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Thread: Max rank Rated pvp, good or bad idea?

  1. #1
    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
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    Default Max rank Rated pvp, good or bad idea?

    I've heard this a lot lately, that the reason for crap gear in pvp is because of how easy it is to obtain pvp gear. I also know that PvP is lacking a challenging and very competitive aspect. I've heard this before from a few and it clicked, rated pvp.

    Giving the option to allow max ranked pvpers to queue in a seperate bracket for rating. This rating is based upon time spent in the bracket and based heavily upon the kill/death ratio and player skill such as healing, and other skill based team work. The better you do and the more time you spend in this bracket the higher your rating gets and as a reward you get the chance to earn relic pvp gear. Do badly though and slack off or try to spend to much time in opposing content and your rating will go down as others move up to take your place and of course as a penalty, you lose the pvp relic gear you've earned.

    Why would this be a good idea, I'm sure I'm not looking at this through all aspect so please feel free to chime in. I think it will create a drive for players to shoot for the stars, it will create a highly competitive bracket of mostly equal players who can test their skills vs other skilled players. It will also pull max ranked players out of the lower brackets which will help ease the pain of new players ranking up since there wont be as many max ranked players face rolling lower ranked players. The biggest reason I want this is because it will create a sense of pride in the pvp community, something we can actually work our butts off for and wear this relic gear with pride, to show off to the raiders that Raiding is not the only challenging thing in this game, to wear that gear like a trophy and a sort of badge of honor amoung our pvp community.

    I know some do not like the gear idea in pvp, but removing gear from pvp will in the end only hurt pvpers, and since this will be in a totally different bracket it will not matter so much vs lower ranked players and as stated before, it will even pull the Best of the Best out of the normal queue, the very ones that are able to roll entire teams, the ones that seem to be game changers and purt them in their very own bracket for a cut throat, very competitive and very fun rating system!

    Let me hear what you guys think.

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    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    I would be all for it if this game actually allowed premades. Ranking as it is now would be based on the odds of you matching up with decent players or ID geared players.
    Even free cost too much now

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    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Credo View Post
    I would be all for it if this game actually allowed premades. Ranking as it is now would be based on the odds of you matching up with decent players or ID geared players.
    I think at that pouint it would be expected, you should be trying to do what you can to get yourself in the high ratings, hell I'd expect some good team work, premades and even cut throat game play. Anything to get those ratings except of course abusing bugs and what not.

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    Ascendant Hartzekar's Avatar
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    I'd rather not have something like that where it's neccecary to PvP in the rated bracket in order to do well. I PvP for fun, not to be the best.
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    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartzekar View Post
    I'd rather not have something like that where it's neccecary to PvP in the rated bracket in order to do well. I PvP for fun, not to be the best.
    It would be an option IF you wanted to enter the bracket, not a requirement.

    Also if you like the idea please throw a like on my thread to show your support, I know I'm pretty much saying this everywhere but I think its a great idea.
    Last edited by HannonHellbringer; 06-17-2012 at 11:59 AM.

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    Ascendant Hartzekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HannonHellbringer View Post
    It would be an option IF you wanted to enter the bracket, not a requirement.

    Also if you like the idea please throw a like on my thread to show your support, I know I'm pretty much saying this everywhere but I think its a great idea.
    Well the way I read it is the ystem would give higher ranked players relic PvP weapons, and take them away if they fall down in rating. That's bad.
    Piras@Faeblight
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    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartzekar View Post
    Well the way I read it is the ystem would give higher ranked players relic PvP weapons, and take them away if they fall down in rating. That's bad.
    No its not, its competitive. Right now there is no content hard enough to let pvp have relic gear, having relic gear in regular queue will be bad news so putting up a Best of the Best queue it will be hard, competitive and a way to let pvpers have relic gear of their own. I'm also not just talking a relic weapon, I'm talking a whole set that and be earned in different ratings, and the highest rating will be a set of relic gear or a small percentage of the bracket will have the full set.

    Point is, we need something tough as hell to bring pvp on par with or even harder than Raids and this is it! We can actually have bragging rights with this. Die hards HAVE to keep playing if they want to keep their gear and grogress to more or fear losing it. This is pvp with a penalty, pvp with REAL risk and a REAL gamble. What can be more exciting?
    Last edited by HannonHellbringer; 06-17-2012 at 12:32 PM.

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    Shield of Telara jaal's Avatar
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    Trion are at a bit of a dilema because their PvP is based on a PvE system of progression. the only way to get max ranked PvP gear is to grind 5 warfronts 1000 times so there is no way to make it challenging like you can for PvE gear. only less or more repetitive.

    This is fine (to an extent) while your grinding the gear, but the problem is the only reason you are PvPing is to progress, not to PvP. Then when you are at r40 because the PvP system is based around progression there is nothing left to do, If you PvP you wont get a true sense of challenge because you will be 4 shotting some of the other team. Also while in PvE your progress to face harder content and face a challenge, in PvP you progress to face the same content and have less of a challenge.

    IMO they need to separate the PvP for this progression, make PvE gear not work in WF (many ways to that for example make hit/focus only apply to PvE and then introduce new PvP Hit/focus stat) and base the whole system on one similar you yours, kill/death ratio (also factoring in contribution to game style, how long holding the fang etc). but instead of your reward being better gear (removing progression) you get alternate rewards. Costumes (teirs of PvP gear), Quality of Life Improvements, Alternate gear (with stats shuffled around so you can become more of a glass cannon for example), titles.

    Its quite a radical idea for an MMO, but is the system used in most PvP games. It gives PvP players an endless task to work to thatg means something; a PvP rating. Rather than a 2 month grind to r40 and then nothing but 5 warfronts.

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    Maybe on the pvp servers, but on pve servers I'm not sure there would even be enough max ranked players to make this que at reasonable rate. After recently moving from pvp to pve server for my guild I noticed a LOT of low ranked players in war fronts then there were in the pvp cluster.

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    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaal View Post
    Trion are at a bit of a dilema because their PvP is based on a PvE system of progression. the only way to get max ranked PvP gear is to grind 5 warfronts 1000 times so there is no way to make it challenging like you can for PvE gear. only less or more repetitive.

    This is fine (to an extent) while your grinding the gear, but the problem is the only reason you are PvPing is to progress, not to PvP. Then when you are at r40 because the PvP system is based around progression there is nothing left to do, If you PvP you wont get a true sense of challenge because you will be 4 shotting some of the other team. Also while in PvE your progress to face harder content and face a challenge, in PvP you progress to face the same content and have less of a challenge.

    IMO they need to separate the PvP for this progression, make PvE gear not work in WF (many ways to that for example make hit/focus only apply to PvE and then introduce new PvP Hit/focus stat) and base the whole system on one similar you yours, kill/death ratio (also factoring in contribution to game style, how long holding the fang etc). but instead of your reward being better gear (removing progression) you get alternate rewards. Costumes (teirs of PvP gear), Quality of Life Improvements, Alternate gear (with stats shuffled around so you can become more of a glass cannon for example), titles.

    Its quite a radical idea for an MMO, but is the system used in most PvP games. It gives PvP players an endless task to work to thatg means something; a PvP rating. Rather than a 2 month grind to r40 and then nothing but 5 warfronts.
    Sepperating pvp and pve is bad news. Letting them hop in and join in on the fun in the opposing content is good. Now most raiders using the 4 piece relic gear with synergy crystals most likely won't make it in the rated matches for the simple fact that everyone there will be HIGH on valor and be tough as nails to kill. Plus people want to see a REAL trophy for their success, what better than relic gear is there? Costumes and stuff is for the faint of heart and people want to fight tooth and nail for the prize, Relic gear.

    Now keeping the lower brackets progression low and the gear sub par to raid gear and keeping the disparity VERy low will help the lower brackets, but the die hard bracket should be not for the faint of heart, it should make a new player nervous upon entering. It NEEDS to be rough and tough, but there is always the option of dropping out and going back to conquest and the regular queue.

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    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redrox View Post
    Maybe on the pvp servers, but on pve servers I'm not sure there would even be enough max ranked players to make this que at reasonable rate. After recently moving from pvp to pve server for my guild I noticed a LOT of low ranked players in war fronts then there were in the pvp cluster.
    That won't matter since the queues are cross shard anyways.

  12. #12
    Shield of Telara jaal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HannonHellbringer View Post
    Sepperating pvp and pve is bad news. Letting them hop in and join in on the fun in the opposing content is good. Now most raiders using the 4 piece relic gear with synergy crystals most likely won't make it in the rated matches for the simple fact that everyone there will be HIGH on valor and be tough as nails to kill. Plus people want to see a REAL trophy for their success, what better than relic gear is there? Costumes and stuff is for the faint of heart and people want to fight tooth and nail for the prize, Relic gear.

    Now keeping the lower brackets progression low and the gear sub par to raid gear and keeping the disparity VERy low will help the lower brackets, but the die hard bracket should be not for the faint of heart, it should make a new player nervous upon entering. It NEEDS to be rough and tough, but there is always the option of dropping out and going back to conquest and the regular queue.
    You misunderstood my post. I meant normalise PvP gear (everyone has the same, hence no gear progression) so players are always on par and you progress by getting a higer PvP rating. Then implement your idea of having ranked matches but not based off gear but off PvP rating. It will be the highest skilled section of the game and very rough and ready, but not something you will be able to conquer by getting a better weapon, instead by knowing your class better and being more skilled.

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    Rift Chaser MannSeastone's Avatar
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    Two points:

    - Giving the best PvPers items to make them even better at PvP makes no sense.
    - Rating should use a Trueskill-like system, where the only variables tracked by the system are wins, losses, and quality of opponents.

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    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MannSeastone View Post
    Two points:

    - Giving the best PvPers items to make them even better at PvP makes no sense.
    - Rating should use a Trueskill-like system, where the only variables tracked by the system are wins, losses, and quality of opponents.
    Well i thought of that. giving good pvpers better gear is a bad thing especially vs lower brackets, but setting strict rules and highly competitive ratings can force the player to pretty much only using the relic gear in the max ranked rated que and the full relic set will be given to such a small percentage that it won't be outrageously game changing especially since as you get higher rating you get to earn other relic gear on your way up so the differences won't be so glaring.

    The rating system should be about skill but also about keeping the gear controlled and keeping it, as much as possible, within the confines of this rated bracket. Have time matter is important so that EVERY thing counts, skill, wins, loses, kill/death ration, support, healing, I mean everything.

    This isn't just about gear there is SO much more to it if you just step back and look. Gear is only a piece of the prize, the real reward is have DIFFICULT and COMPETITIVE pvp at the highest rank.

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    Shield of Telara jaal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HannonHellbringer View Post
    Well i thought of that. giving good pvpers better gear is a bad thing especially vs lower brackets, but setting strict rules and highly competitive ratings can force the player to pretty much only using the relic gear in the max ranked rated que and the full relic set will be given to such a small percentage that it won't be outrageously game changing especially since as you get higher rating you get to earn other relic gear on your way up so the differences won't be so glaring.

    The rating system should be about skill but also about keeping the gear controlled and keeping it, as much as possible, within the confines of this rated bracket. Have time matter is important so that EVERY thing counts, skill, wins, loses, kill/death ration, support, healing, I mean everything.

    This isn't just about gear there is SO much more to it if you just step back and look. Gear is only a piece of the prize, the real reward is have DIFFICULT and COMPETITIVE pvp at the highest rank.
    If you want competetive PvP you would remove gear. So your idea is to create a bracket for the BEST PvPers and only if you maintain a certain kill/death ration can you stay in that bracket. But then you want to give the best in that bracket better weapons, now if a new player is getting into that bracket they are coming against players with better weapons than them, how are they meant to stay there? Furthermore the People with relics no longer need skill because they are fighting against less geared players.

    Giving people better gear isnt going to make PvP competetive. Playing with the same gear is. If you still want a gear grind then fine, put all r40's in the same match.

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