone, thinking "hmm is he geared towards dodge, dex, sp, crit, mitigation, etc." Just "oh that's a mage...ok I'll do this". And not to mention, taking away the progressive part of the PvP game essentially makes it soul combo vs soul combo and since alot of our souls are common with other classes, with the only difference being execution and visualistic properties. Then in my eyes, yes, it will get boring quick and I'll take my $90/month and go elsewhere or just play GW2 which has the same freaking pvp setup but it's.....free!
    Last edited by MitsuMarty; 08-15-2012 at 03:45 PM.

  13. #523
    Champion of Telara
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    Should be spending more time fixing and balancing souls instead of this crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sebb View Post
    In before... "This thread (aka forum) is being locked because it's filled with hypocrisy, idiocy, made up numbers and lack of any sort of constructive posts"

  14. #524
    Rift Team
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    Hi everyone,

    We currently have a dev post in response to the discussions about this topic. If you'd like to share your thoughts, you'll find the main discussion thread, as well as the dev's response here:

    http://forums.riftgame.com/public-te...n-changes.html

    We're going to close this thread and ask that this discussion continue in the threads linked above so we can keep the discussions about this topic a little better consolidated. This will also allow any dev responses to be posted in one location for all to see.

    As a friendly reminder, we do recommend using the forum search function (searching in thread titles works best) and checking through the last couple pages to see if there is already an existing thread about a topic you'd like to discuss. When topic discussions are consolidated, it not only makes it easier to use the search function, but it also aids the Rift Community and Development Teams when reading the forums and gathering feedback from your posts, ideas, and concerns.

    If anyone has questions or concerns about this thread closure, please feel free to contact us at community@riftgame.com.

    Thank you!

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