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Thread: Conquest the worst designed PvP ever?

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    Ascendant No_Exit's Avatar
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    Default Conquest the worst designed PvP ever?

    Conquest has got to be the worst designed PvP i have ever seen in any game. That includes Warhammer which i played for several years. Conquest actually reminds me somewhat of how bad Warhammer Fort sieges were before Mythic removed Forts from the game after multiple attempts to fix the problems.

    At first conquest was simply a race to join Oath or Dom and farm the crap out of Night in their base. Little else was of concern due to the massive returns of Favor/Prestige while still grabbin a few marks. But that quickly changed with the adjustments recently. The MEGA turrets 1 shot anyone within a football field of them meaning the Night base is not even worth going to. The reduction in player numbers means spending most of the map running around looking for anything to kill... and squealing in excitment when you spot 1 enemy only to not make it to them before someone else gets the kill. It also means often spending most of the time not able to get into conquests due to the queues.

    Let me explain what Conquest currently is.

    Conquest Starting
    SPAM K SPAM K SPAM K
    Hit join Oath as soon as it shows on your screen... only to be told sorry... your in a never ending queue. We stick you in this Queue to give you some hope.. only to say screw you and make you wait another 1-2 hours for the next conquest in the almost futile hope that you will make it in.

    -or-

    Conquest starting
    SPAM K SPAM K SPAM K
    Hit join Oath.... and enter into game.
    Rush boss 1... rush boss 2... attempt to make boss 3 but Dom already got it.
    Spread out and grab any and all Extractors while mostly avoiding the other 2 factions.
    Oath wins in short fashion
    Tag every foci plus boss you can for marks... join the cluster-youknowwhat at boss for possible actual PvP provided Dom/Night show up. Roll them... go back to boss...
    Run around getting any leftover extractors or sourcestone mats
    Wait another 1-2 hours for the snorefest that is conquest simply because you need the BiS trinket and some gear thats honestly meh

    Cant blame Trion for the reasoning behind the changes... i mean.. server stability is important... and having 1 side get farmed every conquest sucks....

    But these changes? Well they basically accomplished nothing. They made a lag fest that was fun at times, especially if you were not on Night.... a snore fest that isnt fun at all, regardless of what side you join.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Well, this is certainly highly constructive feedback.
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    Shadowlander
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    what did you expect from a pve game?

    arena would have been simply better and easy to implement. I guess dev wanted to try something new and so far it's just an epic fail.

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    such an epic fail that many hundreds of players are eager to play it and thus there a queues to get in?

    - lol -

    conquest is by far no fail, and by far its not comparable to the fail warhammer online was. it has its faults, granted, but nothing that cant be fixed.

    biggest fail are the whiners in this forum actually

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    Ascendant No_Exit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    Well, this is certainly highly constructive feedback.
    It is.. in the sense that its exactly whats happening in every Conquest atm... and thereby Trion can make adjustments based on that info.

    But no... its not actual suggestions for how to change it, although i can certainly list a TON.

    1: Balance the layout of the map, spawn points, and extractors so that Oath doesnt always have the advantage
    2: Nerf the Night Turrets so that they hit hard but are not 1 shots.. meaning you can fight your way into Night but they have an easier time defend farming.
    3: Change the way Marks are earned to a more consistent... over time system... so that it rewards contribution and not tagging.
    4: Buff the port Turrets so that ports actually become more of a factor and cant be defeated by 1 person.
    5: Change the queue system so that if you cant join 1 side.. it offers you the ability to join another side.. or at least.. leave the queue.

    Shall i go on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos View Post
    such an epic fail that many hundreds of players are eager to play it and thus there a queues to get in?
    conquest is by far no fail, and by far its not comparable to the fail warhammer online was. it has its faults, granted, but nothing that cant be fixed.
    The queue is due to the fact that its "new" and the fact that they are currently limiting the number of people due to server stability issues. The queue is NOT an example of the health of the system or conquest.
    Last edited by No_Exit; 07-03-2012 at 01:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos View Post
    such an epic fail that many hundreds of players are eager to play it and thus there a queues to get in?

    - lol -

    conquest is by far no fail, and by far its not comparable to the fail warhammer online was. it has its faults, granted, but nothing that cant be fixed.

    biggest fail are the whiners in this forum actually
    How many of those people in conquest actually want to play it and how many are just there because the stuff you get from it is BiS(essences, trinket, synergy crystal) and there's no other way to get those things?

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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Exit View Post
    It is.. in the sense that its exactly whats happening in every Conquest atm... and thereby Trion can make adjustments based on that info.

    But no... its not actual suggestions for how to change it, although i can certainly list a TON.

    1: Balance the layout of the map, spawn points, and extractors so that Oath doesnt always have the advantage
    2: Nerf the Night Turrets so that they hit hard but are not 1 shots.. meaning you can fight your way into Night but they have an easier time defend farming.
    3: Change the way Marks are earned to a more consistent... over time system... so that it rewards contribution and not tagging.
    4: Buff the port Turrets so that ports actually become more of a factor and cant be defeated by 1 person.
    5: Change the queue system so that if you cant join 1 side.. it offers you the ability to join another side.. or at least.. leave the queue.

    Shall i go on?
    1. Oath didnt win ONE conquest tonight, on our battlegroup, so its not the position.
    2. ah you want your unfair spawncamping back ^^
    3. reasonable suggestion
    4. you do know, crafters can place additional turrets and healing turrets etc.? time so save for the eye and put together a strong defense there. called tactics?
    5. yes
    Last edited by Antigonos; 07-03-2012 at 01:14 PM.

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    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos View Post
    such an epic fail that many hundreds of players are eager to play it and thus there a queues to get in?

