Closed Thread
Page 5 of 18 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 15 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 268
Like Tree92Likes

Thread: really bad pvp system

  1. #61
    Shield of Telara Starsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Port Orange, FL
    Posts
    737

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    The PvP system /is/ terrible.

    Unlike most MMOs, in Rift, your level, spec (derived from your ability to Google), gear, time played, and RNG all play a significant role, instead of the game being purely reliant on raw talent.

    This model runs completely contrary to those found in other games, like WoW, DAoC, EVE Online, TOR, WAR, or any number of other smaller MMOs.

    The gear/progression gap is impossible to overcome with skill, unlike those games, where a character fresh to the end game could easily destroy a seasoned veteran who wasn't very good. Gear and all those other elements were NEVER a factor.
    Your assessment here is wrong, this model DOES follow the older MMOs of the EQ formula to a "T" which it is. This is not off the Lineage, Ultima Online, Shadowbane or Dark Age formulas. There are 5 main base formulas that all major MMOs follow and the EQ formula is the most popular and most prevalent. Your assessment of gear not mattering in all those other games is incorrect though. I have played all of those games for a long enough period of time to know gear and level does matter. Only exception is I did not play Dark Age as I was busy in Mechwarrior at the time, a game of real pvp skill unlike Dark Age.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mako482 View Post
    Ignore trolls like this, this is one of the no-lifes who races to the max of everything as soon as possible so they can farm others just coming up. He is the one who on equal ground likely gets his !@# kicked day in day out so his playstyle is to make sure there is never an even fight.

    Everyone knows Rift is gear based and skill plays little factor, anyone who says otherwise is just trying to inflate their ego convincing themselves they actually accomplish something in this game other than grinding longer than the guy next to them.

    There is a reason why Guild Wars 2 is featuring pvp where everyone is on equal footing gear-wise. Hopefully players like this will stay here.

    Skill plays just as much of a factor in Rift as it does in any PVP environment. Gear also plays a part as well, which is the point of an EQ progression model MMO. If you do not like this type of MMO, do not come and say how bad it is, move on to one that suits your playing style better. This MMO is the best ever released in the EQ style of game play. Anyone saying how bad this game is, really is just saying how bad they are at progression based game play. Real pvp is not found in GW2 either, that is just more canned crap with the pvp and pve seperated yet again. Real pvp is when it is owpvp and not all this instanced stuff to begin with anyways. Alos, everyone heals in GW2, rofl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    You and I have been down this road before on the PTS thread so you probably know what I'm gonna say.

    You aren't thinking of the bigger picture yourself. Many people look at just a detail to suit their own arguments but don't try to problem solve. What is the problem? Gear. How do you solve it? You give everyone gear and allow them to progress as they do now. However in a PVP environement you move all those stats up to a central number, its basically upwards gear scaling. This accomplishes two things. It increases TTK allowing for more skill based gameplay, it also allows for meaningful open world pvp but still keeping competitive PVP intact and allowing TRUE skill based gameplay. You solve the problem with PVE gear by making PVP base stats different than PVE stats ensuring they aren't used in PVE.

    Let me break this down. A new 50 player decides he wants to play Library of the Runemasters. When he hits 50 he is given a set of the basic rank pvp gear in the mail. This cache includes gear for any possible spec for his class. He selects his weapons, armors, runes and sigils. All of these items have PVP stats and therefore will be ineffective in PVE. As this new player plays he accumulates favor and he buys new pvp sets. These pvp sets work just like they do now. In your character tab you have a "pvp set" of gear. The current threshold for gear is scaling based on the current top tier of gear +5% (statwise). This will keep moving forward as new tiers are added to be sure people are always scaled up. When you are engaged in open world pvp it automatically flips to this pvp gear set once pvp has been triggered. Afterwards you can go in and flip back to your pve gear.

    So the big question is what is the impetus to level if everyone is the same in PVP? Well I propose a ability gain system from prestige. Similar to what DAOC did. Reduce the number of Prestige Ranks to 10. Each rank up you have a pool of abilities to choose from based on your classes souls. These abilities all have long cooldowns (5+ minutes) so they won't affect the overall outcome of the match but are cool highly useful situational abilities. These abilities would all have a shared cooldown so no matter how many you accumulate you can't become godlike from having to many of them.

