+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Is this how MMO PVP is supposed to be?

  1. #1
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    50

    Default Is this how MMO PVP is supposed to be?

    OK, I would love to hear your thoughts on what I believe is an issue in PVP for a lot of people. Many of you talk it up about how many different MMOs you have played over the years as well as having played Rift from beta – Your input would be especially valuable here I think. I do not want to make this about any class so I will bite my tongue and try really hard keep this generic. I come from the FPS world of yesteryear where everyone spawns with the same armor, you make it to a weapon and actually aim it to hit someone – This is a different genre and I get that but wanted to give you a little background from where my question is coming from. I also understand that this is a PVE game that merely has a PVP option – Already saw those flames in several other threads. Lastly for this intro, I do love the complication that we have and my biggest turn on to Rift is fooling around with soul combinations if nothing more than for fun.

    Rift has great development, graphics, audio, storyline, etc. but I do not think that Trion is familiar with the concept of ‘Engineering’. My theory is that even if they are tracking what class does what against the other in PVP it would be impossible to make any sort of balance because we are not just looking at DPS or HPS. Take any generic healer for example: Did that team come out on top because of his team buffs, shields or cleansing? Good question as all of that is not tracked (for us anyway).

    Bottom Line: I think that all of these controlling effects (too many to list) make PVP frustrating for most players. If I had to guess I would say that these were designed for the class while in a PVE setting but they really make balancing out the classes impossible in a PVP environment. Many classes are after boosts in DPS but how can we give it to them when they practically take you out of the game with all their automatic debuffs and controlling spells? I would also guess that most people do not have an issue with getting killed; however, most people are not getting a fair fight. Very rarely is someone just killed – Usually they are feared, silenced, disarmed, zipped up in a bad and turned into a squirrel – ALL AT THE SAME TIME! LOL

    So what happened to doing damage and healing? Why are ‘bags of tricks’ more important to most souls than causing damage or healing? It seems to me that if we just lost most of this then balancing would be much easier, a lot less rage and classes would not get nerfed when they stomp their feet and fear/silence/disarm 20 people at a pop. Have you ever stepped back and realized how many times in a single match that you lose control over your character? Sometimes things get off track or we take things too far – An example of this would be how the simulation genre is dying in computer gaming.

    OK MMO Masters help me out here: Is the PVP in MMO games all like this or is Houdini trying to communicate with us through Rift? Is this the way it is supposed to be or is turning someone into a newt the way to roll? One on one these seem OK but you get 10 or 20 people in an area and this is just ridiculous imo.

    I am so very proud of myself for not mentioning Trion’s children (Mages and Rogues) in this post. LOL

    Waiting to hear your thoughts about this subject and I hope we have a good debate with some laughs and hate as well.

    Rossel

  2. #2
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5,402

    Default

    I'm not exactly sure what the complaint is in this post.

    Is it crowd control? Are you asking of crowd control is an MMO PvP staple? The answer is yes, if that is your question.
    Glaiveheart :: Warrior || Areyk :: Cleric || <Wasted Talent> || Deepwood || Likes Received (1,200)
    Also: Kyerashield :: Warrior || Keirsti :: Rogue || Jariale :: Cleric || Kaliboras :: Mage
    Webmaster for "Do You Even Rift?" || Play Rock Band? Check out the Rock Band: Harmonies Project!

  3. #3
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    I'm not exactly sure what the complaint is in this post.

    Is it crowd control? Are you asking of crowd control is an MMO PvP staple? The answer is yes, if that is your question.
    Oops, sorry, I could have done a better job at asking a question. Are there this many controlling effects in other MMO games that have PVP or are we over the to here?

    Not a compliant but a question to find out if this is how other games of this genre play out.

    For me - I think that we can tone down these mechanics just a bit here in PVP.

    Rossel

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    410

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rossel View Post
    OK, I would love to hear your thoughts on what I believe is an issue in PVP for a lot of people. Many of you talk it up about how many different MMOs you have played over the years as well as having played Rift from beta – Your input would be especially valuable here I think. I do not want to make this about any class so I will bite my tongue and try really hard keep this generic. I come from the FPS world of yesteryear where everyone spawns with the same armor, you make it to a weapon and actually aim it to hit someone – This is a different genre and I get that but wanted to give you a little background from where my question is coming from. I also understand that this is a PVE game that merely has a PVP option – Already saw those flames in several other threads. Lastly for this intro, I do love the complication that we have and my biggest turn on to Rift is fooling around with soul combinations if nothing more than for fun.

    Rift has great development, graphics, audio, storyline, etc. but I do not think that Trion is familiar with the concept of ‘Engineering’. My theory is that even if they are tracking what class does what against the other in PVP it would be impossible to make any sort of balance because we are not just looking at DPS or HPS. Take any generic healer for example: Did that team come out on top because of his team buffs, shields or cleansing? Good question as all of that is not tracked (for us anyway).

    Bottom Line: I think that all of these controlling effects (too many to list) make PVP frustrating for most players. If I had to guess I would say that these were designed for the class while in a PVE setting but they really make balancing out the classes impossible in a PVP environment. Many classes are after boosts in DPS but how can we give it to them when they practically take you out of the game with all their automatic debuffs and controlling spells? I would also guess that most people do not have an issue with getting killed; however, most people are not getting a fair fight. Very rarely is someone just killed – Usually they are feared, silenced, disarmed, zipped up in a bad and turned into a squirrel – ALL AT THE SAME TIME! LOL

    So what happened to doing damage and healing? Why are ‘bags of tricks’ more important to most souls than causing damage or healing? It seems to me that if we just lost most of this then balancing would be much easier, a lot less rage and classes would not get nerfed when they stomp their feet and fear/silence/disarm 20 people at a pop. Have you ever stepped back and realized how many times in a single match that you lose control over your character? Sometimes things get off track or we take things too far – An example of this would be how the simulation genre is dying in computer gaming.

    OK MMO Masters help me out here: Is the PVP in MMO games all like this or is Houdini trying to communicate with us through Rift? Is this the way it is supposed to be or is turning someone into a newt the way to roll? One on one these seem OK but you get 10 or 20 people in an area and this is just ridiculous imo.

    I am so very proud of myself for not mentioning Trion’s children (Mages and Rogues) in this post. LOL

    Waiting to hear your thoughts about this subject and I hope we have a good debate with some laughs and hate as well.

    Rossel
    PvP in an MMO, expeically one that subscribes to the WoW/Rift gameplay style, is not meant to be just hack n slash. It's dynamic, with many factors affecting outcomes, from class to specific build, to team composition, to movement, to awareness of the battlefield's "physical" surroundings to awareness of what buffs/abilities your opponent(s) have used (and thusly what they have yet to use), to gear customization, to knowledge of class mechanics, to knowledge of pvp tactics (peeling, losing, scrubbing, forced trinks, etc) and to "moving the field".

    It's why having an arena-style pvp system in place is so perfect for these types of games...it allows for all of this to happen at the top level of play, among those who have mastered it all.
    Unrated -- Now show me on this doll where the mean rogue touched you.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    5,402

    Default

    I would say Rift doesn't struck me as having particularly more or less CC in play than other MMORPGs. People certainly do seem to use it in a far more spastic manner, and the immunity timers are shorter, so you might get 'hit' by more, but I don't think it's off the curve.
    Glaiveheart :: Warrior || Areyk :: Cleric || <Wasted Talent> || Deepwood || Likes Received (1,200)
    Also: Kyerashield :: Warrior || Keirsti :: Rogue || Jariale :: Cleric || Kaliboras :: Mage
    Webmaster for "Do You Even Rift?" || Play Rock Band? Check out the Rock Band: Harmonies Project!

