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Thread: Rank limit needed on PvE items in PvP?

  1. #1
    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    Default Rank limit needed on PvE items in PvP?

    I'm more interested in discussing the pro's and con's, meaning I'm not calling for a nerf. But I'm wondering if there aren't situations in flagged PvP where PvE items grant so much damage advantage and thus give quick kills unfairly, despite how much Valor someone else has and if otherwise equally ranked and geared (important to the discussion to keep relativity in mind), if PvE gear should not be given some degree of debuff in flagged PvP situations after Bolstering can not be used anymore? Thoughts? Ideas? Yes? No? Maybe?

    Edit: I'll try to keep my fingers off my keyboard and not, myself, keep posting in this thread. It's very hard, but I'll try! I want to know the opinion of others.
    Last edited by Taptap; 06-21-2012 at 09:03 AM.

  2. #2
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    To be honest I would rather see PvP gear being improved to nullify pve advantage in PvP. This is because while I may be a minority, I would like people who do both forms of the game better able to make use of their gear in both situations.

    There is no reason PvP essences cannot be good enough to be used in Pve whilst being a bit inferior overall (mainly due to losing some stats due to having higher endurance than a pve dps essence) meanwhile the pve essence would offer better dps in PvP but at a cost of the survivability. Currently pve essences are so much more powerful that if you have it then losing out on 250 valor is well worth it.

    Armourwise there is little reason why the r50 gear is not of similar quality to pve gear - most players get the armour without even setting foot in ID just by grinding dailies, so claiming it's harder to get the gear is nonsense. Meanwhile it means that a pvper can get involved in pve and actually contribute to his guilds efforts (true he still takes a stat loss by needing to use helm and gloves with hit but that in itself is a penalty, no need to make it worse by making the gear lousy).

    synergy crystal wise either he PvP one needs to be improved or the pve one not usable, or even have the PvP armour count towards the pve crystal set, you could also make the high end pve gear count towards the PvP crystal set though I doubt any would care.

    The weapons need to be adjusted to ensure they are as good as the relics in PvP without being as good in pve. Vengeance and more valor would be the only way to do this but until vengeance becomes any good this is not much or a solution.

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    I think people die plenty fast in warfronts as it is, so rather than bumping the stats on pvp weapons/crystals, I would much rather see pve weapons/crystals be handicapped or barred from warfronts.

    The +Hit in 1.9 should help matters somewhat in regards to weapons.

    Once we have the top-tier pvp gear, the pve gear isn't hugely helpful (at least to us warriors). The cost to survivability makes it not worth it unless we are running with a pocket healer. The weapon is another story.

    In fact, pve gear helps level the playing field for the lower ranks competing with the R40's (assuming they have good pve gear) so I am okay with pve gear in warfronts.

    I would like to see top-tier pve crystals have a valor/vengeance handicap, or be barred from warfronts.

  4. #4
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    In theory the extra valor added to PvP weapons would serve to counter the impact of the increased stats so would prevent damage becoming worse unless of course you were using a pve relic.

    Atm rank in PvP is meaningless for many because all it does is allow you to use weapons which can more easily be attained in pve in most circumstances. If the weapons had a more significant impact then ranks would be more relevant.

    All in all I like pve gear in waterfront but that is because I think the game should encourage cross form play. The problem is it remains onesided and will continue to be so if trion always react to pvers who hate to see decent gear obtained differently to their way
    Last edited by Asteldian; 06-21-2012 at 09:55 AM.

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    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taptap View Post
    I'm more interested in discussing the pro's and con's, meaning I'm not calling for a nerf. But I'm wondering if there aren't situations in flagged PvP where PvE items grant so much damage advantage and thus give quick kills unfairly, despite how much Valor someone else has and if otherwise equally ranked and geared (important to the discussion to keep relativity in mind), if PvE gear should not be given some degree of debuff in flagged PvP situations after Bolstering can not be used anymore? Thoughts? Ideas? Yes? No? Maybe?

    Edit: I'll try to keep my fingers off my keyboard and not, myself, keep posting in this thread. It's very hard, but I'll try! I want to know the opinion of others.

    Or instead of creating some obscure algorithm they could actually I don't know...make pvp gear best in pvp and make pve gear best in pve. I just don't get it, if my bread and butter and career to boot was to design Rift and not post on the forums in my spare time - and my job was to dedicate my thought and ideas to solving these things and coming up with solutions...I'd do better than this. This is like the quality I did on my school work when I'd rather have played video games. It's passable but flawed to hell and anyone who took precious time and consideration would probably iron out the flaws and create solutions. But...I didn't bother to do that when I didn't care about my work.
    Last edited by Violacea; 06-21-2012 at 10:06 AM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Or instead of creating some obscure algorithm they could actually I don't know...make pvp gear best in pvp and make pve gear best in pve. I just don't get it, if my bread and butter and career to boot was to design Rift and not post on the forums in my spare time - and my job was to dedicate my thought and ideas to solving these things and coming up with solutions...I'd do better than this. This is like the quality I did on my school work when I'd rather have played video games. It's passable but flawed to hell and anyone who took precious time and consideration would probably iron out the flaws and create solutions. But...I didn't bother to do that when I didn't care about my work.
    You ought to get into the business. You could get rid of games that contained those pesky algorithms and whip out a game that wasn't "passable but flawed to hell" in no time.
    Last edited by dpser; 06-21-2012 at 10:19 AM.

  7. #7
    Champion of Telara Arcshayde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Or instead of creating some obscure algorithm they could actually I don't know...make pvp gear best in pvp and make pve gear best in pve. I just don't get it, if my bread and butter and career to boot was to design Rift and not post on the forums in my spare time - and my job was to dedicate my thought and ideas to solving these things and coming up with solutions...I'd do better than this. This is like the quality I did on my school work when I'd rather have played video games. It's passable but flawed to hell and anyone who took precious time and consideration would probably iron out the flaws and create solutions. But...I didn't bother to do that when I didn't care about my work.
    There's a lot of the same devs that worked on Warhammer, which did some things right in terms of gear itemization. Players dropped marks to purchase gear and you kept trading in your pvp gear for upgrades. Eventually you could get relic weapons. PvP gear had set bonuses that you could mix and match between gear sets and you could even trade pieces in for their equivalent version. The PvP gear was bis for PvP, it was worth wearing over PvE gear even though PvE gear had some great stuff too.

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    Since hit will be a moot point soon, the advantages that pve equips have are: Synergy Crystals that give/improve abilities and weapon procs.

    I would say extra stats, but i think, personally, as a cleric, the defensive stats i get on my pvp weaponry and armour is a good balance between the offensive stats i get on my pve stats. Which is why i would never wear pve crap to heal and its a toss for me personally whether i wear my pve set as a dps.

    When those two points are considered in PVP, then there would be no reason to use PvE armour except for straight offensive properties, which comes with a hefty defensive penalty.

    Allow PvP synergy crystals give procs/boost the same way pve ones do, you can restrict them to PvP (which, would still be unfair imo but we have to pick and choose our battles sometimes) or make them more beneficial for pvp (i.e causes X to do y% more damage on PCs) and allow pvp weapons to have weapon procs (hint hint, instead constantly increasing stats every rank, new tiers would have different weapon procs, maybe armour procs?) and the disparity between pve and pvp items will be nullified.

    You can throw trinkets into the mix as well.


    Because in 1.9, there will be a staff that heals 5 people on proc, coupled with a trinket that heals 3 people on proc, and we have an OP advantage pvers have over PvPers. Which is ******** quite honestly.
    Last edited by Eughe; 06-21-2012 at 11:13 AM.