    This is not a simple change, but for an expansion this is easily doable and something Trion really needs to move towards for the overall health of the game.
    We get it, any game that does not follow the Dark Age formula is bad for you. Sorry, this is an EQ formula game, go find a Dark Age formula game to play since it is so great. Oh wait, there isn't one out there to play besides Dark Age is there, while almost every MMO follows the EQ formula, got it. Next.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mako482 View Post
    You mentioned Vampiir crap......that is NOT Daoc. The true Daoc most people refer to was pre-ToA. Before ToA Daoc was not at all gear based. Everyone could get the same crafted gear and gems easily with a little money. No need to raid for dozens of hours.

    There was imbalance here and there but not on the grand scale Rift has. Daoc was pvp first, and the classes were balanced solely for pvp.
    But, that is IMPOSSIBLE, Dark Age is "da b3st pvp gam3 3va" according to you guys. How is it that it can have time frames associated with when it is good or bad then? Some one countered all the "Dark Age is best crap" with facts about the game refutting your arguments and now it is given time frames on when it was actually good and what you are demanding from Rift is not even in effect in Dark Age. Got it, bad comparrisons are bad.



    All the Dark Age/Guild Wars 2 people, guess what, go have fun there and stop trying to turn Rift into a game it is not. Major sweeping changes completely redoing the way pvp is here will do nothing but cost them more subs. Show me one game where they turned the pvp system completely upside down that thrived after that change. You will not find one, in fact, as far as I can recall it is has KILLED every game when they have done that. How many times have we heard until CU, ToA, Trammel, etc etc etc game was great. It turned to crap after that!

    So NO, do not completely redo the pvp system in this game, just introduce some OWPVP with objectives. Oh wait, they are already doing that! Great, problem solved!

  2. #62
    Shield of Telara jaal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    693

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    Same.

    Its really sad to me that people think Gear Based Progression is what PVP in a MMO is all about. Sad. What have MMO's come to?
    Its seems to have got the the point where the only people left behind are those that like a system where

    more /played = Better

  3. #63
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    68

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starsong View Post
    Your assessment here is wrong, this model DOES follow the older MMOs of the EQ formula to a "T" which it is. This is not off the Lineage, Ultima Online, Shadowbane or Dark Age formulas. There are 5 main base formulas that all major MMOs follow and the EQ formula is the most popular and most prevalent. Your assessment of gear not mattering in all those other games is incorrect though. I have played all of those games for a long enough period of time to know gear and level does matter. Only exception is I did not play Dark Age as I was busy in Mechwarrior at the time, a game of real pvp skill unlike Dark Age.





    Skill plays just as much of a factor in Rift as it does in any PVP environment. Gear also plays a part as well, which is the point of an EQ progression model MMO. If you do not like this type of MMO, do not come and say how bad it is, move on to one that suits your playing style better. This MMO is the best ever released in the EQ style of game play. Anyone saying how bad this game is, really is just saying how bad they are at progression based game play. Real pvp is not found in GW2 either, that is just more canned crap with the pvp and pve seperated yet again. Real pvp is when it is owpvp and not all this instanced stuff to begin with anyways. Alos, everyone heals in GW2, rofl.



    We get it, any game that does not follow the Dark Age formula is bad for you. Sorry, this is an EQ formula game, go find a Dark Age formula game to play since it is so great. Oh wait, there isn't one out there to play besides Dark Age is there, while almost every MMO follows the EQ formula, got it. Next.



    But, that is IMPOSSIBLE, Dark Age is "da b3st pvp gam3 3va" according to you guys. How is it that it can have time frames associated with when it is good or bad then? Some one countered all the "Dark Age is best crap" with facts about the game refutting your arguments and now it is given time frames on when it was actually good and what you are demanding from Rift is not even in effect in Dark Age. Got it, bad comparrisons are bad.