    - lol -

    conquest is by far no fail, and by far its not comparable to the fail warhammer online was. it has its faults, granted, but nothing that cant be fixed.

    biggest fail are the whiners in this forum actually
    another sheep in the crowd

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    Ascendant No_Exit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos View Post
    1. Oath didnt win ONE conquest tonight, on our battlegroup, so its not the position.
    2. ah you want your unfair spawncamping back ^^
    3. reasonable suggestion
    4. you do know, crafters can place additional turrets and healing turrets etc.? time so save for the eye and put together a strong defense there. called tactics?
    5. yes
    1: It may depend on the battlegroup.. but regardless you can plainly see on the map the advantage that Oath has. Perhaps in your battlegroup enough good players are going Dom to offset that advantage but it is there.

    2: Never said that.. nice try. I simply said.. make it so that turrets are not a 1 shot but are still tough. This would allow a possible strategy of attempting to fight your way into the Night base and Night would have an easier time defending due to the turret damage. Whereas before folks could walk in... now they would have to earn their way in, and Night could still do ok defending with regards to reward returns.

    3: yup

    4: Realistically how many folks are actually going to craft turrets when the conquests are so short and the costs pretty high to make them. And since theres little reward for the crafter......

    5: yup

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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Exit View Post
    1: 4: Realistically how many folks are actually going to craft turrets when the conquests are so short and the costs pretty high to make them. And since theres little reward for the crafter......
    i played 2 conquests tonight, one lasted 1 hour the second about 2hours. You are really in a weird battlegroup, or europeans just play this thing differently.

    i built like 5 turrets and some healing turrets during those conquests, giving us the eye for most of the time.
    we splitted raids and always had 1 raid near midle while 2 others were fighting at crucial choke points and i think a random group was taking objectives.

    percentage was quite even most of the time, we had to fight back 2 times with one faction being at 58% for some minutes but we could prevent them from winning.

    we finally were able to push to caer mathos and win the thing. with like 500 of 12000 kills left on the clock ^^

    was a blast
    Last edited by Antigonos; 07-03-2012 at 01:23 PM.

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    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Exit View Post
    1: It may depend on the battlegroup.. but regardless you can plainly see on the map the advantage that Oath has. Perhaps in your battlegroup enough good players are going Dom to offset that advantage but it is there.
    Dom has the most advantegeous tactical position, especially if they can secure the Mathos area to open up another approach, but they can easily squander it. Oathsworn has the second best pick, because they can effectively harass both of the other factions, and have quickest access to three portals, but can find themselves equally susceptible to sustained pressure from all sides (and thus have to play the most aggressive D). Nightfall has, by far, the worst position for a match of Conquest, in that they are easily pushed into by Oathsworn and have quite a jaunt to do any real damage to Dominion; however, they too can greatly improve their position by securing Mathos (and, to a lesser extent, the Eye) and setting up a raid to hold and defend the Nightfall/Oathsworn border.

    The problem is that everyone facerolls their keyboards into oblivion, and this postions Oathsworn quite well (especially if Dom doesn't play any D on their eastern flank).
    Last edited by Kyera; 07-03-2012 at 01:31 PM.
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  12. #12
    Ascendant No_Exit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    Dom has the most advantegeous tactical position, especially if they can secure the Mathos area to open up another approach, but they can easily squander it. Oathsworn has the second best pick, because they can effectively harass both of the other factions, and have quickest access to three portals, but can find themselves equally susceptible to sustained pressure from all sides (and thus have to play the most aggressive D). Nightfall has, by far, the worst position for a match of Conquest, in that they are easily pushed into by Oathsworn and have quite a jaunt to do any real damage to Dominion; however, they too can greatly improve their position by securing Mathos (and, to a lesser extent, the Eye) and setting up a raid to hold and defend the Nightfall/Oathsworn border.

    The problem is that everyone facerolls their keyboards into oblivion, and this postions Oathsworn quite well (especially if Dom doesn't play any D on their eastern flank).

    Your failing to take into account the current amount of players in a conquest. Your right.. DOM does have the "most advantageous tactical position" as you put it. However... thats only with larger numbers because they simply can not make use of that position properly with the current size of the teams.

    And of course.. any team can dominate with the right amount of skilled players on a particular side. The advantages of a particular faction mean nothing when it comes to the advantages that a large amount of skill players on a particular faction can bring.

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    Ascendant Slipmat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Exit View Post
    Conquest has got to be the worst designed PvP i have ever seen in any game
    Wintergrasp lagging out the whole server for weeks while a match was on and sitting on your mount on the bridge at Lol Barad exploiting maximum points for zero Pee Vee Pee at all and get BiS gear in 2 days says hello

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos View Post
    1. Oath didnt win ONE conquest tonight, on our battlegroup, so its not the position.
    This is the main point i have been trying to get everyone to understand. Oath winning every match in 5 minutes is only happening in our battle group. Conquest is bad for our group because we are making it bad. It's fun and balanced in the other groups cause they are making it fun and balanced. If you guys want Oath to stop winning, stop sprinting for CM boss every game, start taking Extractors and pushing them back.
    Last edited by Dakon; 07-03-2012 at 02:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakon View Post
    This is the main point i have been trying to get everyone to understand. Oath winning every match in 5 minutes is only happening in our battle group. Conquest is bad for our group because we are making it bad. It's fun and balanced in the other groups cause they are making it fun and balanced. If you guys want Oath to stop winning, stop sprinting for CM boss every game start taking Extractors and pushing them back.
    The problem is convincing the number of players choosing Oathsworn to play differently. There isn't much you can do to change their minds. Most people are mindlessly following the swarm like little lemmings.
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