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Thread: Why (insert class) is not OP, and why you won't see the fixes you want.

  1. #1
    Telaran Nova Dark's Avatar
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    Default Why (insert class) is not OP, and why you won't see the fixes you want.

    I really don't read these PvP forums often. However, now that I've been poking my head in, all I notice are the typical "this class is OP" thread.

    PvP isn't a one-man show. It's about teamwork. In the same manner that you'd have a proper raid/group composition (ie. Tank, DPS, Healer, Support),
    you also need proper pvp composition.
    You don't walk up to Estrode without a healer, purger, and cleanser, and then scream for nerfs when you die in 5 seconds.
    In the same manner, you cannot expect to kill another group of ascended without help.

    Saboteur's, Warlocks, these guys are totally neutered if you have someone behind you running a Silgen clensing build.
    This is the build I've been running in PvP lately. It gives my party spot heals, AoE Radiant Spores, and machinegun cleansing.
    I can Transmogrify, Disarm, Flicker, Silence, Reflect Spells. In this build, as a mage, I can stand toe to toe with warriors and rogues.
    I don't always win a 1 on 1, but that's the point. I can survive long enough for my team to come aid me.

    Just using this unorthodox build in PvP for the last 2 days, I've seen my win % shoot through the roof.
    It's not me running out there and nuking people to death, trying to top the damage parse.
    I barely touch the other team with damaging spells. However, I do royally screw up their damage numbers by keeping them useless.

    Trion isn't shoving out a ton of PvP fixes because they're trying to teach you something...
    They're trying to show you that you're playing wrong.

    When you say "Zomg! I just got hit with an Annihilation bomb for half my health!"
    Trion thinks to themselves "Did you try to cleanse it? It is cleansable."

    When you say "Warrior damage is just stupidly OP!"
    Trion thinks "Did you purge his buffs? They can be purged."

    When you say "I don't want to cleanse! I don't want to purge! I <3 Deeps!!!"
    Trion says "Well there's your problem."

    When you say "TL;DR"
    I say "Well it's not like this thread hasn't been made 100 times before. Have fun getting turned to ash with my cleansing build, nub."

    <3
    Last edited by Nova Dark; 06-19-2012 at 08:34 AM.

  2. #2
    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova Dark View Post
    I really don't read these PvP forums often. However, now that I've been poking my head in, all I notice are the typical "this class is OP" thread.

    PvP isn't a one-man show. It's about teamwork. In the same manner that you'd have a proper raid/group composition (ie. Tank, DPS, Healer, Support),
    you also need proper pvp composition.
    You don't walk up to Estrode without a healer, purger, and cleanser, and then scream for nerfs when you die in 5 seconds.
    In the same manner, you cannot expect to kill another group of ascended without help.

    Saboteur's, Warlocks, these guys are totally neutered if you have someone behind you running a Silgen clensing build.
    This is the build I've been running in PvP lately. It gives my party spot heals, AoE Radiant Spores, and machinegun cleansing.
    I can Transmogrify, Disarm, Flicker, Silence, Reflect Spells. In this build, as a mage, I can stand toe to toe with warriors and rogues.
    I don't always win a 1 on 1, but that's the point. I can survive long enough for my team to come aid me.

    Just using this unorthodox build in PvP for the last 2 days, I've seen my win % shoot through the roof.
    It's not me running out there and nuking people to death, trying to top the damage parse.
    I barely touch the other team with damaging spells. However, I do royally screw up their damage numbers by keeping them useless.

    Trion isn't shoving out a ton of PvP fixes because they're trying to teach you something...
    They're trying to show you that you're playing wrong.

    When you say "Zomg! I just got hit with an Annihilation bomb for half my health!"
    Trion thinks to themselves "Did you try to cleanse it? It is cleansable."

    When you say "Warrior damage is just stupidly OP!"
    Trion thinks "Did you purge his buffs? They can be purged."

    When you say "I don't want to cleanse! I don't want to purge! I <3 Deeps!!!"
    Trion says "Well there's your problem."

    When you say "TL;DR"
    I say "Well it's not like this thread hasn't been made 100 times before. Have fun getting turned to ash with my cleansing build, nub."

    <3
    While I agree with a lot of your sentiment... and I can vouche that a cleanser makes sabo almost worthless, I'd have to add... I think pvp is decent balanced class vs class right now, it's raid gear in pvp that makes it unbalanced imho. A warrior with a scythe, is still going to gib folks inhumanly fast... purged or not. He'lll just take 4gcd instead of 2.

