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Thread: Solution to PVE gear in PVP.

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    Telaran Izraels queso's Avatar
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    Default Solution to PVE gear in PVP.

    So I was reading the usual QQ posts on the forums, you know the warrior QQ threads and Sab QQ threads. While I was reading a thread I got a great idea on a solution to the PVE gear being BiS for PVP.

    So I basically thought, why not make it so having PVP synergy crystal bonus go up to a 9 slot bonus plus a 2/3 piece weapon bonus?(2 piece weapon bonus for 2 hander + ranged 3 for one hand/off-hand + ranged) So you would get from it
    • 2 piece bonus: XXX health
    • 4 piece bonus: XXX vengeance/sp/ap
    • 8 piece bonus: XX hit/focus
    **NOTE THESE BONUSES ONLY WORK IN PVP COMBAT**
    • 9 piece bonus: *Special Class ability*
      Rogues: Increases damage done to players by 8% and Increases energy regen by X energy per second.
      Warriors: Decreases damage taken by 5% and increases healing taken by 5%.
      Mages: Decreases damage taken by 5% and being attacked has a chance to apply a shield that absorbs 100% of damage taken for up to 5% of the mages total health. (5 second internal cooldown.)
      Cleric: Decreases damage taken by 5% and Increases movement speed by 5%.
    Weapon piece bonus. **REQUIRES ALL WEAPON SLOTS TO BE FILLED WITH PVP WEAPONS**
    • Rogue: Gives the rogue a 20% chance to do XXX damage.
    • Warrior: Gives the warrior a 30% chance to root the target for 3 seconds.(Ability not affected by global cooldown, ability will not proc within 6 seconds of using Riftwalk.)
    • Mage: Gives the mage a 10% chance to duplicate a spell. (Regardless of type, meaning healing damage or even a Cooldown.)
    • Cleric: Gives the cleric a 10% chance on a damaging ability to stun the target for 2 seconds. Also gives the cleric a 30% chance to heal the cleric for XXX after using a healing spell. (Reduced proc rate from Healing over Time abilities.)

    So thats that. This would make it so PVP gear would be BIS or maybe close too it for PVP.

    Discuss in the thread below or suggest ideas for the 8th 9th and weapon piece bonus abilites from the synergy crystal. To clarify for the weapon piece bonus you would need ALL possible weapon slots filled with pvp weapons, so for instance 2 hander one handed/ off-hand and ranged.

    Seriously though let me know what you guys think and if you think you have a better idea for a proc or proc rate then post it so a dev can see it.



    Edit: This would also help with the poor itemization on PVP gear.
    Last edited by Izraels queso; 06-19-2012 at 02:00 PM.
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    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izraels queso View Post
    So I was reading the usual QQ posts on the forums, you know the warrior QQ threads and Sab QQ threads. While I was reading a thread I got a great idea on a solution to the PVE gear being BiS for PVP.

    So I basically thought, why not make it so having PVP synergy crystal bonus go up to a 9 slot bonus plus a 2/3 piece weapon bonus?(2 piece weapon bonus for 2 hander + ranged 3 for one hand/off-hand + ranged) So you would get from it
    • 2 piece bonus: XXX health
    • 4 piece bonus: XXX vengeance/sp/ap
    • 8 piece bonus: XX hit/focus
    **NOTE THESE BONUSES ONLY WORK IN PVP COMBAT**
    • 9 piece bonus: *Special Class ability*
      Rogues: Increases damage done to players by 8% and Increases energy regen by X energy per second.
      Warriors: Decreases damage taken by 5% and increases healing taken by 5%.
      Mages: Decreases damage taken by 5% and being attacked has a chance to apply a shield that absorbs 100% of damage taken for up to 5% of the mages total health. (5 second internal cooldown.)
      Cleric: Decreases damage taken by 5% and Increases movement speed by 5%.
    Weapon piece bonus. **REQUIRES ALL WEAPON SLOTS TO BE FILLED WITH PVP WEAPONS**
    • Rogue: Gives the rogue a 20% chance to do XXX damage.
    • Warrior: Gives the warrior a 30% chance to root the target for 3 seconds.(Ability not affected by global cooldown, ability will not proc within 6 seconds of using Riftwalk.)
    • Mage: Gives the mage a 10% chance to duplicate a spell. (Regardless of type, meaning healing damage or even a Cooldown.)
    • Cleric: Gives the cleric a 10% chance on a damaging ability to stun the target for 2 seconds. Also gives the cleric a 30% chance to heal the cleric for XXX after using a healing spell. (Reduced proc rate from Healing over Time abilities.)

    So thats that. This would make it so PVP gear would be BIS or maybe close too it for PVP.

    Discuss in the thread below or suggest ideas for the 8th 9th and weapon piece bonus abilites from the synergy crystal. To clarify for the weapon piece bonus you would need ALL possible weapon slots filled with pvp weapons, so for instance 2 hander one handed/ off-hand and ranged.

    Seriously though let me know what you guys think and if you think you have a better idea for a proc or proc rate then post it so a dev can see it.



    Edit: This would also help with the poor itemization on PVP gear.
    I like where you are going with this but I do not fully agree with everything. Things like this should be on relic pvp gear AFTER we get more challenging content or if they decide to let faction bosses from the major cities (sanctum and meridian) drop gear.

    I'd say rated pvp would be the best route to take for more balanced and more challenging game play for max ranked and geared players who strive to have the pvp relic gear.

  3. #3
    Telaran Izraels queso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HannonHellbringer View Post
    I like where you are going with this but I do not fully agree with everything. Things like this should be on relic pvp gear AFTER we get more challenging content or if they decide to let faction bosses from the major cities (sanctum and meridian) drop gear.

    I'd say rated pvp would be the best route to take for more balanced and more challenging game play for max ranked and geared players who strive to have the pvp relic gear.
    I've read your thread on rated pvp and think that giving the best pvp'ers (at that time) the best gear would be bad. I do agree that Relic PvP gear does eventually need to be introduced, and that it should have some standard of attaining it. But I don't want to have Stalin come from playing Aion only to quit because Hitler has all the Relics.(lol if you get the reference.) Also I do agree that there needs to be some form of competitive PvP that has ratings and gives fluff rewards, I made a post about a Skirmish mode like a week ago, I don't think the thread got very far.
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    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Honestly, a much simpler way to do this would be to make Vengeance worth a damn. Instead of a washed-up version of SP or AP, it should function as an additive % increase to the healing you receive, or something along those lines. As it is, Vengeance was made to make PVP gear unappealing in PVE. It did that, but it should also do something to make PVE gear unappealing in PVP, which would involve making Vengeance a desirable stat.

    That's not knocking your suggestions though, I really wish our synergy crystals were more than just static stats. Having PVP-based procs, or PVP-based set effects would be awesome.
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    Telaran Izraels queso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    Honestly, a much simpler way to do this would be to make Vengeance worth a damn. Instead of a washed-up version of SP or AP, it should function as an additive % increase to the healing you receive, or something along those lines. As it is, Vengeance was made to make PVP gear unappealing in PVE. It did that, but it should also do something to make PVE gear unappealing in PVP, which would involve making Vengeance a desirable stat.

    That's not knocking your suggestions though, I really wish our synergy crystals were more than just static stats. Having PVP-based procs, or PVP-based set effects would be awesome.
    We could solve some issues by adding procs to synergy crystals. Also I agree that vengeance should be identical to AP/SP in how it affects damage and it should scale from AP/SP modifiers like the 15% from RS.
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    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    The bestest solution is to completely split the two facets of the game (at least for instanced PvP/PvE).

    I don't think any of us are clamouring for nerfs to PvE gear, or were clamouring for nerfs to P8 PvP gear being best in slot, based on our performance during a World Event or at PvP rifts.
    Last edited by Kyera; 06-19-2012 at 03:45 PM.
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    Ascendant Ajax1114's Avatar
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    I like the concept. I confess I did not read it thoroughly, so I may be missing something. It may be over-complicating an already complex system though.

    I thought of a concept a few days ago involving synergy crystals and valor but the idea defeated itself in my own mind before I could justify posting it. The problem, as I can see it, is that anything involving synergy crystals must require a full set of PvP gear for the bonuses, or else you get situations where people are still stacking PvE pieces with PvP gear for extra benefit.

    Granted, that looks to be part of what you're doing here. But the bonuses from 9 pieces equipped would need to be unequivocally better than what PvE synergy crystals offer. You also run into the problem where someone transitioning through gear levels loses out on big bonuses just by changing out one piece. For a synergy-crystal-related fix to work, I think the PvP synergy crystals would need to effectively become one crystal that activates for all PvP gear sets and put more of the "level-based" bonuses on the actual gear in the form of stats like vengeance.

    It's all so very messy. Sometimes my head hurts just thinking about it.

    The system so desperately needs a reset. (Cue Storm Legion.) I'm going to be sadface if Trion resets the system with increased level cap and then makes the same mistakes twice, though.
    Last edited by Ajax1114; 06-19-2012 at 03:49 PM.

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    Telaran Izraels queso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax1114 View Post
    I like the concept. I confess I did not read it thoroughly, so I may be missing something. It may be over-complicating an already complex system though.

    I thought of a concept a few days ago involving synergy crystals and valor but the idea defeated itself in my own mind before I could justify posting it. The problem, as I can see it, is that anything involving synergy crystals must require a full set of PvP gear for the bonuses, or else you get situations where people are still stacking PvE pieces with PvP gear for extra benefit.

    Granted, that looks to be part of what you're doing here. But the bonuses from 9 pieces equipped would need to be unequivocally better than what PvE synergy crystals offer. You also run into the problem where someone transitioning through gear levels loses out on big bonuses just by changing out one piece. For a synergy-crystal-related fix to work, I think the PvP synergy crystals would need to effectively become one crystal that activates for all PvP gear sets and put more of the "level-based" bonuses on the actual gear in the form of stats like vengeance.

    It's all so very messy. Sometimes my head hurts just thinking about it.

    The system so desperately needs a reset. (Cue Storm Legion.) I'm going to be sadface if Trion resets the system with increased level cap and then makes the same mistakes twice, though.
    The problem of PVE gear in pvp could be solved easily by adding a stat that only works in PVE. I just thought we could kill like 12 birds with 1 stone, by making pvp gear BIS with the crystals giving bonuses that help the classes in pvp, like improved warrior survivability and better cleric healing etc. Better mage survivability etc.
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    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izraels queso View Post
    I've read your thread on rated pvp and think that giving the best pvp'ers (at that time) the best gear would be bad. I do agree that Relic PvP gear does eventually need to be introduced, and that it should have some standard of attaining it. But I don't want to have Stalin come from playing Aion only to quit because Hitler has all the Relics.(lol if you get the reference.) Also I do agree that there needs to be some form of competitive PvP that has ratings and gives fluff rewards, I made a post about a Skirmish mode like a week ago, I don't think the thread got very far.
    Well, my idea of rated pvp pretty much kept pvp Relic gear locked within the rated pvp bracket. Bringing out of the bracket outside of dueing or showing it off would penalize you by hitting your rating severely. It kept PvP relics BiS for pvp and anyone can shoot for the stars to get it, just had to be max rank andf a die hard additude, not to mention a rated style of pvp would be pretty challenging.

    Anyways, something must be done so we can get that really cool stuff from incredibly hard pvp content. Sacking the faction bosses should drop something but even then you still need Raiders to do it because of the PvE mobs, bosses and crap. The potential is there for good content, there are a lot of great ideas, we just got to work together and stop letting then forget about the pvp comminuty, stop letting raiders determine our content and WE NEED TO STOP FIGHTING EACHOTHER.

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    Telaran Izraels queso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HannonHellbringer View Post
    Well, my idea of rated pvp pretty much kept pvp Relic gear locked within the rated pvp bracket. Bringing out of the bracket outside of dueing or showing it off would penalize you by hitting your rating severely. It kept PvP relics BiS for pvp and anyone can shoot for the stars to get it, just had to be max rank andf a die hard additude, not to mention a rated style of pvp would be pretty challenging.

    Anyways, something must be done so we can get that really cool stuff from incredibly hard pvp content. Sacking the faction bosses should drop something but even then you still need Raiders to do it because of the PvE mobs, bosses and crap. The potential is there for good content, there are a lot of great ideas, we just got to work together and stop letting then forget about the pvp comminuty, stop letting raiders determine our content and WE NEED TO STOP FIGHTING EACHOTHER.
    Your idea for PvP relic weapons did NOT make them BiS for PvP, it made them BiS for your rated mode, however PvP entails the whole of world PvP, Conquest, Warfronts, and duels. Honestly I'd love to have an even playing ground where actual skill is the deciding factor, I want to know I won or lost because of my ability(or lack there of.) to utilize my classes abilities. Not win from some gear crutch.

    There are ways of making incredibly hard pvp content that gives uniquely awesome rewards. You basically said yourself that the PvP relic gear outside of your rated pvp would only essentially be a costume. I mean there are loads of things I could think of that would make PvE'ers jealous that we could get from being top in a rated PvP system, like a dye that made your gear see through like the Nebula mount. Special costume gear that makes you look like a total Bad***. Fluffy could be rewarded through that.

    Also I completely agree that Relic PvP gear NEEDS to happen. But not in a form which limits it from most forms of PvP and not where it can be used as a crutch.
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    I'd rather they went the WAR route (*gasp* I know I said it brb going to wash my mouth out with acid) and have players drop marks that can be spent on relic PvP gear.
    Even free cost too much now

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    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izraels queso View Post
    Your idea for PvP relic weapons did NOT make them BiS for PvP, it made them BiS for your rated mode, however PvP entails the whole of world PvP, Conquest, Warfronts, and duels. Honestly I'd love to have an even playing ground where actual skill is the deciding factor, I want to know I won or lost because of my ability(or lack there of.) to utilize my classes abilities. Not win from some gear crutch.

