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Thread: Adjustments to rogue Sabs.

  1. #1
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    Default Adjustments to rogue Sabs.

    We have been playing around on a rogue Sab with the four piece pve synergy crystal and propose the following changes:

    1). All rogue sab damage is reduced by 20% against other players.
    2). Remove the stun completely. The damage is to high even after a 20% nerf.
    3). Add more stringent diminishing returns on all forms of rogue sab CC.

    Rogue sabs have been ruining quality pvp for the last few weeks and it needs to stop. We have enjoyed pvp since 1.7 and qued for warfronts every night and weekend but the negative impact of rogue sabs on team based play and coordinated pvp is so awful we have stopped queing entirely. We just do the daily for experience and stop. Pleat fix this and let the player base enjoy pvp again.

    Please Note: this is not a thread about warriors nor was a particular player mentioned in this post. Keep it civil and on topic.

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    Sword of Telara Wawer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    We have been playing around on a rogue Sab with the four piece pve synergy crystal and propose the following changes:

    1). All rogue sab damage is reduced by 20% against other players.
    2). Remove the stun completely. The damage is to high even after a 20% nerf.
    3). Add more stringent diminishing returns on all forms of rogue sab CC.

    Rogue sabs have been ruining quality pvp for the last few weeks and it needs to stop. We have enjoyed pvp since 1.7 and qued for warfronts every night and weekend but the negative impact of rogue sabs on team based play and coordinated pvp is so awful we have stopped queing entirely. We just do the daily for experience and stop. Pleat fix this and let the player base enjoy pvp again.

    Please Note: this is not a thread about warriors nor was a particular player mentioned in this post. Keep it civil and on topic.
    That a bit too much. How about this
    1)Do not allow PvE gear in PvP .
    2)At least don't allow the PvE crystal in PvP
    3)Carpet bombing don't work on stun/silence bomb.
    Last edited by Wawer; 06-21-2012 at 06:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wawer View Post
    That a bit too much. How about this
    1)Do not allow PvE gear in PvP .
    2)At least don't allow the PvE crystal in PvP
    That is an excellent point. The only problem is how does Trion manage world pvp. I could see disabling in a warfront. How about create a debuff that counteracts the positive impact form the crystal againist other players.

    It is a very good idea though. Regardless, I believe the CC would have to be adjusted.

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    Just give PvP their own server and disallow open world PvP on PvE servers. All transfers to and from this server must be zero Plat and naked, except for the initial populating of the server.

    You get your own playground and balancing PvP stops interfering with PvE and vice versa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    We have been playing around on a rogue Sab with the four piece pve synergy crystal and propose the following changes:

    1). All rogue sab damage is reduced by 20% against other players.
    You're basing this off the crystal bonus, I personally run in full PvP except for the gun as sab. If people want to run 4 piece, then they die much faster as well. Also, you're blanket nerfing their single target stuff as well.

    2). Remove the stun completely. The damage is to high even after a 20% nerf.
    Pretty sure the stun is on DR, any aoe class can't really be blamed if people like to clump up to begin with. Read: People in Library in particular, with the runes, stacking on top of other people with runes. :\ Besides, the stun is really only noticeable if your pug group only has like 1 healer.

    3). Add more stringent diminishing returns on all forms of rogue sab CC.
    The only other CC's that a sab has is the ground targetted AoE CC, which can be moved out of (and back into) which probably puts you on DR really fast if you intentionally do it. This type of CC however, is not "time based" CC, it lasts as long as you are in the affected area (like Arresting Presence I believe). However, if you turn immune due to DR, then you can walk into these areas unaffected.

    Rogue sabs have been ruining quality pvp for the last few weeks and it needs to stop. We have enjoyed pvp since 1.7 and qued for warfronts every night and weekend but the negative impact of rogue sabs on team based play and coordinated pvp is so awful we have stopped queing entirely. We just do the daily for experience and stop. Pleat fix this and let the player base enjoy pvp again.

    Please Note: this is not a thread about warriors nor was a particular player mentioned in this post. Keep it civil and on topic.
    Sab is more or less just going through the popular trend (like Cabalist and Stormcaller back in the day), just like Rift Storm users today. Like any other AoEs, one sab alone is not going to make/break a game unless your pug group is lacking a healer (not as common as people think), or the sab is high rank/geared vs. a bunch of low rank/geared people (more likely).

    The thing that does hurt is when multiple AoE capable classes use their stuff at the same time. A couple weeks back, me (running sab) and my friend running the SC/Pyro spec in Scion cleared the bridge pretty fast when we unloaded our AoE at the same time (I'm pretty sure there was probably a handful of others chipping in too, don't remember).
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    Good points. I think the damage issue would be solved if they disabled the effect of pve synergy crystal. There is an issue with the stun. If there is a dr it is not working as intended. Part if the issue is that it is a AOE stun that effects 10 people. So it not only stuns the target but also the healer on the target. It really needs to be adjusted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    That is an excellent point. The only problem is how does Trion manage world pvp. I could see disabling in a warfront. How about create a debuff that counteracts the positive impact form the crystal againist other players.

    It is a very good idea though. Regardless, I believe the CC would have to be adjusted.
    So your saying fresh 50s and even before 50 bracket, players should wear what in warfronts? No armor? Not really a good point to be honest, alot more issues aside from world pvp...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    We have been playing around on a rogue Sab with the four piece pve synergy crystal and propose the following changes:

    1). All rogue sab damage is reduced by 20% against other players.
    2). Remove the stun completely. The damage is to high even after a 20% nerf.
    3). Add more stringent diminishing returns on all forms of rogue sab CC.

    Rogue sabs have been ruining quality pvp for the last few weeks and it needs to stop. We have enjoyed pvp since 1.7 and qued for warfronts every night and weekend but the negative impact of rogue sabs on team based play and coordinated pvp is so awful we have stopped queing entirely. We just do the daily for experience and stop. Pleat fix this and let the player base enjoy pvp again.

    Please Note: this is not a thread about warriors nor was a particular player mentioned in this post. Keep it civil and on topic.

    This is why you are bad at making decisions for games.

    If a set bonus makes a class overly powerful for christ sakes you don't nerf the class to compensate to fit the bonus. You nerf the bonus to fit the class. You don't spec into a 4 set HK bonus, you spec into a Sab. You balance the bonuses the sab gets to not overpower the soul, not balance the soul based around having a external bonus. 2 of those changes (#2 gets a 1/2 point) have pretty much nothing to do with the damage they do, which was the premise of your complaints.
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    Not much to do in this game after getting locked to instances other than pvp. I hope Trion addresses this issue soon and fixes rogue sabs. We want a challenge in pvp. The current pvp environment is horrible with rogue sabs in there current state.

    We get it. Some people get upset when someone posts something you don't like to read. Now please post on topic and stop making personal attacks.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Could always target Sabs in your free time, that will kill an extra 6 seconds.
    Last edited by Violacea; 06-21-2012 at 08:30 AM.
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    The idea is to assume all rogue sabs will use the crystal. In the event Trion cannot adjust the crystal (for whatever reason) you have to assume it will be used and balance the class accordingly. We really don't care as long as pvp can become enjoyable again through a nerf to the rogue sab soul.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    The idea is to assume all rogue sabs will use the crystal.
    The idea is not good at all for game balance and is a terrible premise to begin it on. You are talking about HK 4pc bonus balance. Not sab balance. Assume they don't adjust the crystal and adjust the class for it? Suggesting game concept and balance is not your gig, sorry. The premise you begin them on is as faulty as the information that comes after it, even if the premise was acceptable.
    Last edited by Violacea; 06-21-2012 at 08:38 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    There is an issue with the stun.
    No, there isn't, this is the 5th time I have told you, and Celestaras has also said it as well.
    It acts like AP, it lasts as long as you stand in it.

    Working as intended.

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    for pvp a fun adjustment could be to tone down their thrown explosives slightly but increase trap damage. The thing about traps is ppl really can't complain about high burst in them as much because it always has the tradeoff of being an environmental awareness check. IDK, I still haven't seen sabo feel too op in matches though, although I do hear reports from ppl indirectly.....

    I like to think of aoe classes as more of a suppression fire class, aside from killing potential, there's a lot to be said for putting pressure on another team's healing so they have to divert focus and using aoe to break up team formations so that groups can be isolated for your team to attack.
    Last edited by Inixia; 06-21-2012 at 08:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    The idea is to assume all rogue sabs will use the crystal.
    Making a change that ends up further pushing (I won't quite say necessitating) the use of PvE crystals in PvP is a highly questionable design decision. For any class, period.

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