How can Anyone Stomach the PVP long enough to actually get gear in this game?

[saboikie]

The issue is not that the game is gear based. It is a grind MMO after all

The issue is that ranked encounters have been removed, and max ranked (i.e. geared) players get access to lower geared players, which is the equivalent of facing off on Ishkal or Greenscale on your own.

I suspect that most of the max ranked players who post here have been playing RIFT since beta, so when they ranked up, they did not have to do as much respawning as players newer to RIFT have to endure. When they leveled they were all pretty much much even.

I accept the gear aspect. I don't like the unbalanced warfront compositions.
R40-50 should be in their own warfronts, and if that means longer ques, so be it.

The gear gap between tier 1 and tier 3/4 is massive. (http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ml#post3848387), and anyone suggesting otherwise must be either delusional or lying. Fact.

In short:
If you want to keep the gear gap, keep the matched warfronts
If you don't want matched warfronts, stop qq-ing because players are qq-ing about the gear disparity.

My 2c

[Kyera]

There are gateway tiers that were, for whatever reason, still left in.

The sets you probably should be comparing are Stalker tier (and equivalents), Criterion tier (and equivalents), and Pathfinder tier (and equivalents). These are positioned as the three PvP progression tiers (imo the older pieces should have been removed altogether, but idk what the thought process was for this front).

Criterion-tier and Pathfinder-tier are pretty close, barring differences in armor (keeping in mind PvP limits/caps on this), endurance, and vengeance and Stalker-tier is more than competitive with Criterion and Pathfinder tier (speaking from experience).

Edit: Oh, also, you need to keep in mind that you don't just "flick a switch" to switch between these tiers. It's a gradual transition, and if you're picking the right pieces, you can quickly start to narrow those gaps.

[Synovia]

Good god you suck...

Seriously OP don't listen to this one that much. Except that MM's are a very good spec to run in pvp. Gear helps, but is not the deciding factor. You said you die to warriors that charge, stun and cornered beast you to death. If that is happening, you are just WAY to close. If you are a melee rogue, there are ways to put the hurt on wars and be sure to use CDs, wars for the most part do not have any and once in a fight are dedicated to it. Also, deflect works VERY well if your going melee, that is the rogue version of being a sword and board warrior.

Personally, if I were you, just stay at range. Right now being at range is your best defense. Your 35 meter range vs a warriors 20 meter range is no contest. Practice and you should tear apart a champ without breaking a sweat. The ones you SHOULD be worried about are Riftblade warriors, but even then they still only have a 20m range. They can use thunderous leap to close the gap then port to you, but at that point they have no escapes.

In my personal opinion, rogues are by far the best class for pvp overall. Wars may be a bit OP but it is limited to certain things and for the most part, limited to melee range.

OP

Please see the above quote for Exhibit A. I don't really need to say anything else.

[Fujitasix]

Whatever happened to 44mm 22sin 0rs? Is it that hard to play with some finesse and intelligence? Permanent hasted stealth and a blind to go with your MM arsenal?

You can knock them back (twice), static shot, blind, kick them in the groin, escape/double time/rapid reload/double time/escape/hasted shot/RS port yourself halfway across the conquest map and get OOC before people even knew where you went, comfortably back in stealth, mounted up, or drinking back to full.

I just finished my warrior, so I guess it's time to refresh my muscle memory for wrecking faces with my rogue. See ya soon.

[aeio]

The issue is not that the game is gear based. It is a grind MMO after all

The issue is that ranked encounters have been removed, and max ranked (i.e. geared) players get access to lower geared players, which is the equivalent of facing off on Ishkal or Greenscale on your own.

I suspect that most of the max ranked players who post here have been playing RIFT since beta, so when they ranked up, they did not have to do as much respawning as players newer to RIFT have to endure. When they leveled they were all pretty much much even.

I accept the gear aspect. I don't like the unbalanced warfront compositions.
R40-50 should be in their own warfronts, and if that means longer ques, so be it.

The gear gap between tier 1 and tier 3/4 is massive. (http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ml#post3848387), and anyone suggesting otherwise must be either delusional or lying. Fact.

In short:
If you want to keep the gear gap, keep the matched warfronts
If you don't want matched warfronts, stop qq-ing because players are qq-ing about the gear disparity.