    The funniest thing I see lately though, is all of the rogues going ranger in pvp. :P It's a terrible pvp build... and you're energy starved unless someone is running living energy.
    Laban Rogue <That Guild>. Bad... good? I'm the guy with the gun.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    I think the problem with "lrn2purge" is that you have multiple buffs that need to be purged, but nowhere near enough time to do it.

    The only calling capable of mass purging is rogues with their 44 point marksman spec.
    So while other callings have to wait over a minute to get that planar blade off the warrior, a rogue does it in a mere 2 seconds, while staying at ranged.

    Now one will say "well a MM can just do it for you."
    Unfortunately, not every rogue is running MM, and if there is proper teamwork occurring, surely someone will be keeping that MM busy while your face is smashed in.

  4. #4
    Telaran Nova Dark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    I think the problem with "lrn2purge" is that you have multiple buffs that need to be purged, but nowhere near enough time to do it..

    A very good point. BUT, Although chain purging is tiresome, but it's better than nothing.
    If someone were able to mass purge constantly, that would be game breaking.
    The goal here is to "weaken" the player, not turn him into jello.
    Last edited by Nova Dark; 06-19-2012 at 08:46 AM.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched Snags's Avatar
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    I agree with almost everything you said... I'm a healer and I keep telling that warrior dps, in my opinion, is not that out of wack as people keep screaming. I set a series of debuffs (healing reduction debuffs, stuff like traitorous influence, that otherwise would butcher my mana) to be signaled by a OMGneon sign in my raid frames, so I know there's something I really want to cleanse... I always try to cleanse those off, if I can spare the gcd And I know having someone purging buffs off enemies can be a really HUGE help. That said...


    Quote Originally Posted by Nova Dark View Post

    When you say "Warrior damage is just stupidly OP!"
    Trion thinks "Did you purge his buffs? They can be purged."

    When you say "I don't want to cleanse! I don't want to purge! I <3 Deeps!!!"
    Trion says "Well there's your problem."
    *ahem* I want to point to you Lingering Wounds... which is uncleansable.

    Really, I'd be perfectly happy if it was made cleansable... right now there's no counter whatsoever to it, and it throws off your statement. I'd be happy to cleanse it, really, but I just can't :\

    So, as much as I agree with what you wrote, well... I can't when it comes to warrior, as long as LW is uncleansable. Because that's the thing that makes me want to rage and reach through the screen to strangle every single enemy warrior in the wf, because I know it'll decimate my effort, and there's nothing I can do about it :P

  6. #6
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    I swear to God I'm the only Marksmen in my warfront grouping who eschews the e-peen glory of seeing yellow numbers to purge the **** out of any other MM and anyone trying to dip into our offensive zone.

    Once that task is done, I mop up the kills/deathblows.

    Every time I play bard I see Split Personality up for full duration, I see NB/RS rolling around with impunity nickle and dime-ing some idiot to death because nobody's ripping their buffs off, I see Riftblades chain blinking, and I see warden HoTs stacked like a boss while Fan Out is flying in at many (or often one) targets.

    People are qqing about the "imbalance" of PvP and the new player unfriendly experience, but maybe if new players couldn't go into cheese**** dps builds and try to faceroll to victory, and instead had to play those utility purging/peeling/debuffing classes, the imbalance would dwindle as teamwork became a thing instead of just an abstract Rift PvP concept.
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  7. #7
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova Dark View Post
    A very good point. BUT, Although chain purging is tiresome, but it's better than nothing.
    If someone were able to mass purge constantly, that would be game breaking.
    The goal here is to "weaken" the player, not turn him into jello.
    Rogue marksman can mass purge constantly since it has no CD, and runs on the 1s GCD Rogue's possess.

    The next best purge is on archon, which removes 1 buff at a time, is GTAoE, and is a 2s cast time.

    Purging isn't done simply because it is not viable, and the specs that possess purging, simply are not viable.

    If purging was a more viable strategy, i could certainly agree to the l2purge statement, until then it is just a weak defense that is easily broken.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    doble posted somehow
    Last edited by Aguni; 06-19-2012 at 10:17 AM.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Lies!! This game is balanced around 1v1!
    Also, Annihilation bomb isn't cleansable
    Last edited by Zaros; 06-19-2012 at 10:32 AM.
    ~Quiescent

  10. #10
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laban of C O View Post
    I can vouche that a cleanser
    Whoa there
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  11. #11
    Rift Chaser MannSeastone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova Dark View Post
    I really don't read these PvP forums often. . . nothing is OP if counterable and PvP is about teamwork.
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