Conquest. What do the users think its about.

[kindakind]

I have a question. What do the users think Conquest the game should be about.

Pvp? zerging? huge epic battles? three team pvp? crafting? Pve? Camping towers?

favor farming to get good gear? strategy? any other ideas welcome.



Personally I think its about.
I think it should be about 3 team pvp and kill count and strategy. The whole tower pve thing is amazingly boring. And when I say 3 team pvp that means each team has a equal shot at winning the game. Right now nightfall is loser town.

Anyone else have an opinion?

[Sariina]

Anyone else have an opinion?

IMO we need more threads that discuss conquest.

[kindakind]

IMO we need more threads that discuss conquest.

I want a thread that talks about what people want not just threads about how conquest sucks now. which is does.

[Lighteyes]

honestly CQ is not *that* far off from being epic, there is just one major thing that stands in the way as it is now (post 8.5 hotfix)

The shards for taking over an extractor NEED to go.


Game design 101 states that players are stupid, and will always do whatever is perceived to give the easiest rewards. Not fastest, not the most fun, not even factually the easiest, but the perceived easiest.

Since most players currently doing CQ are only after marks, and flipping extractors is damn easy, that's what they do.

To get players to play the way you want them to, you need to make that way of play blatantly more easy, more rewarding than every other option. Since removing rewards is never popular, reducing the zone wide extractor bonus from 10min to something shorter like 2 min (with obvious cuts in reward numbers) would incentivise defence.


So, what would this change do:

1) players would be less interested in capping simply for capping's sake since taking the extractor in and of itself gives nothing. Players wouldn't all huddle around the extractor like it was the last flicker of heat in IPP and would continue to press the offence like pre 8.5.

2) quicker reward timers would incentivse players to defend as there would be less time to retake ground between rewards. Having an extractor would be seen as nearly constant rewards rather than rare bursts.

3) Putting the focus back on area denial rather than extractor changing would further pressure actually PVPing rather than flipping.



As I said, it's so damn close to being awesome.

[dpser]

I think Conquest, or a variation of it, has potential to be a real blast. There are several problems with its current iteration, obviously, but the main strategic problem I see is that it is all just a chaotic mess.

Taking new territory, and defending your own territory, should be big deal. It is in real life conflicts. In Conquest, extractors pass back and forth between factions like 3-way ping pong.

Setting up defenses still isn't really an option. Charging turrets and leaving 4 or 5 people to defend an extractor only means the oncoming zerg will need an additional few seconds to overtake it, with still no harm done to the zerg.

Given the layout, setting up front lines or other defensive measure isn't really an option.

It's like playing Risk, except we are only playing on the Asian continent, running around in circles over the top of each other. If Trion can make it more like the full Risk board, where teams can take up defensible positions and yet there are still ongoing massive battles, then I think we'll have something really fun to play.

[dpser]

honestly CQ is not *that* far off from being epic, there is just one major thing that stands in the way as it is now (post 8.5 hotfix)

The shards for taking over an extractor NEED to go.


Game design 101 states that players are stupid, and will always do whatever is perceived to give the easiest rewards. Not fastest, not the most fun, not even factually the easiest, but the perceived easiest.

Since most players currently doing CQ are only after marks, and flipping extractors is damn easy, that's what they do.

To get players to play the way you want them to, you need to make that way of play blatantly more easy, more rewarding than every other option. Since removing rewards is never popular, reducing the zone wide extractor bonus from 10min to something shorter like 2 min (with obvious cuts in reward numbers) would incentivise defence.


So, what would this change do:

1) players would be less interested in capping simply for capping's sake since taking the extractor in and of itself gives nothing. Players wouldn't all huddle around the extractor like it was the last flicker of heat in IPP and would continue to press the offence like pre 8.5.

2) quicker reward timers would incentivse players to defend as there would be less time to retake ground between rewards. Having an extractor would be seen as nearly constant rewards rather than rare bursts.

3) Putting the focus back on area denial rather than extractor changing would further pressure actually PVPing rather than flipping.



As I said, it's so damn close to being awesome.

Listen to Lighteyes, Trion. Good thoughts here.

[Sariina]

I want a thread that talks about what people want not just threads about how conquest sucks now. which is does.

I want it turned off, and any request to customer service or Trion as to where it went to be replied to with "What are you talking about? Are you on crack?".

[kindakind]

honestly CQ is not *that* far off from being epic, there is just one major thing that stands in the way as it is now (post 8.5 hotfix)

The shards for taking over an extractor NEED to go. I totally agree with you!


Game design 101 states that players are stupid, and will always do whatever is perceived to give the easiest rewards. Not fastest, not the most fun, not even factually the easiest, but the perceived easiest.


I am a designer my self and one mistake is viewing your users as stupid. But thats just my opinion. respect is is the way to go. But your talking about game design also I have no clue. But when I user get his or her hands on a product they will always use it the way that seems most natural. so now in CQ the natural way is no perks for open battle and perks for running around capping towers this is what everyone does. I think i get what your saying don't reward people for doing something that the game is not about.


So, what would this change do:

1) players would be less interested in capping simply for capping's sake since taking the extractor in and of itself gives nothing. Players wouldn't all huddle around the extractor like it was the last flicker of heat in IPP and would continue to press the offence like pre 8.5.