    All the Dark Age/Guild Wars 2 people, guess what, go have fun there and stop trying to turn Rift into a game it is not. Major sweeping changes completely redoing the way pvp is here will do nothing but cost them more subs. Show me one game where they turned the pvp system completely upside down that thrived after that change. You will not find one, in fact, as far as I can recall it is has KILLED every game when they have done that. How many times have we heard until CU, ToA, Trammel, etc etc etc game was great. It turned to crap after that!

    So NO, do not completely redo the pvp system in this game, just introduce some OWPVP with objectives. Oh wait, they are already doing that! Great, problem solved!
    In short what Starsong is saying is what Trion developers ar saying all the time lately, if you don't like it take the highway and leave..



    Hi everyone,
    We understand and respect that sometimes people will leave the Rift community.
    We thank you for your feedback and wish you the very best.
    We're closing this thread now.If anyone has questions or concerns about this thread closure,
    please feel free to contact us at community@riftgame.com. Thank you!

  4. #64
    Champion Bionitro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    542

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zetans View Post
    when I get hit for 3/4 of my health in one shot, and yet when I unload a 5point combo finsihser and it barely scratches them, yes its gear.

    Its gear that gives them massively more health and dmg.

    I used to really enjoy pvp when Rift came out, i really liked levelling pvp and endgame until the gear cycle got out of hand.

    Gear scaling is nearly exponential....its pretty ******ed. But no, you keep your head up your arse and keep thinking you are skilled rather than geared.......
    And do u think that is fun for us? our high rank is ****ty for us as well..

    If me and a buddy Q he has highest dmg highest KB's and ive done highest healing and highest dmg taken...


    it gets boring after a while... and real pvp ers want a challenge...

    they dont give us arena...



    they give us conquest... it's gonna be so much fun

    (idk wether to write here " NOT" since i havent tested it yet... but I think it's gonna be a zergling mess so ill write " NOT" but im not conviced if they do it like GW2 it could be cool)

    NOT


    Brobey, Cleric Healer, EU.

  5. #65
    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    4,172

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    I played DAOC for 7 years. In those 7 years I played you never had to be templated to be effective. If you thought that you were quite simply, bad. Sorry to say.
    Someone played a Vampiir and thought they were the bee's knees doing it...
    Seriously though I played for 9 years and there was a huge difference between templated and non-templated characters. Granted it was different for each class as to how big that difference was, but it was still a difference.
    Even free cost too much now

  6. #66
    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Credo View Post
    Someone played a Vampiir and thought they were the bee's knees doing it...
    Seriously though I played for 9 years and there was a huge difference between templated and non-templated characters. Granted it was different for each class as to how big that difference was, but it was still a difference.
    This is true but the thing is it was never hard to template toons (except for the ToA failure which they eventually fixed) so new toons or coming back to the game after a break was never hard.
    Gnarlwood - Belladonna - P50 Rogue
    Seastone - Puandro - P24 Mage
    Im here for the PvE, not the unbalanced subpar PvP.
    Just Waiting...

  7. #67
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5,402

    Default

    Vamps were totally OP.

    Of course, so were Paladins. :/

    Nerf Midgard.
    Glaiveheart :: Warrior || Areyk :: Cleric || <Wasted Talent> || Deepwood || Likes Received (1,200)
    Also: Kyerashield :: Warrior || Keirsti :: Rogue || Jariale :: Cleric || Kaliboras :: Mage
    Webmaster for "Do You Even Rift?" || Play Rock Band? Check out the Rock Band: Harmonies Project!

  8. #68
    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    Vamps were totally OP.

    Of course, so were Paladins. :/

    Nerf Midgard.
    Vamps only OP duration was after laby xpack with health myths and before HoT nerf.

    Also all about 2-Handed palys f hybrid
    Gnarlwood - Belladonna - P50 Rogue
    Seastone - Puandro - P24 Mage
    Im here for the PvE, not the unbalanced subpar PvP.
    Just Waiting...

  9. #69
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    7,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jaal View Post
    Its seems to have got the the point where the only people left behind are those that like a system where

    more /played = Better
    Of course you get better the more you play, that's called gaining experience and it's in every game you're ever going to play in your whole life.
    ~Quiescent

  10. #70
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5,402

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Puandro View Post
    Vamps only OP duration was after laby xpack with health myths and before HoT nerf.

    Also all about 2-Handed palys f hybrid
    Oh come on bro, VE and Dem vamps were just as crazy -- it's just nobody noticed/cared/listened to me screaming about it for the longest time (though they become super common right around the time Lavitz started playing a VE vamp and devouring souls).

    I ran 2h for a long time. It was fun, but I eventually had to go back to hybrid or S/B to deal with the amount of terrible stealthers that tried revenge-zerging me for their 1v1 defeats. Also, vamps.
    Last edited by Kyera; 06-19-2012 at 11:42 AM.
    Glaiveheart :: Warrior || Areyk :: Cleric || <Wasted Talent> || Deepwood || Likes Received (1,200)
    Also: Kyerashield :: Warrior || Keirsti :: Rogue || Jariale :: Cleric || Kaliboras :: Mage
    Webmaster for "Do You Even Rift?" || Play Rock Band? Check out the Rock Band: Harmonies Project!

  11. #71
    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    Of course you get better the more you play, that's called gaining experience and it's in every game you're ever going to play in your whole life.
    That should be the only advantage you should have over a new player but when people bring up the idea of making everyone have the same gear in WFs older players start complaining because they need the gear to compete. Just look at what happened when trion made every tier have the same valor. Holy uproar.
    Gnarlwood - Belladonna - P50 Rogue
    Seastone - Puandro - P24 Mage
    Im here for the PvE, not the unbalanced subpar PvP.
    Just Waiting...

  12. #72
    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    4,172

    Default

    I remember taking out an entire group with my Vamp with ease
    It was so out of whack it was sad. It's a shame DAOC hasn't gone f2p or at least something like 5 bucks a month.
    Even free cost too much now

  13. #73
    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,248

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    Oh come on bro, VE and Dem vamps were just as crazy -- it's just nobody noticed/cared/listened to me screaming about it for the longest time (though they become super common right around the time Lavitz started playing a VE vamp and devouring souls).

    I ran 2h for a long time. It was fun, but I eventually had to go back to hybrid or S/B to deal with the amount of terrible stealthers that tried revenge-zerging me for their 1v1 defeats. Also, vamps.
    No idea who lavits was but i ran 45 Dem 33 VE rest pierce for most of my play time. After the pierce line change and mythic ****** diamondback stun low pierce specs stopped being viable sadly. I never found 48 VE vamps an issue either. Than again i was playing a Necro and laughed at vamps even though people told me wtf i was doing on a necro.
    Gnarlwood - Belladonna - P50 Rogue
    Seastone - Puandro - P24 Mage
    Im here for the PvE, not the unbalanced subpar PvP.
    Just Waiting...

  14. #74
    Champion of Telara Puandro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Credo View Post
    I remember taking out an entire group with my Vamp with ease
    It was so out of whack it was sad. It's a shame DAOC hasn't gone f2p or at least something like 5 bucks a month.
    You coukd do that on multiple classes like champ, sorc, reaver, valk ect. If people play bad enough.
    Gnarlwood - Belladonna - P50 Rogue
    Seastone - Puandro - P24 Mage
    Im here for the PvE, not the unbalanced subpar PvP.
    Just Waiting...

  15. #75
    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,142

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Puandro View Post
    That should be the only advantage you should have over a new player but when people bring up the idea of making everyone have the same gear in WFs older players start complaining because they need the gear to compete. Just look at what happened when trion made every tier have the same valor. Holy uproar.
    I think rated pvp for max ranked players would help this out a lot. It gives challenging pvp content but also rewards/penalizes players so you get a better measure of who is good and who is bad especially when the bracket is all max ranked players. Plus it will attrached more max ranked players that wish to progress, pay on a more evenly matched playing field and I say implement pvp relic set through that. Made a thread on it but it seemed unpopular but it was an idea. I've also noticed people want to tke an easy route more than anything, most that complain about gear are not complaining that it is unbalanced but that they do not have the gear and want it given to them. Some do want gear to not be a factor but to do so would be to completely restructure pvp which will most likely cause more harm than good.

Closed Thread
Page 5 of 18 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 15 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts