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Thread: Changes needed for better PvP in Rift.

  1. #1
    Ascendant Menaace's Avatar
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    Default Changes needed for better PvP in Rift.

    1) More Rift subscriptions.
    2) Give cleric healers a slight boost so they can overcome warrior (Rift Blade) damage to a party and themselves
    2a) Give chloro's one more insta-cast heal (I'd say 30 second GCD, single target that heals more than bloom) so they too can keep someone alive through a 3-hit warrior combo
    3) Bring Detaunt back for mages (maybe in the second tier PvP PA) as a counter to Rift storm.
    4) Change nothing else


    Because
    -Mages should get 3 shot by warriors.
    -Sab's should be able to CC a party well, as well as destroy someone quickly with single target damage because they are defenseless otherwise, and their stacks are seen from a mile away and are cleansable!
    -Warriors who are in range should be able to mow things that are unhealed down because that's your fault for being in range, but should not be able to 1v1 a cleric all things being equal

    Reasoning
    A balanced MMO PvP game is one in which any dps class has an equal chance to kill any other and nobody should ever be able to 1v1 a healing cleric with equal skill because then the healer class itself is by definition not able to perform it's job and is underpowered. Time spent macrosmashing should never be how you beat a cleric, you should only win by draining their mana, or teaming up and cc'ing properly. You should be forced to 1.2 - 1.5 v 1 to kill a cleric when you divide your damage by their heals.

    My Resume
    Take it from me, someone who spends more time than just about anyone perfecting 5v5 and warfront team play with, and against the top PvP'rs in the game. Trion you are maybe 90% there. Do not listen to the whiners and complainers who want their class to do the work for them, you are on the right track, DPS is BALANCED. Give us this 10% we ask for and you will see your game actually able to compete with GW2 and you might curb the mass exodus to an acceptable level.

    -GM of one of Rift's largest PvP guilds, and usually floating top 5 in Diamond for /timeplayed PvP.
    Last edited by Menaace; 06-14-2012 at 09:57 AM.
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  2. #2
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    This is an alternative I'd accept to nerfing Warriors. Also, Detaunt should really come back.
    ~Quiescent

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara
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    Except the rift community does want better PvP in RIFT. They want better PvP for their biased opinion about why their class should be the best. Every time I see someone complain about Rift pvp is has nothing to do with how that is powerful in a team enviornment but rather this dude found me solo and owned me nerf it.

    The changes you proposed would help balance team pvp, but I am not sure that is what this community wants or even what the Rift devs want at this point. Time will tell but so far they haven't balanced towards any aspect of pvp other than what people complain the most about on the forums.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Menaace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fates View Post
    Except the rift community does want better PvP in RIFT. They want better PvP for their biased opinion about why their class should be the best. Every time I see someone complain about Rift pvp is has nothing to do with how that is powerful in a team enviornment but rather this dude found me solo and owned me nerf it.

    The changes you proposed would help balance team pvp, but I am not sure that is what this community wants or even what the Rift devs want at this point. Time will tell but so far they haven't balanced towards any aspect of pvp other than what people complain the most about on the forums.
    I will pay you, irl money, if you make a pig cartoon emblem for Menaace!

    /whips out bankroll


    And on a more serious note you make an outstanding point, I completely agreeing with you. Almost all complaints are "fix this because of my class has issues with it because of x,y, and z" I know I've never lobbied for much of anything for mages, we've always been OP with the exception of 1.6 where mm caught up, and 1.8 where now warriors and sabs caught up. I just feel team dynamic like it's second nature. I can tell immediately what's lacking just from my own team's synergy.

    I wish Trion would listen to people who are good at PvP instead of who's most loud on the forums, because there is a reason these folk are considered good: understanding of the game's mechanics better than others is probably the best selling point for their credibility.
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  5. #5
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    Cleric healers need a boost to overcome ranged dps groups focusing firing. Detaunt for mages is a stupid idea. Chloro heals fine. Other then that you are spot one except foe the part that rogue sabs need to be toned down. Most of your suggestions were buffs to your class. Come on dude.

    You are right about Trion being almost there btw. IMO Trion only needs to do two more things:

    1). Nerf Sabo damage and stun. This does not mean destroy the class or soul.
    2). Disable pve synergy crystals.

    Finally, Trion needs to create a warfront bracket for single and dual que players. A full premade needs to only be matched with a premade. Alot if the issues with rift warfront pvp are uneven teams.

    And no Menace... Buffing your class will not help pvp in this game.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    And no Menace... Buffing your class will not help pvp in this game.
    The irony!
    ~Quiescent

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    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    I miss detaunt on clerics, especially with 1.8 healing and damage.

    Then again all these suggestions assume a working DR system.
    Last edited by spaceboots; 06-14-2012 at 11:13 AM.

  8. #8
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    I miss detaunt on clerics, especially with 1.8 healing and damage.

    Then again all these suggestions assume a working DR system.
    Trion believed a 50% debuff of damage of one individual in a wf was to OP (15 seconds uptime with 1 min downtime.) For some reason they thing think a 50% heal debuff is okay though. American gamers generally tend to want lots of things to explode and die, thus they have catered to that dynamic. We all want to be Rambo and do everything without team work. What the media has done to this younger generation has directly impacted how games are designed these days.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Menaace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    Most of your suggestions were buffs to your class. Come on dude.

    IMO Trion only needs to do two more things:

    1). Nerf Sabo damage and stun. This does not mean destroy the class or soul.
    2). Disable pve synergy crystals.

    And no Menace... Buffing your class will not help pvp in this game.
    I think your reading comprehension level is questionable.

    Chloro is not my class, Healing Cleric is not my class, Warriors are not my class, Sabs are not my class.

    "Most?" You meant "zero" right? Ok, just checking... because I'm a pyrolock.



    And I also am not asking for Sab nerfs, you are. Sab's are fine. They are a glass cannon with CC. That's the rogue equivalent of Pyro. They are 100% counterable if you look at your buffs when you PvP.

    This is a team PvP thread, not a wishlist for you to make YOUR class better. Infect some other thread with your "help me overcome". I am asking for two buffs for classes I don't play, and rejecting the random crying of bads yelling for nerfs for two other classes I don't play. I would just suggest you learn to read a little bit better.


    And isn't it you asking for nerfs against people who kill you, and to GEAR... in a PvP thread? /facepalm
    Last edited by Menaace; 06-14-2012 at 11:26 AM.
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    Ascendant Menaace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    The irony!
    Haha I responded to him the same way you did, but with a more detailed and comical insult ;)
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    The irony!
    There is a balance for dps. Mobility and range are more relevant then damage you can do on a stationary dummy. Generally speaking melee needs more burst dps then ranged. This is why I disagreed to a nerf to warriors. I also disagreed with the nerf to clerics because I felt it required coordination to kill them. Now it just takes a few dps attacking at the sametime but this could get fixed with some toning down of ranged dps. To a degree. The problem is that ranged dps coordinating and focus firing is unstoppable. Any adjustments to this would in turn make a single range dps suck which is not fair.

    I am thinking do nothing to cleric healing but add some self shields they can use. So they can pop some shields. You don't want heals to increase. You want a counter to the epic T-bag that is focus fired range dps. They need to add the samething to warriors. The issue with warriors is difftent. It should beva shined that lowers damage taken but also for the same amount lowers damage given.

    Like -50% danage taken but -50% damage done for a short time. Warriors just need a means to maneuver on the battlefield prior to and after damage.

  12. #12
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fates View Post
    Trion believed a 50% debuff of damage of one individual in a wf was to OP (15 seconds uptime with 1 min downtime.) For some reason they thing think a 50% heal debuff is okay though. American gamers generally tend to want lots of things to explode and die, thus they have catered to that dynamic. We all want to be Rambo and do everything without team work. What the media has done to this younger generation has directly impacted how games are designed these days.
    Well they describe their pvp as 'twitch' pvp every chance they get.

    I am guilty to have falling into that dynamic sometimes as well. I find myself getting bored when playing WoW. I am undergeared, but there are times when it just gets boring tickling someone for so long, or sitting in a snare every few seconds.

    With the flack I give GW2, I felt it was a nice middle ground between Rift and WoW's pvp as far as it's damage to defense ratio was overall.


    Maybe 2.0's gear reset will give us more endurance to help balance the pvp damage, hopefully.
    Last edited by spaceboots; 06-14-2012 at 11:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Menaace View Post
    Haha I responded to him the same way you did, but with a more detailed and comical insult ;)
    I have a better pvp resume then you and your ideas will not work. They need to do the following:

    1). Nerf rogue sabs. It is not even up for discussion.
    2). Add another self shield to the cleric pvp PA tree that lowers damage taken and grants CC immunity for a short time.
    3) Add a PA shield to warriors that reduces damage taken by 50% and reduces damage done by 50% for a short period of time.
    4). Disable pve crystals in pvp.

    You want good pvp this is all you need to do.

    Do not buff anything on the Mage class. Do not increase healing in pvp. Do not add detaunt to a dps mage Leave heal debuffs alone.
    Last edited by Majorin; 06-14-2012 at 11:34 AM.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Putting Clerics roughly back to where they were in 1.7 would go a long way. Detaunt coming back would be huge. I'd still just have general issues with the way Mages work, especially in relation to the high off-GCD damage + mobility of RB and the heavy emphasis on Dom. Instead of having to follow a DR timer to time Swift Control spells, it'd be awesome if our 'kiting soul' could actually dish out some damage while standing still so that it's worth being a target that needs to kite.

    On the whole I found 1.7 to be a lot closer to equilibrium in 5v5 than 1.8 is. At this point I don't care much, my Hikos is gone.

  15. #15
    Telaran Crytis's Avatar
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    This needs to happen.

    as a rogue I hope you ignore the complaints about my class. I can kill just fine and I'm < r15 in pve gear(playing an alt currently)

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