    There are ways of making incredibly hard pvp content that gives uniquely awesome rewards. You basically said yourself that the PvP relic gear outside of your rated pvp would only essentially be a costume. I mean there are loads of things I could think of that would make PvE'ers jealous that we could get from being top in a rated PvP system, like a dye that made your gear see through like the Nebula mount. Special costume gear that makes you look like a total Bad***. Fluffy could be rewarded through that.

    Also I completely agree that Relic PvP gear NEEDS to happen. But not in a form which limits it from most forms of PvP and not where it can be used as a crutch.
    Removing gear from pvp right now would do more harm than good, lowering the disparity is the best thing and come 1.9, that will happen or be a step closer. Relic gear would be AMAZING!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    Honestly, a much simpler way to do this would be to make Vengeance worth a damn. Instead of a washed-up version of SP or AP, it should function as an additive % increase to the healing you receive, or something along those lines. As it is, Vengeance was made to make PVP gear unappealing in PVE. It did that, but it should also do something to make PVE gear unappealing in PVP, which would involve making Vengeance a desirable stat.

    That's not knocking your suggestions though, I really wish our synergy crystals were more than just static stats. Having PVP-based procs, or PVP-based set effects would be awesome.
    I always said pve gear would be unappealing if you hate to wear a magnitude of it like you do for PvE. Ie. You blow in ID if you don't have 400 hit (I believe). That takes more than 3 weapons, and it takes some other slots too. Based on set bonus requirements and key itemized slots they I never understood why they don't just create a near inverse situation to where you pretty much blow in pvp without pvp gear. They can even make it so you need a strong degree of even starter gear to obtain a unique pvp stat that is make or break (make if you simply use pvp gear) in pvp combat. Just as hit is. If you had to have 3 pvp weapons and a 4 set bonus to not be terrible in pvp based on unique stats and exclusive set bonuses maybe (but mostly the stats), then you solve the problem. It would be like a valor that has a much more sharp and steeper requirement. As in, you *can't* get by without it. Highlights the whole problem. You can't get by in PvE without the right amount of hit. There is no such thing as "the right amount of valor" that makes or breaks your pvp game. Landing abilities ended up being the king deciding factor of lots of gear choice. Just...don't know why they didn't do the same scheme for pvp. You wouldn't see pve weapons and set bonuses if you were damn near terrible without a pvp 4 set bonus and 3 weapons. If normalized, entry level gear could make you viable, just low in potency. Yet that would be a better option than being completely unviable without it.........like pve.
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    Ascendant Oblivion333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    Honestly, a much simpler way to do this would be to make Vengeance worth a damn. Instead of a washed-up version of SP or AP, it should function as an additive % increase to the healing you receive, or something along those lines. As it is, Vengeance was made to make PVP gear unappealing in PVE. It did that, but it should also do something to make PVE gear unappealing in PVP, which would involve making Vengeance a desirable stat.

    That's not knocking your suggestions though, I really wish our synergy crystals were more than just static stats. Having PVP-based procs, or PVP-based set effects would be awesome.
    Oh that's a great idea. Having it as an added healing bonus received makes gear a much more likable but people are not going to like all the healing so hence why they nerfed heals. I don't know anything with heals, players seem to dislike and vote for a nerf.

    The issues is too what is an undesirable stat on this game. Originally, I thought Focus and Hit doesn't do jack with PvP but I'm hearing otherwise. So why not just make Focus and Hit a status that will not go well with PvP since vengeance and valor is really not valuable to PvE. Honestly, if focus and hit is the most likable trait in PvE, then make it unlikable for PvP, and that goes for Valor and Vengeance as well and make it undesirable in PvE.

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    Champion of Telara Arcshayde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    Honestly, a much simpler way to do this would be to make Vengeance worth a damn. Instead of a washed-up version of SP or AP, it should function as an additive % increase to the healing you receive, or something along those lines. As it is, Vengeance was made to make PVP gear unappealing in PVE. It did that, but it should also do something to make PVE gear unappealing in PVP, which would involve making Vengeance a desirable stat.

    That's not knocking your suggestions though, I really wish our synergy crystals were more than just static stats. Having PVP-based procs, or PVP-based set effects would be awesome.
    Trion's primary concern at the time was PvP gear in HK, and like you said they accomplished their goal. It just doesn't seem like PvP gear itemization has been a priority, hopefully something will happen to change this.

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