2) quicker reward timers would incentivse players to defend as there would be less time to retake ground between rewards. Having an extractor would be seen as nearly constant rewards rather than rare bursts.

3) Putting the focus back on area denial rather than extractor changing would further pressure actually PVPing rather than flipping.



As I said, it's so damn close to being awesome.

I think I am starting to see your point. you want the game to be about taking ground. maybe they should block up the map to have perks when you take over areas. make the towers with the cannons areas where you get dps and health bonuses for owning that ground. Personally i want to get geared so I can play a game really competitively like the way you view conquest someday will be.

[kindakind]

I want it turned off, and any request to customer service or Trion as to where it went to be replied to with "What are you talking about? Are you on crack?".

lol Conquest has the potential to make rift the best pvp mmo out there. I mean if it gets good Ill play it to win when im fully geared, I would not care about favor or marks or anything. just for the fact that its a fun great game. but people opinion is what i wanted thanks for replying to my post XD

[kindakind]

I think Conquest, or a variation of it, has potential to be a real blast. There are several problems with its current iteration, obviously, but the main strategic problem I see is that it is all just a chaotic mess.

Taking new territory, and defending your own territory, should be big deal. It is in real life conflicts. In Conquest, extractors pass back and forth between factions like 3-way ping pong.

Setting up defenses still isn't really an option. Charging turrets and leaving 4 or 5 people to defend an extractor only means the oncoming zerg will need an additional few seconds to overtake it, with still no harm done to the zerg.

Given the layout, setting up front lines or other defensive measure isn't really an option.

It's like playing Risk, except we are only playing on the Asian continent, running around in circles over the top of each other. If Trion can make it more like the full Risk board, where teams can take up defensible positions and yet there are still ongoing massive battles, then I think we'll have something really fun to play.

I like what your saying. Great ideas.

[Lighteyes]

I think I am starting to see your point. you want the game to be about taking ground. maybe they should block up the map to have perks when you take over areas. make the towers with the cannons areas where you get dps and health bonuses for owning that ground. Personally i want to get geared so I can play a game really competitively like the way you view conquest someday will be.

buffs won't do for several reasons

1) creates a steamroller effect. Faction A get's a buff and gets stronger, so they take over more, so the get more buffs, so they get stronger, so they take over more...

2) buffs aren't "rewards". In and of themselves they don't help you get currency (they do help you win, but it is the winning that gets you the reward).

3) intangible and hard to measure the direct reward of. (see the part about perception of ease)


no, rewards need to be concrete, obvious, and valued. One mark per 100 kills would be a good example of something that would encourage PVP over flipping.

[Lathais]

I like the ideas that center around it being more about taking and defending ground. As it is, there are too many points to capture to have half a chance at holding them, however, if you HAD to go through one to get to the next, then a team could slowly advance up and hold when a force comes to take it. Once they deal with that they either press on or have to focus on re taking that. I am picturing each faction having a triangle where they start at one point and spread out from there, having to hold all points on the front level. The further you progress, the more your team has to spread out, making it harder to defend.

[Hoarfrost]

Grats Trion on making conquest dreadful to play. First off you nuked the reward's from the first week down to nothing so proably 15% of all players actually got everything they wanted asap. So what did you do turn down rewards fine that's ok but then jacking up the prices on gear with marks not cool espically with your new "FIX" has made this nothing but a pve battle just did a battle and there was only one kill and 90% of the extractors had been taken. Personally I think you should scratch the conquest idea and come back with a new battle because no one does other then to get marks which you keep nerfing so really what's the point it's not fun at all before it actually was see how many kills you could get in a single conquest but now it's just a drag to get it over with so you can your mesely marks and go back to doing something fun.

[Sariina]

Grats Trion on making conquest dreadful to play. First off you nuked the reward's from the first week down to nothing so proably 15% of all players actually got everything they wanted asap.

Not players, unpunished cheaters. Big difference.

[Zengar Zombolt]

Conquest is meant to be something that's different from Warfronts and something that emulates open world PvP. It's meant to cater a bit toward all types of players, and imo it serves as a nice entry to PvP for those new level 50's who don't want to get steamrolled in Warfronts just to get Prestige ranks.

Uuuunfortunately the attitudes of a chunk of the playerbase has pretty much dumped on this concept. Instead it's now all about rewards and tagging the Death Foci/Colossi. To some it's seen more as a chore/PvE fest than anything fun/PvP oriented. And these players make up a big enough chunk of the playerbase to where they really kind of ruin the spirit of Conquest. Just because this isn't some big new PvP-only feature that caters specifically to their own desires. Also PvE elitists whine about it because of how at least some of the trinkets are considered Best-in-Slot items for them, and they apparently -need- to have these trinkets now.

So basically it was a great idea that was a blast on the PTS but was then ruined by a chunk of the live playerbase who exploited oversights and are now whining that they can't just farm kills for quick prestige/favor anymore and God forbid there be a single PvP item that competes with/is better than something in PvE. Because Trion's been trying to work around the fact that they can't fix the mindset of some players who like to exploit/take the easy route in everything.

I wouldn't complain if they randomized faction entry though. Too many bandwagon onto the winning faction (for an easy win of course) and thus the other two factions get screwed if enough competent players aren't on them, since the bigger zergs typically win. I still find Conquest fun, but the attitude of players in that is steadily growing worse. Which really just ruins the fun of it.