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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Gear Normalisation

  1. #196
    Rift Disciple Sabryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Dee View Post
    no, hannon, i never liked boosts of any kind
    thhat's what happens now when doing dailies for unseen
    I think we're getting a little too off topic.

    What we're concerned about is that if gear rewards are completely removed from the PvP side, everyone that plays mainly for PvP is screwed outside of a warfront. We'll need something to stay effective in the rest of the game, which most of us enjoy at least one other aspect aside from PvP.

  2. #197
    Prophet of Telara Dee Dee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    [citation needed]
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  3.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #198
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    Cross posting this from the thread in the PTS forum that I am responding to every once in a while. I'm checking that thread throughout the day.

    ~Daglar

    --------

    Folks.

    Step 1: See if the technology works on PTS. (And damage reduction values)

    Step 2: Deploy on Live for One Week and gather metrics.

    Step 3: Review Data Gathered and Discuss internally.

    Step 4: Make plan for fututre PvP changes (or no changes at all)

    During none of those steps is the gear you have earned deleted, removed, or destroyed.

    We have no plans on removing all progression or rewards from PvP in Rift. There will always be a reward. How it affects your character is a different discussion - a discussion we /may not get to/ based on data gathering. I am not going to post all of our potential plans that may not ultimately be the right thing for Rift PvP.

    I fully expect there to be issues with class balance during the playtest period. I fully expect complaints regarding synergy crystals, PVE gear and PAs. I also expect to see a lot of people claiming that it must have been a premade that beat them, or that the other side has all the healers.

    Those are issues that exist in Rift PvP today. This test won't remove those complaints, it may intensify them. That is not unexpected.

  4. #199
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    @ kyera: The point is. MMO and FPS are two almost different sets of skill. The only one I would say translates through both genres is the concept of situation awareness.

    I also feel playing the piano at a professional level is a unique set of skills harder than any video game will ever be. Hardly anything is a raw duplication of one set of skills.

    I never played MMOs for the reasons of skill though. I kinda put my desire to flex skill behind when I approached MMOs. I wanted to have fun, not turn it into what Q3a was to me, a highly competitive game.
    Last edited by Violacea; 08-14-2012 at 10:01 AM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    Cross posting this from the thread in the PTS forum that I am responding to every once in a while. I'm checking that thread throughout the day.

    ~Daglar

    --------

    Folks.

    Step 1: See if the technology works on PTS. (And damage reduction values)

    Step 2: Deploy on Live for One Week and gather metrics.

    Step 3: Review Data Gathered and Discuss internally.

    Step 4: Make plan for fututre PvP changes (or no changes at all)

    During none of those steps is the gear you have earned deleted, removed, or destroyed.

    We have no plans on removing all progression or rewards from PvP in Rift. There will always be a reward. How it affects your character is a different discussion - a discussion we /may not get to/ based on data gathering. I am not going to post all of our potential plans that may not ultimately be the right thing for Rift PvP.

    I fully expect there to be issues with class balance during the playtest period. I fully expect complaints regarding synergy crystals, PVE gear and PAs. I also expect to see a lot of people claiming that it must have been a premade that beat them, or that the other side has all the healers.

    Those are issues that exist in Rift PvP today. This test won't remove those complaints, it may intensify them. That is not unexpected.
    Synergy Crystals will still be operational? Notably PvE ones? With gear normalised could I use PvE synergy crystals without taking a Valor hit?
    Raenryong@Deepwood R69 ~ Amathys@Zaviel (Rogue)
    Serefina@Deepwood R66 ~ Solserefina@Zaviel (Warrior)
    Seraena@Deepwood R80 ~ Seraena@Zaviel R70 (Cleric)
    Avalonia@Deepwood R66 ~ Avalonia@Zaviel (Mage)
    <Dauntless> ~ <Excellence>

  6. #201
    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raen Ryong View Post
    Synergy Crystals will still be operational? Notably PvE ones? With gear normalised could I use PvE synergy crystals without taking a Valor hit?
    God i hope not otherwise I'm busting out my 4 piece warrior syn crystals

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    @ kyera: The point is. MMO and FPS are two almost different sets of skill. The only one I would say translates through both genres is the concept of situation awareness.

    I also feel playing the piano at a professional level is a unique set of skills harder than any video game will ever be. Hardly anything is a raw duplication of one set of skills.

    I never played MMOs for the reasons of skill though. I kinda put my desire to flex skill behind when I approached MMOs. I wanted to have fun, not turn it into what Q3a was to me, a highly competitive game.
    I can appreciate this point of view, even though I know you disdain GW as "skill based". which to my point of view, the team based PvP is skilled, different yes, but skilled none the less. And highly competitive on a global scale.

    And honestly I think the prevailing community places Trion in a no win situtation....if they go in one direction its QQ...the other direction its QQ.....
    Last edited by TedO; 08-14-2012 at 10:09 AM.
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  8. #203
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    So tell me again why I did 100K kills and 5 million+ in favor on my mage alone, along with endless faction hunting in all the warefronts and zones? This is another poor excuse for carebearing imho.
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  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Dee View Post
    if you want an accurate answer, i'm afraid it is too early, since pts didnt start yet, and probably isnt anything as precise as you search
    at least i gave you an answer, seek friends that like your kind of activities
    You gave an answer relating "advice", seemingly to a level 50 character getting killed doing dailies, in response to a hypothetical question about a sub-50 character on a PvP server.

    "How much does this sandwich cost?"
    "Mittens are warm."
    "What?"
    "I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION, DIDN'T I?"


    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Ironically enough, one of the players I consider the toughest on the battlefield, wildbill, was a heavy Q3A player.
    Oh boy, Q3A. What a great example of a skill-driven shooter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    I don't have to pretend about MMOs. I played at the top level. Been there, done that. It is a joke. It's a lot of fun. But you are kidding yourself if you think it is difficult. The most difficult part about playing top end MMO's was actually fielding 24 people who aren't clueless in a raid. THAT is hard.
    "MMO PvP doesn't showcase the real skill of good players. How do I know? I killed a bunch of dragons."
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  10. #205
    Prophet of Telara Dee Dee's Avatar
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    don't take it personal, i respect everyone games time, english is also not my speaking language
    also the new expac is a big change for all of us, some will be excited, some will be left aside
    i don't think i wanna be in trion's shoes atm :P

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedO View Post
    I can appreciate this point of view, even though I know you disdain GW as "skill based". which to my point of view, the team based PvP is skilled, different yes, but skilled none the less. And highly competitive on a global scale.

    And honestly I think the prevailing community places Trion in a no win situtation....if they go in one direction its QQ...the other direction its QQ.....
    Ah, it is skilled and highly competitive. Competition certainly doesn't require skill to be involved. Skill involved just makes competition more intense when it takes place I think. I guess in the end I am just basing it off what has tested my personal capability. And I never felt so tested and worked in my other games. It's simply my perspective that it took more personal dedication and effort to become good at X game than Y game. I'll still admit both games take a level of personal dedication and effort though to do such in.
    New round up of some high rank matches
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    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  12. #207
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    So, if there's going to be gear normalization in Warfronts (in theory, I understand its a test), but there is still going to be gear progression, the logical outcome is:

    1) Remove valor and vengeance from everything except PAs
    2) Completely wipe out the distinction between PvE and PvP gear
    3) Apply a base decrease damage to players in open world pvp equivalent to some arbitrary damage reduction number which you used to get from the valor on your gear that doesn't exist anymore

    Basically, you'd PvP for gear for character progression the same way a raiders raids, you farm materials for crafted goods, you farm ISS for planar goods or dungeons through the Daily for Marks. Hell, they could even have the Daily/Weekly PvP quests drop Marks, and everyone chooses whatever they enjoy most for a progression path.

    The Raiders are going to scream murder, but for more casual players and pvp'ers the model would be great.

  13. #208
    Prophet of Telara Dee Dee's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Kyera;3921412]You gave an answer relating "advice", seemingly to a level 50 character getting killed doing dailies, in response to a hypothetical question about a sub-50 character on a PvP server.

    "How much does this sandwich cost?"
    "Mittens are warm."
    "What?"
    "I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION, DIDN'T I?"

    was it a rethorical question?
    did u expect an accurate answer?

  14. #209
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    Missed the edit timer on this, but I get that they're different skill sets.

    Perhaps the skillset of a strong FPS player is no demonstrated to the fullest extent in an MMO context, but I know plenty of people that are strong shooter players and suck at MMO PvP and vice versa, and I don't just mean at a "low level" or purely anecdotal "friend of a friend" tier.

    A lot of strong "gaming" skills apply to multiple genres in varying capacities, for sure. A lot don't.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Dee View Post
    was it a rethorical question?
    did u expect an accurate answer?
    It was hypothetical, not rhetorical. I don't expect an accurate answer, since it's not an existing problem, but since it was a challenge to someone else's "simple solution", I would expect any response to be relevant to the concept instead of an arbitrary, ill-informed one going off on an unrelated tangent.
    Last edited by Kyera; 08-14-2012 at 10:21 AM.
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  15. #210
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post




    Oh boy, Q3A. What a great example of a skill-driven shooter.



    "MMO PvP doesn't showcase the real skill of good players. How do I know? I killed a bunch of dragons."
    How am I suppose to respond to two utterly incorrect things that make no sense?

    Q3A is one of the best online examples of skill based shooters that existed. You have never played it though, so please stop talking about stuff you have not played. At least I have played the games I am referencing. If you have played it, God help you if you walked away with that notion. If you were a good player, I'll know your alias or at least the clan you played with.

    MMO PvP doesn't showcase the real skill of good players because it limits them. You can be good in MMO's. But it's like a rocket scientist teaching 8th grade science. He can't fully demonstrate the peak of his skills in that sort of environment. There are games out there with environments that promote much high displays of skill imo. Just like there are activities out there that demonstrate a higher level of skill than I think any video game requires.
    Last edited by Violacea; 08-14-2012 at 10:23 AM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

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