  9. #9
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    Synergy crystal, procs from weapons and higher DPS/stat weapons are the advantages. Plus PvE essences and Trinkets. While some classes/builds may get less advantage from certain items, others get a big advantage.

    the small valor on the PvP weapons is nothing compared to extra DPS from PvE relic or even possibly extra Hit the weapon offers (for example with PvE weapon Hit you don't need to rune your helm with Hit which means you can get the Valor rune). Meanwhile in many instances the extra 250 Valor from PvP sigil does not make up for the MASSIVE loss of crit/AP of a PvE sigil, or SPell Power for that matter. Some clerics prefer the Valor but others prefer the extra healing power the SP offers.
    Last edited by Asteldian; 06-21-2012 at 12:11 PM.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpser View Post
    You ought to get into the business. You could get rid of games that contained those pesky algorithms and whip out a game that wasn't "passable but flawed to hell" in no time.
    I really wish I could. Lots of business I look at all I see is what could be done better. My college loved it when I wrote an article for their school newspaper outlining how terribly flawed their online test taking system was. Got passed around up to the Dean of the school and a few ethics teachers used the paper to discuss ethics based around cheating an already flawed system or which degree to accept the flaws to. Fixing bad ideas with decent solutions is what I do. Of course, I choose to write this while everyone was doing boring "typical news' articles. And that is the reason games are boring. People do things safely and by the book. If you don't make any bold steps you won't risk losing masses of players but you'll never get a mass following either. Rift needs bold and fresh ideas that don't suck. Just take WF/pvp objectives. Glad some guy in the think tank thought

    - hey, stockpile would be a fun new mod if we make them pick up balls and run to clickies
    - hey, pvp rifts would be cool if we make them pick up crystals and run to pads
    - hey, port scion would be cool if we have half the objective focused around picking up crystals and running them to a boss
    - hey, black garden, lets have everyone pick up a crystal and hold it

    My god, I am getting bored just typing these ideas out back to back. The thing is, Rift is a decent game. But if you ask me they are scared to do something bold that other games don't do or haven't tried yet. They have the soul system and mixing of souls - that is pretty cool and unique and I will give it that. But that was the games premise and initial obscure lure. The rest after that has been quite typical fashion MMO stuff. The game is fun but, if you don't take risks you'll never soar or drop. I'd rather take the risk to soar. Cause those are the games people fall utterly in love with and talk about for the rest of their gaming lives.


    Quote Originally Posted by Arcshayde View Post
    There's a lot of the same devs that worked on Warhammer, which did some things right in terms of gear itemization. Players dropped marks to purchase gear and you kept trading in your pvp gear for upgrades. Eventually you could get relic weapons. PvP gear had set bonuses that you could mix and match between gear sets and you could even trade pieces in for their equivalent version. The PvP gear was bis for PvP, it was worth wearing over PvE gear even though PvE gear had some great stuff too.

    I feel like they can but aren't. I also realize a dev can't just run around mad scientist style creating the game as he sees fit. So while I do think they aren't bold enough sometimes and there are flaws, sometimes I wonder if the people higher on the totem pole pretty much bottleneck the devs into limited decisions. For all I know a dev thinks pvp should have relics and ball out of control like PvE gear - but maybe he just doesn't have the power to do that.
    Last edited by Violacea; 06-21-2012 at 12:24 PM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  11. #11
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    So over these boards. First I couldn't post a reply with a quote in it no matter what, now I can't edit my post no matter what. I'll let the readers figure out all my bad grammar and where I meant to put words. I'm over trying to get the edit button to let me.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  12. #12
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    I think they need to add negative valor and negative vengeance to higher tiered pve items.
    Codex + 1 = Suck on a Gun

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    The game is fun but, if you don't take risks you'll never soar or drop. I'd rather take the risk to soar. Cause those are the games people fall utterly in love with and talk about for the rest of their gaming lives.
    Idealistically, I am with you. Taking the risk to soar, though, is...... risky. What MMO's have soared? Depends if we are talking financially or artistically, I suppose.

    I have never played another MMO before, so I can't compare if Rift soars in comparison or not. I do like it, though, flaws and all.

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