My 2c

My recollection of the gear disparity post is it does not account for bolstering at all. Again it is not nearly as big a deal as some make it out to be.

The current disparity between a new fifty and fully geared player is only a small fraction of what it used to be. It is like you used to have to play one on one as a 5'4" guy versus a 6'6" guy and now you get to be 6'3" vs the 6'6" guy.

[Kaelani]

As a Cleric who likes to heal, I swore off PvP MONTHS ago.
Spending 50% of your time respawning or CCed wasn't much fun.

However, thanks to Conquest, I actually PvPed this week.... not just in CQ, but in Warfronts, too.
Here's a few thoughts that might help:

I have full relic HK gear, and after looking, I found I had (3) Repudiator PvP pieces, Heretic Boots, and the rest was Retributor gear. (in other words, really crappy PvP gear for an R32.) In warfronts, I found my healing was better with the relic gear (due to the large SP bonus), but my survivability was crap. When I switched to my PvP gear, I was JUST as squishy, and healed for less.

Odd thing about healing Conquest... you can't do it effectively if your raid is spread out over the whole map. I never saw more than 5 members of my raid in a single zerg all week... so AoE healing doesn't work.

As a result, I switched over to a 51 Inquisitor damage build. (I just wanted to do anything other than die, for a change). At this point, I found that I did more damage with my crappy PvP gear, because the Valor on the junk gear is just as good as the Valor on higher level gear. I used my Favor and Prestige potions from the Veteran's Reward packages, and quickly (about 8 hours) went from R32 to R38. I used all my new favor to get rid of all the Repudiator's, and upgrade 3/4ths of my pieces to Heretic's gear. This made a noticable difference in my damage AND my survivability.

Filled with confidence, I jumped into a Conquest, and casted my favorite PvE AoE (Circle of Oblivion) into the enemy zerg. Each time I did this, I died in less than one frame update. I then realized that my AoE was switching the focus of those affected enemy players... TO ME! That means I got hit by a gazillion spells and abilities at once, each time I did that. Lesson #1: DON'T DO THAT!

I found that by stagger-stepping near the leading edge of the raid, I could tab-target, and spam an insta-cast damage spell or two. I'd then tab off that player, and hit someone else. Other people's damage would then pull their focus off of me, and I was incognito again. As a result, I began living for 10 minutes at a time. Better yet, I was actually able to kill several people in 1v1 action. (IMPOSSIBLE!!! ...and it had never happened before) I actually got the achievement in BG for killing an enemy player while holding the flag after 18 months of playing this game. (Can you tell I am a healer at heart?)

To sum up what would be a massive wall of test:
1) I had fun in PvP for the first time since Runes of Magic Siege Wars almost 2 years ago.
2) I found that it only took me about 8 hours (with potions) to get PvP gear that got me semi-competitive.
3) Learn to keep a low profile, if you're squishy.
4) Don't take dying every minute to heart... they can one-shot you, and you can't do crap about it.
5) Zerg Lag is a heck of an equalizer. Use it to your advantage.

[HannonHellbringer]

OP

Please see the above quote for Exhibit A. I don't really need to say anything else.

Haters gonna hate...

Seriously Synovia, you far from good to be giving any advice. You've spent SOOO much time just whining and complaining on the forums instead of asking for advice. See the thing is there are good players from each class, none of which have problems dealing with opposing classes. You would rather have the ENTIRE game bend over backwards to suit your personal preference, instead of just learning how to play.

You also rag on Rift pvp for not being competitive. Maybe its your lack of skill, did you ever think of that? Sure, once the population jumps up there should be a better matched system but right now, no. Plus the bolstering is making a difference. As for your macro thing, those players using only one or two macros are pretty much bad. I think Spaceboot's vid on his macros was the best vid out there, 15-20 different macros, if you want to be most effective since sticking EVERYTHING into one or two macros is the worst move ever. Not really sure where this, one - two macro spamming thing came from...

Now the gear, lets talk about the gear. I'm talking about the three current tiers of gear at the pvp vendors. They are all competitive with eachother. The stats, are so damned close that the only thing separating them if a few bases stats from the first tier to the second the from the second to the third is mostly just end and vengeance. If you cannot see the competitive possibility in that then you should just not pvp.

[Synovia]

Haters gonna hate...