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple Gothgirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    142

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rossel View Post
    OK, I would love to hear your thoughts on what I believe is an issue in PVP for a lot of people. Many of you talk it up about how many different MMOs you have played over the years as well as having played Rift from beta – Your input would be especially valuable here I think. I do not want to make this about any class so I will bite my tongue and try really hard keep this generic. I come from the FPS world of yesteryear where everyone spawns with the same armor, you make it to a weapon and actually aim it to hit someone – This is a different genre and I get that but wanted to give you a little background from where my question is coming from. I also understand that this is a PVE game that merely has a PVP option – Already saw those flames in several other threads. Lastly for this intro, I do love the complication that we have and my biggest turn on to Rift is fooling around with soul combinations if nothing more than for fun.

    Rift has great development, graphics, audio, storyline, etc. but I do not think that Trion is familiar with the concept of ‘Engineering’. My theory is that even if they are tracking what class does what against the other in PVP it would be impossible to make any sort of balance because we are not just looking at DPS or HPS. Take any generic healer for example: Did that team come out on top because of his team buffs, shields or cleansing? Good question as all of that is not tracked (for us anyway).

    Bottom Line: I think that all of these controlling effects (too many to list) make PVP frustrating for most players. If I had to guess I would say that these were designed for the class while in a PVE setting but they really make balancing out the classes impossible in a PVP environment. Many classes are after boosts in DPS but how can we give it to them when they practically take you out of the game with all their automatic debuffs and controlling spells? I would also guess that most people do not have an issue with getting killed; however, most people are not getting a fair fight. Very rarely is someone just killed – Usually they are feared, silenced, disarmed, zipped up in a bad and turned into a squirrel – ALL AT THE SAME TIME! LOL

    So what happened to doing damage and healing? Why are ‘bags of tricks’ more important to most souls than causing damage or healing? It seems to me that if we just lost most of this then balancing would be much easier, a lot less rage and classes would not get nerfed when they stomp their feet and fear/silence/disarm 20 people at a pop. Have you ever stepped back and realized how many times in a single match that you lose control over your character? Sometimes things get off track or we take things too far – An example of this would be how the simulation genre is dying in computer gaming.

    OK MMO Masters help me out here: Is the PVP in MMO games all like this or is Houdini trying to communicate with us through Rift? Is this the way it is supposed to be or is turning someone into a newt the way to roll? One on one these seem OK but you get 10 or 20 people in an area and this is just ridiculous imo.

    I am so very proud of myself for not mentioning Trion’s children (Mages and Rogues) in this post. LOL

    Waiting to hear your thoughts about this subject and I hope we have a good debate with some laughs and hate as well.

    Rossel
    Sup bro! yeah dude, it gets frustrating in there sometimes with all the CC. My experience has been that "Every dog has their day". I have absolutely decimated 1 group and have gotten steamrolled by the next. I guess the moral of the story is, those who are dialed in and coordinated enough...end up making a huge difference. Also, spec'ing points in your PA can help but ultimately, if they got a good posse hustled up, unless you got a posse behind you...prepare to get steamrolled.
    GIRLPOWER!!

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    178

    Default

    In a genre all about character progression, there will never be balance.

  8. #8
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,277

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrodude78 View Post
    In a genre all about character progression, there will never be balance.
    In a game where match participants are chosen and placed together at random, there will never be balance. I, for the life of me, can not understand why people believe MMOs exist in some sort of vacuum. Just as any other activity, people possess varying levels of ability and skill. Sometimes staggeringly so. Just head down to your local gym or park and join in on a pick up game of basketball. It will become glaringly obvious that not everyone is equally capable at even such a simple game with the most basic of rules. Why would a computer game be different? The physical component is less significant, but does still exist, whereas the cognitive component is magnified. I suppose it comes down to the fact no one is willing to admit that they are the virtual equivalent of the 5'2" guy with asthma.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts