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Thread: The Problem with removing Exp Lock

  1. #76
    Champion Cime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MannSeastone View Post
    Up to you, I think we'd only need data from the 10-19 bracket.
    Logged on my 19 few nights ago. Joined queues for warfronts, average wait time had gone from typical 1-2 mins to 10-12 mins - 9-10pm central time. Needless to say I didn't stick around, there's just not much to do with a 19 in b/t waits like that.
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  2. #77
    Plane Touched Xiahoudun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cime View Post
    Logged on my 19 few nights ago. Joined queues for warfronts, average wait time had gone from typical 1-2 mins to 10-12 mins - 9-10pm central time. Needless to say I didn't stick around, there's just not much to do with a 19 in b/t waits like that.
    Because questing and being queued are mutually exclusive?
    Or is everything that isnt an instance or wf just downtime to you?
    "What if it is He, pushing us down with his Noodly Appendages, that causes this force?...And the fact that the Gravitational powers of the Spaghetti Monster haven't been disproven makes it all the more likely to be true."

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  3. #78
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahoudun View Post
    Because questing and being queued are mutually exclusive?
    Or is everything that isnt an instance or wf just downtime to you?
    Some people don't like questing.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by tevikolady View Post
    Blah blah blah.

    With the upcoming 1.9 pacth, low level instant adventures will be introduced. And since people can no longer 'exp lock, the only real option is to level. And so...people will naturally choose the easiest path of advancement. Wait 20 minutes for a PvP queue, or wait 3 secs (roughly) for a IA pop. Again, path of least resistance, people will naturally choose the IA's and hence, less people will queue for low level PvP. After all, its only about progression, correct?? So, PvP = slow exp, and IA's equal fast track exp.

    Blah blah blah.
    Join IA and kill **** while waiting for PvP queue. Or did you think everyone just waited bored in capital while waiting for PvP queues? Low level toons have a ****-ton of things to do between warfronts.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meina View Post
    Yeah, but what happens to the people who are new to MMO's?

    They can pop into safe and secure WF's all during the leveling process and then, WHAM, they hit the wall of gear that is end game. I'm sure it will be a shock to a lot of people, forcing them to quit the game.

    (see what I did there?)




    Between the loss of twinks, who sit in one bracket and will populate a queue for hours at a time, and AI's, which sound like they'll be much more convenient for leveling, I too think low level WF queues are going to escalate. I'm also basing this on the atrocious queue times I experienced before XP locking was introduced.

    But, seeing as my crystal ball is in the shop, we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
    Or they realize that they will have to grind a bit in order to get back to the enjoyable state of PvP they experienced before hitting 50. That is a far cry better than ****ty PvP from the very start, giving them no incentive to ever PvP regardless of bracket.

  6. #81
    Rift Chaser MitsuMarty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    Or they realize that they will have to grind a bit in order to get back to the enjoyable state of PvP they experienced before hitting 50. That is a far cry better than ****ty PvP from the very start, giving them no incentive to ever PvP regardless of bracket.
    Why should the realization of grinding only have to happen at 50? Shouldn't that same instinct or sense of realization happen the moment you notice your sub-par, not at just 50? Or are we under the assumption that everyone is just flat out ******ed until they hit 50?

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitsuMarty View Post
    Why should the realization of grinding only have to happen at 50? Shouldn't that same instinct or sense of realization happen the moment you notice your sub-par, not at just 50? Or are we under the assumption that everyone is just flat out ******ed until they hit 50?
    You'll want newer players to enjoy their initial exposure to the various aspects of the game. Pre-50 PvP served very well in that regard before the introduction of XP-lock/twinking. It served well enough that I changed my mind about PvP (previously hated it) once I took a warrior alt to lvl 50 via varfront during 1.6 or so.

    Some of us play PvP for the fun, not in order to boost e-peen and get recognition from the PvP pros. I certainly didn't give much thought to gear while taking my warrior alt through PvP. That was hardly a problem as most others were the same, and the few that did twink leveled up and out of brackets rather than sticking around for months to grief newbies.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    You'll want newer players to enjoy their initial exposure to the various aspects of the game. Pre-50 PvP served very well in that regard before the introduction of XP-lock/twinking. It served well enough that I changed my mind about PvP (previously hated it) once I took a warrior alt to lvl 50 via varfront during 1.6 or so.

    Some of us play PvP for the fun, not in order to boost e-peen and get recognition from the PvP pros. I certainly didn't give much thought to gear while taking my warrior alt through PvP. That was hardly a problem as most others were the same, and the few that did twink leveled up and out of brackets rather than sticking around for months to grief newbies.
    Pure ignorance as well as proof that some people spew useless **** without reading anything. I leveled almost all my toons thru WF's before and during the xp lock. It was a hell of alot more fun on my alts that I was able to lock and gain favor equally without fear of being farmed and actually able to assist my team with kills, emphasis on kills, not just support. My first toon was my cleric before xp lock, guess what, I hit level 50 and was like "what the **** is this?" barely hurting people, 2-shotted constantly, I had to change the way I WANTED to play just to be able to SURVIVE long enough. I had to go to the MASH spec because that allowed me to live a tad longer. Fast forward to my alt leveling via WFs during xp lock, I noticed I was gaining favor more efficiently, cuz it was faster? not necessarily, but I was able to play the spec I WANTED without dying a gazillion times. It definitely seemed faster because I was having more fun doing it.

    The common misconception I've noticed about all you people "defending the rights of the new player". We were ALL new players, there has ALWAYS been gear disparity, if someone doesn't like the game or an aspect of it, it definitely won't be because they got stomped in a bracket. It's more likely it'll be because they felt they were bait and switched. Fun easy going WF's until 50 and bam MONTHS of being farmed until they can kill something solo. Or until they do what you all suggest "just play a support role". Who the **** wants to spend a few weeks getting to 50 with a spec they love, just to be forced to play something they don't like for MONTHS. Ill logic? I think so.

  9. #84
    Rift Chaser MitsuMarty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nefelia View Post
    You'll want newer players to enjoy their initial exposure to the various aspects of the game. Pre-50 PvP served very well in that regard before the introduction of XP-lock/twinking. It served well enough that I changed my mind about PvP (previously hated it) once I took a warrior alt to lvl 50 via varfront during 1.6 or so.

    Some of us play PvP for the fun, not in order to boost e-peen and get recognition from the PvP pros. I certainly didn't give much thought to gear while taking my warrior alt through PvP. That was hardly a problem as most others were the same, and the few that did twink leveled up and out of brackets rather than sticking around for months to grief newbies.
    Edit timer ran out.

    As for your comment on initial exposure, I agree. I, as well as countless other twinks, have stated xp-lock should not have been introduced into the 10-19 bracket as that is where all the fresh newbies are. I get that, I agree with that, but giving them a smooth ride until 50 is dumb. They should want to learn about what to get and what to save, so when they hit 50 they are prepared. They've realized damn the gear disparity gets really bad, maybe I should pvp more and save my favor so when I hit 50 I can buy the whole tier 1 pvp set right from the start. Without that, they will hit 50 fast, and then be forced to farm, what is it? 200,000 favor for the first set? The only way I would agree with that is if they up the favor rewards, but you know what happens then? You get people shouting "I'm tired of Trion giving handouts to newbs" Seriously, the same people that defend the newbie, turns around and says **** like that. So you tell me, what...the....****, do you guys REALLY want? I guarantee theres another motive and not just the newbies.

  10. #85
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    People keep carping on this "new player" thing.

    Truly new players to the game will fall into these categories...

    1) The people who won't play past their free trial because of a general dissatisfaction with the game or find that the game simply is not what they were looking for.

    2) The people who are primarily PvE focused.

    3) The people who are primarily PvP focused.

    4) The people who enjoy both aspects of the game, both PvE and PvP.

    5) The people who are most likely already bored or disgruntled with the game and are looking for a reason to quit.

    Now, the first group is not going to stick around regardless of whether or not XP lock exists in the game.

    The second group is not likely to quit because they're not interested PvP enough for XP locked toons to be an issue.

    People in the third group are unlikely to quit because, if they have any experience with a game like this, they know what to expect in a gear based MMO. If they're that interested in PvP, they won't be chased off because they got spanked a few times in low level WF's.

    The fourth group is unlikely to quit because, for them, low level WF's make up a very small portion of the game.

    Twinks are the most obvious target for the fifth group. They get blamed for people leaving, even though these people would probably leave due to just about any other trigger.

    Again, low level WF's make up a very very small portion of the game and are very easily avoided.

    "But I like to level solely through PvP", you say? Well, you fall into one of these three categories...

    1) The people who are primarily focused on PvP and should know all about gear disparity and how to deal with it.

    2) The people who want a free ride to 50 because you can earn XP's for doing absolutely nothing in a WF.

    3) And the people who are truly ignorant. Leveling strictly through PvP is about the worst option you can choose. Sure, you can get easy XP's and free favor, but it's still slower than leveling through questing. Not to mention that you miss out on all the other bonuses that you get from PvE, such as farming materials and leveling professions, the coin you earn from quests and farming mats, the gear you get from drops and quests which can either be used or sold for more coin and so on and so forth.


    So, what does all this mean?

    At the end of the day, anyone who blames XP locking in WF's for why they've quit the game is, 9 times out of 10, going to quit the game anyway. These people are just looking for an excuse to bail and XP locking / twinks is simply the most obvious target. The other ten percent will be a mixed bag of people who can't take the shot to their epeen when they get beat in a WF, people who are upset about not getting their free ride to 50 and, yes, a small number of people who simply do not like having to deal with level locked toons.

    In other words, the people who legitimately quit the game due to XP locking in low level WF's is actually quite small.


    And, just to reaffirm what I've said earlier. Anyone who would ragequit because they got spanked in low level WF's while leveling will almost definitely ragequit when he hits end game and finds out that it gets even worse.
    Last edited by Meina; 06-15-2012 at 11:19 AM.

  11. #86
    Shield of Telara jaal's Avatar
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    The irony of saying removing twinks is bad for low level PvP when it is infact the COMPLETE opposite. More people will PvP when they can have -->FUN<--. Lots of new players dont know about equipping planar items, they are new and need to learn. You rolling them isnt going to help their play experience let them learn and make mistakes.

    Asking for PvP to be more even isnt being a Care bare its called being fair to new players and having skill. Im sorry you can no longer top leaderboards now you dont hugely out gear everyone. you thoughts are incredibly selfish you want to have fun at the expense of everyone else in the warfront and it is THAT that is ruining the game players clinging on to their advantages that it making not so fun for other players

  12. #87
    Rift Chaser MitsuMarty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaal View Post
    Blah blah blah...
    Back up your statement. You say it's the complete opposite. How?
    Learn...how? If there's no challenge, there's no questioning. So what drives someone to learn about something that's not broken? The real motivation is overcoming the challenge, if there is no challenge, what motivation is there? The only way they will learn is by something happening (ie, getting there arse kicked) and them actually having the balls to ask, "wow how did he do that?" or simply go online like I did when I first started and got my arse kicked and did a search and educated myself.

    Imagine your in the UFC and your fighting your way to the belt, would you want them to put pansies in front of you until the title fight and then BAM you get f'n owned? No, you would want good fighters to go against so your constantly improving so you have a chance at that title.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meina View Post
    People keep carping on this "new player" thing.

    Truly new players to the game will fall into these categories...

    1) The people who won't play past their free trial because of a general dissatisfaction with the game or find that the game simply is not what they were looking for.

    2) The people who are primarily PvE focused.

    3) The people who are primarily PvP focused.

    4) The people who enjoy both aspects of the game, both PvE and PvP.

    5) The people who are most likely already bored or disgruntled with the game and are looking for a reason to quit.

    Now, the first group is not going to stick around regardless of whether or not XP lock exists in the game.

    The second group is not likely to quit because they're not interested PvP enough for XP locked toons to be an issue.

    People in the third group are unlikely to quit because, if they have any experience with a game like this, they know what to expect in a gear based MMO. If they're that interested in PvP, they won't be chased off because they got spanked a few times in low level WF's.

    The fourth group is unlikely to quit because, for them, low level WF's make up a very small portion of the game.

    Twinks are the most obvious target for the fifth group. They get blamed for people leaving, even though these people would probably leave due to just about any other trigger.

    Again, low level WF's make up a very very small portion of the game and are very easily avoided.

    "But I like to level solely through PvP", you say? Well, you fall into one of these three categories...

    1) The people who are primarily focused on PvP and should know all about gear disparity and how to deal with it.

    2) The people who want a free ride to 50 because you can earn XP's for doing absolutely nothing in a WF.

    3) And the people who are truly ignorant. Leveling strictly through PvP is about the worst option you can choose. Sure, you can get easy XP's and free favor, but it's still slower than leveling through questing. Not to mention that you miss out on all the other bonuses that you get from PvE, such as farming materials and leveling professions, the coin you earn from quests and farming mats, the gear you get from drops and quests which can either be used or sold for more coin and so on and so forth.


    So, what does all this mean?

    At the end of the day, anyone who blames XP locking in WF's for why they've quit the game is, 9 times out of 10, going to quit the game anyway. These people are just looking for an excuse to bail and XP locking / twinks is simply the most obvious target. The other ten percent will be a mixed bag of people who can't take the shot to their epeen when they get beat in a WF, people who are upset about not getting their free ride to 50 and, yes, a small number of people who simply do not like having to deal with level locked toons.

    In other words, the people who legitimately quit the game due to XP locking in low level WF's is actually quite small.


    And, just to reaffirm what I've said earlier. Anyone who would ragequit because they got spanked in low level WF's while leveling will almost definitely ragequit when he hits end game and finds out that it gets even worse.
    It's interesting that you figured all this out! Source?

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vickuz View Post
    It's interesting that you figured all this out! Source?
    Source? Common sense. He's not giving percentages, he's not giving absolute statistics, he is merely giving a common sense explanation of reasons (multiple) of why someone would quit.

    You do know that a source of reference material is generally written by someone with intelligence or experience on a certain subject. And since he's not assuming actual mathematical figures, just common sense in regards to a subject he's experienced in. I'd say him being the source is good enough for me, because it is based on facts.

    Do you play the game for PvE reasons?
    Do you play the game for PvP reasons?
    etc.

    He's basically giving common sense reasons on why or why not someone would quit based on what they're actually playing for.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitsuMarty View Post
    Source? Common sense. He's not giving percentages, he's not giving absolute statistics, he is merely giving a common sense explanation of reasons (multiple) of why someone would quit.

    You do know that a source of reference material is generally written by someone with intelligence or experience on a certain subject. And since he's not assuming actual mathematical figures, just common sense in regards to a subject he's experienced in. I'd say him being the source is good enough for me, because it is based on facts.

    Do you play the game for PvE reasons?
    Do you play the game for PvP reasons?
    etc.

    He's basically giving common sense reasons on why or why not someone would quit based on what they're actually playing for.
    I was not aware that common sense was telling people why he/she thinks they play the game and why they will or will not quit

    It's like doing what EA did last month when commenting about SWTORs huge population drop "the majority of the players that quit were not hardcore gamer's, and that's why they left."
    Last edited by Vickuz; 06-15-2012 at 01:30 PM.

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