Seriously Synovia, you far from good to be giving any advice. You've spent SOOO much time just whining and complaining on the forums instead of asking for advice. See the thing is there are good players from each class, none of which have problems dealing with opposing classes. You would rather have the ENTIRE game bend over backwards to suit your personal preference, instead of just learning how to play.

You also rag on Rift pvp for not being competitive. Maybe its your lack of skill, did you ever think of that? Sure, once the population jumps up there should be a better matched system but right now, no. Plus the bolstering is making a difference. As for your macro thing, those players using only one or two macros are pretty much bad. I think Spaceboot's vid on his macros was the best vid out there, 15-20 different macros, if you want to be most effective since sticking EVERYTHING into one or two macros is the worst move ever. Not really sure where this, one - two macro spamming thing came from...

Now the gear, lets talk about the gear. I'm talking about the three current tiers of gear at the pvp vendors. They are all competitive with eachother. The stats, are so damned close that the only thing separating them if a few bases stats from the first tier to the second the from the second to the third is mostly just end and vengeance. If you cannot see the competitive possibility in that then you should just not pvp.

My arguments on these boards have been primarily about the extensive gear grind in PvP, that is has been confirmed over and over with actual math and user experience. In this thread, the OP is talking about the gear grind being awful (which we already knew) and is also talking about how, even while bolstered, he is getting destroyed. I then called out the very obvious fact that Rift PvP is a gear-based game of "zerging" where the strategy and actual skill in PvP doesn't extend much beyond coordinating attacks. Given the very randomness of Rift PvP due to the vast number of potential soul combination, how the diminishing returns is implemented, and how the game engine provides a thin layer of "latency" to any action compared to other MMO PvP (i.e. WoW and it's "fluid" and "crisp" combat), Rift PvP simply cannot be much about "skill" - especially not when such a gear grind exists simply to get to a point where one can be competitive.

You can hate me all you'd like and you can attempt to mock everything I'm saying but that doesn't change the fact that I'm 100% correct in my assessment. Further, I'd be VERY willing to put money down on the fact I would destroy you 1v1. I'd be interested in reading the conversation thereafter where you'd grasp for any possible excuse you could find. Feel free to seek me out. My character's name is Synovia and I'm a Defiant Rogue on Laethys in <Negative Ghostrider>. If you happen to be on Laethys, you can duel me any time you'd like. I'll accept immediately. If you happen to see me in a Warfront or Conquest, say hello and let's go off to the side for a 1v1. Afterwards you can come explain on this board why such an "awful" player repeatedly wrecked you.

EDIT: In a strange way I do have to thank you. Your stupidity has given me the inspiration to write up a blog post explaining precisely why Rift PvP, using the current system, can never really be very "skill-based". I'll probably put that together tonight. I'll be sure to give you a shout out.

[Violacea]

Dude, you dont know what the hell you are talking about.

He is absolutely correct that it used to be harder as a fresh 50 in Rift. Sup non normalized valor. Couple normalized valor with bolstering and this game has come a long way for the beginner in a conceptually progression based game.

[spaceboots]

You know it's getting real when a rogue wants to 1v1.

[Synovia]

You know it's getting real when a rogue wants to 1v1.

inorite? In fact, I would let him choose whether I go melee or ranged. He can have his pick.

[Kanabull]

He is absolutely correct that it used to be harder as a fresh 50 in Rift. Sup non normalized valor. Couple normalized valor with bolstering and this game has come a long way for the beginner in a conceptually progression based game.

Which i supported later in my post that you edited out....

[HannonHellbringer]

My arguments on these boards have been primarily about the extensive gear grind in PvP, that is has been confirmed over and over with actual math and user experience. In this thread, the OP is talking about the gear grind being awful (which we already knew) and is also talking about how, even while bolstered, he is getting destroyed. I then called out the very obvious fact that Rift PvP is a gear-based game of "zerging" where the strategy and actual skill in PvP doesn't extend much beyond coordinating attacks. Given the very randomness of Rift PvP due to the vast number of potential soul combination, how the diminishing returns is implemented, and how the game engine provides a thin layer of "latency" to any action compared to other MMO PvP (i.e. WoW and it's "fluid" and "crisp" combat), Rift PvP simply cannot be much about "skill" - especially not when such a gear grind exists simply to get to a point where one can be competitive.

You can hate me all you'd like and you can attempt to mock everything I'm saying but that doesn't change the fact that I'm 100% correct in my assessment. Further, I'd be VERY willing to put money down on the fact I would destroy you 1v1. I'd be interested in reading the conversation thereafter where you'd grasp for any possible excuse you could find. Feel free to seek me out. My character's name is Synovia and I'm a Defiant Rogue on Laethys in <Negative Ghostrider>. If you happen to be on Laethys, you can duel me any time you'd like. I'll accept immediately. If you happen to see me in a Warfront or Conquest, say hello and let's go off to the side for a 1v1. Afterwards you can come explain on this board why such an "awful" player repeatedly wrecked you.

EDIT: In a strange way I do have to thank you. Your stupidity has given me the inspiration to write up a blog post explaining precisely why Rift PvP, using the current system, can never really be very "skill-based". I'll probably put that together tonight. I'll be sure to give you a shout out.

LMFAO!!!!

first off your info is hardly right. Second, the OP is talking about dying to a champ that is atleast 44 points into the champ soul. the most kiteable and squishy of ALL the warrior souls. Third, note that the teams that have better organization win and usually farm the other team. Zerging does happen but zerging only works vs weaker zerging groups. No offense but you obviously do not know as much as you like to think you know. Fourth, you are right about the latency, but like I stated before, spread you macros out a bit, make more of them, it decreases the macro lag and increases your effectiveness once you learn to play with more keybinds.

I'd love to give you a duel or two, what happened, I thought you were on Faeblight? I may only get to see you in Conquest but I'm sure we can get something worked out. As for you smashing me, lets be real, you might want to bring a few friends with you.

[Kanabull]

My arguments on these boards have been primarily about the extensive gear grind in PvP, that is has been confirmed over and over with actual math and user experience. In this thread, the OP is talking about the gear grind being awful (which we already knew) and is also talking about how, even while bolstered, he is getting destroyed. I then called out the very obvious fact that Rift PvP is a gear-based game of "zerging" where the strategy and actual skill in PvP doesn't extend much beyond coordinating attacks. Given the very randomness of Rift PvP due to the vast number of potential soul combination, how the diminishing returns is implemented, and how the game engine provides a thin layer of "latency" to any action compared to other MMO PvP (i.e. WoW and it's "fluid" and "crisp" combat), Rift PvP simply cannot be much about "skill" - especially not when such a gear grind exists simply to get to a point where one can be competitive.

You can hate me all you'd like and you can attempt to mock everything I'm saying but that doesn't change the fact that I'm 100% correct in my assessment. Further, I'd be VERY willing to put money down on the fact I would destroy you 1v1. I'd be interested in reading the conversation thereafter where you'd grasp for any possible excuse you could find. Feel free to seek me out. My character's name is Synovia and I'm a Defiant Rogue on Laethys in <Negative Ghostrider>. If you happen to be on Laethys, you can duel me any time you'd like. I'll accept immediately. If you happen to see me in a Warfront or Conquest, say hello and let's go off to the side for a 1v1. Afterwards you can come explain on this board why such an "awful" player repeatedly wrecked you.

EDIT: In a strange way I do have to thank you. Your stupidity has given me the inspiration to write up a blog post explaining precisely why Rift PvP, using the current system, can never really be very "skill-based". I'll probably put that together tonight. I'll be sure to give you a shout out.

To bad he will never accept that challenge...i wouldnt want to be humiliated by a rogue either....

[Kanabull]

LMFAO!!!!

first off your info is hardly right. Second, the OP is talking about dying to a champ that is atleast 44 points into the champ soul. the most kiteable and squishy of ALL the warrior souls. Third, note that the teams that have better organization win and usually farm the other team. Zerging does happen but zerging only works vs weaker zerging groups. No offense but you obviously do not know as much as you like to think you know. Fourth, you are right about the latency, but like I stated before, spread you macros out a bit, make more of them, it decreases the macro lag and increases your effectiveness once you learn to play with more keybinds.

I'd love to give you a duel or two, what happened, I thought you were on Faeblight? I may only get to see you in Conquest but I'm sure we can get something worked out. As for you smashing me, lets be real, you might want to bring a few friends with you.

I'm pretty sure the OP didnt say anything about champs, or warriors....