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Thread: Conquest thoughts? (No timer talk)

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    Shadowlander Shaiapouf's Avatar
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    Default Conquest thoughts? (No timer talk)

    So, I wanted to sorta talk about conquest without getting into the whole cooldown and stuff for those who have been able to play so far. If theres a topic out there I haven't seen, forgive me, but I didn't see one.

    Anyway! Overall...I have mixed feelings. I don't dislike conquest, far from it. The more open, and able to do multiple things is quite nice as opposed to the more strict, "close quarters" of the normal warfronts gives a nice open feel.

    Yet that same "nice open" is kinda why I dislike it...it seems almost -too- big. To elaborate, one of the biggest drawbacks for me is that quite simply, I think theres too many players...each player as an individual doesn't seem to matter much, and going around even in small groups tends to get one thoroughly stomped. For instance, I ran in a group of...oh, about 10 people I think (Albeit only like 3 others were in my raid) yet even in what would normally be quite the formidable force, we were swept upon by such a huge number of players I could not count, and anything would be simply a wild guess.

    These huge groups seem to just dominate Conquest to a gross degree, just tearing over most everything in their path with little one can do to stop them. At the end of the match I stated previously, my team the Oathsworn were essentially blocked in as the top right teleporter had such a massive amount of people camping around it, I could not even load all of the people and saw an army of red names hovering everywhere before well...I crashed.

    While I'm sure that in time, things will stabilize a little on the whole insane population to where the player and tactics will start to ooze their way out, thats probably the biggest complaint I'd have. Smaller ones being as another thread said, the positioning of the three factions are a tad off (Oathsworn so far from Caer Mathos being one of the big ones, leading to a poor early showing from the games I played, though the first Oathsworn -did- still win.). Also, the map size may feel a little...large as well...the time it takes to respond to a place being wailed on usually means it'll at least be destroyed if you're not close to it, provided it isn't a lone warrior (Not litterally) trying to solo it.

    But all in all, I look forward to what it will become. I think theres still room for improvement into something even greater than it is now. And again, to reiterate, please no talk on cooldowns/ques...I just wanna see what people like/dislike about it.

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara BrownsMageNerfDelivery's Avatar
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    Well, since one subject is off-limits...yeah, the map is a little big. There needs to be some way of quickly getting to the action (aside from the riding speed buff...1 percent per stack isn't gonna really help people get places quickly. Right now, terrain is playing a pretty big advantage in moving quickly conventionally, and some factions have more advantageous positions.

    As for now, I'm hoping for something that circumvents the current zerg strategy, but I'm not sure exactly what the best course of action would be. Then again, only did one conquest this afternoon, so my sample size is small.

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    Plane Walker
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    I think it's horribly disorganized, but very fun nonetheless.

    Earlier today i was running with a group of probably 60 people and didn't have anyone in my 20 person raid in my line of sight. I wasn't really getting any heals in a system where warriors already melt pretty quickly. I think with a system like this, where i may be spawning on the other end of stillmoor from the people in my raid group, that every minute or so groups should be recalculated so that you are with the 18 people closest to you.. that way, healers can keep an eye on the people that they are actually responsible for.

    An alternative improvement i would make would be to name the groups alpha, bravo, charlie, etc and show a marker on the map centered around the largest group of them and having key extraction points be cappable respawn points. This way there would be a heavier need to guard certain points instead of the current system of misdirection and chaos in small groups > all in a match with this many participants
    Last edited by Scarchasm; 06-27-2012 at 06:33 PM.

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    RIFT Guide Writer intrinsc's Avatar
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    They need to allow a flag summon for "reinforcements" so you can easily get people to the middle of the action.
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    Shadowlander Shaiapouf's Avatar
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    I was only able to get in two as well, so I'm not exactly overflowing with experience either. *Chuckles* Anyway, one thing with the getting around is the warp gates if you control them, which is the triangles on the map which allow you to quickly go to each one...albeit, you have to be at your base to use them and of course control them.

    But I agree with the terrain. Being the oathsworn on top of the cliffs, I tend to take a lot of falling damage if I don't go circling all the way around when where I need to go is quite literally just below me. Then of course, the crater and Zarephs are kinda just complete deathtraps once you get far enough into the match usually, though its designed to be such pretty much as far as I can tell (Even if they didn't plan for such when they were making the "normal" stillmore)

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    Plane Walker Ashrai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarchasm View Post
    I think it's horribly disorganized, but very fun nonetheless.

    Earlier today i was running with a group of probably 60 people and didn't have anyone in my 20 person raid in my line of sight. I wasn't really getting any heals in a system where warriors already melt pretty quickly. I think with a system like this, where i may be spawning on the other end of stillmoor from the people in my raid group, that every minute or so groups should be recalculated so that you are with the 18 people closest to you.. that way, healers can keep an eye on the people that they are actually responsible for.

    An alternative improvement i would make would be to name the groups alpha, bravo, charlie, etc and show a marker on the map centered around the largest group of them and having key extraction points be cappable respawn points. This way there would be a heavier need to guard certain points instead of the current system of misdirection and chaos in small groups > all in a match with this many participants
    This is my biggest issue. I don't know why they didn't implement 40+man raid functionality in terms of raidframes for this. As I've said in other posts- why didn't anyone think of these things before pushing live?

    I guess they thought that since this isn't a "pvp game" that Conquest matches would be lucky to even fill 20 men per side? Sorry Trion, PVPers have been salivating for content for far too long, and this is the result.
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    Rift Disciple Fohox's Avatar
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    I've been playing conquest quite a bit and so far its just 'okay'. I think there a few tweaks that need to be made to make it feel more strategic and not so much like a zergfest.

    Some issues I have so far:
    1. There's little to no strategy involved. Its just several zergs running from one point to another. Biggest zerg wins the extractor.

    2. As a healer I feel absolutely useless. Because of the zergs and massive AoE everyone dies so quickly it's pointless even trying to heal. Also, because half the people fighting alongside you aren't in your warband they don't benefit from AoE heals making it even more pointless.

    3. As some posters above have mentioned the map is too large. You spend so much time traveling from one extractor to the next only to die in a few seconds once you run into a zerg. The portals help some but it should be easier to rejoin your warband. Maybe allow players to spawn on members of their party like BF3?

    4. There's a lack of focus. Because the map is so large and objectives are always available to be taken you end up of with a merry-go-round effect where all 3 sides are just running in circles taking extractors from each other. They could have locked nodes for a minute or two after they've been taken. Or, they could have required objectives to be taken in a more specific order. For instance, you can only cap an objective if your side owns the one adjacent to it. This would create more chokepoints and eliminate the merry-go-round effect some.

    I think they have a good foundation to build on with conquest mode. It just needs some more thought put into it.
    Last edited by Fohox; 06-27-2012 at 07:41 PM.

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    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intrinsc View Post
    They need to allow a flag summon for "reinforcements" so you can easily get people to the middle of the action.
    Yeah, a 'raid rally' crafted item, even on a ~5m CD, would be a nice feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fohox View Post
    Or, they could have required objectives to be taken in a more specific order. For instance, you can only cap an objective if your side owns the one adjacent to it. This would create more chokepoints and eliminate the merry-go-round effect some.
    You're trading the tactical benefit of splitting your forces and trying to slip 'behind enemy lines' to ninja an objective for easier defence in this case, but note that this concentrates the zergball even more.
    Last edited by Kyera; 06-27-2012 at 08:28 PM.
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    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fohox View Post
    I've been playing conquest quite a bit and so far its just 'okay'. I think there a few tweaks that need to be made to make it feel more strategic and not so much like a zergfest.

    Some issues I have so far:
    1. There's little to no strategy involved. Its just several zergs running from one point to another. Biggest zerg wins the extractor.

    2. As a healer I feel absolutely useless. Because of the zergs and massive AoE everyone dies so quickly it's pointless even trying to heal. Also, because half the people fighting alongside you aren't in your warband they don't benefit from AoE heals making it even more pointless.

    3. As some posters above have mentioned the map is too large. You spend so much time traveling from one extractor to the next only to die in a few seconds once you run into a zerg. The portals help some but it should be easier to rejoin your warband. Maybe allow players to spawn on members of their party like BF3?

    4. There's a lack of focus. Because the map is so large and objectives are always available to be taken you end up of with a merry-go-round effect where all 3 sides are just running in circles taking extractors from each other. They could have locked nodes for a minute or two after they've been taken. Or, they could have required objectives to be taken in a more specific order. For instance, you can only cap an objective if your side owns the one adjacent to it. This would create more chokepoints and eliminate the merry-go-round effect some.

    I think they have a good foundation to build on with conquest mode. It just needs some more thought put into it.
    #2 is my biggest issue. Since healing (at least for Clerics) is so gimped now..it's nearly impossible to keep anyone alive. Trion: fix healing please!
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    Soulwalker Addisten1's Avatar
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    My biggest problem is the starting point of each team. Clearly Caer Mathos is a premium area to fight for. Which ends up leading to Nightfall fighting on two fronts. In every Conquest I ran Nightfall barely got above 25% control and I saw it drop to 8% mid match. They also never won, and its been pointed out before that the map is designed that the border between Oaths and Doms, is a wasteland that is only captured by very small grps.

    My suggestion would be to implement jumps and quick ports throughout the zone that allow ppl to scale up a mountain in no time or allow ppl to get down a hill quickly.

    They also need to add more extractors in the wasteland side of the map, make it a valuable area to control as well that way all 3 factions can expect fights on each side.

    The best way to break up zergs is to make it more valuable to split up. Just throwing out a thought that i'd like feedback on but, what if they made extractors easy to capture if there are no players nearby of that faction. Then make the extractors more defensive as more ppl are standing near it. I think this would make it more valuable to defend extractors, the problem currently is a grp zergs and extractor then immediately buffs it with sourcestone then more to the next extractor. If it became more valuable to defend then hopefully zergs would split up a bit more.

  11. #11
    Champion Synergis's Avatar
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    Introducing Conquest! The zerg to end all zergs!

    Seriously tho, 40+ raid frames plz.

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  12. #12
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    The map that seemed fine size wise in PTS now seems to small. There is just to many people. Its a massive zerg fest all the time. You die in seconds because health pools are to low.

    Changes I would make (not much you can do about the map).

    Make Extractor and turret HP scale (but not the same the collosi at the end scales, thats insanity). This will force people to slow down and create more flash points for battle.

    The kill timer needs to be much much larger. Like perhaps 10k. Right now matches are to fast for crafting to play much of a role.

    Craftable upgrades to fortified extractors to turn them into portal extractors. Get rid of the central portal in Zareph's its just a dumb spot for people to camp.

    Add more craftable objects for defensive purposes so people can hang on to extractors more readily. Mines, Baricades, etc. On the flip side a source powered catapult for seige and collosi assault might be cool.

    Lastly (and this one bares more study before a change is made) I'd increase control requirement to 75% to draw these matches out a bit, make the crafting be more of a issue, and overall allow for more strategy than a straight quick zerg rush.

    Add more planar charge crystals, with as many people as were in the map, finding them was very very hard.

    Conquest has alot of potential but its still very raw to me.
    Last edited by Khelendross; 06-27-2012 at 09:22 PM.
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    General of Telara Ashh's Avatar
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    I dont like teh q times

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    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    The map that seemed fine size wise in PTS now seems to small. There is just to many people. Its a massive zerg fest all the time. You die in seconds because health pools are to low.
    Now tell me what happens when you buff the HP pools to deal with the 'zerg dilemma' and we get into smaller-scale fights.
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    Shield of Telara WriteThemWrong's Avatar
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    Haven't been able to have much fun with it seeing as how Dominion wins all the games I've been in quite handily.

    It's incredibly annoying how they win so quickly, at least on my server. They start at 0 just like everyone else but then it's like 5%, 16%, 24%, 31%... but for Oath its like 2%, 6%, 9%, 12%... I don't know what it is but Dominion just rolls through every game even though the other factions are capping points and getting kills.

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