The Problem with removing Exp Lock

[Primalthirst]

Keep in mind, though, that no one is forcing you to play this game.

Perhaps someone should. Then the OP might have some idea of what they're talking about.

[MannSeastone]

...warfronts will be abandoned in favor of progression.

It's a given.

Well, your last prediction about how Trion would handle twinking was wrong, which raised a philosophical question you might be able to help answer. Do people who are often wrong ever examine their track record and realize they'd have better odds betting against themselves? If they do, is being wrong is akin to deja vu, where any action taken to subvert it only leads to the conclusion they were destined to reach?

[Kyera]

You're right, I subbed 3 seconds in as a measure of the time it takes for Warfronts to pop, but based on information I've gleaned from reading twink threads over the past months, I can say that they're nothing less than a full minute. And even if they were a full minute, that'd still be a 2000% increase in queue times, judging by what you said. Based on information you provided in the OP, twinks account for 7% of the lower level bracket population. So, we're losing 7% of the population, but queue times will increase 2000%? Remember, this is all using information that you provided.

Seems legit.

I don't have a beef with anything else you said, but I personally doubt his 20m queue thing is supposed to be an overnight happening or occurring with the flick of a switch. I think you'll see a dropoff in pop rates (I popped on my twink warrior for something to do the other night and already noticed a slowdown -- from instapops to 2-3m) that gradually cascades into longer and longer queues as people don't wait as long (or queue for multiple things and get one of the others -- likely IA -- faster).

It's a cascade effect, and even though astronomical queues are but one permutation, they're not at all unreasonable. Hell, we already saw it with pre-twinking queue times (four level 50 alts can confirm they were terribly slow, since we're all relying on anecdotal evidence here anyway).

[tevikolady]

I don't have a beef with anything else you said, but I personally doubt his 20m queue thing is supposed to be an overnight happening or occurring with the flick of a switch. I think you'll see a dropoff in pop rates (I popped on my twink warrior for something to do the other night and already noticed a slowdown -- from instapops to 2-3m) that gradually cascades into longer and longer queues as people don't wait as long (or queue for multiple things and get one of the others -- likely IA -- faster).

It's a cascade effect, and even though astronomical queues are but one permutation, they're not at all unreasonable. Hell, we already saw it with pre-twinking queue times (four level 50 alts can confirm they were terribly slow, since we're all relying on anecdotal evidence here anyway).

^^ This

And yes, I've already seen slower WF pops, and exp locking isn't even gone yet.

My 19 rogue has to wait 2m-10m

And yes, yesterday, in many a warfronts on the guardian side, I was the only level 19. The only twink, and some of the gear choices of 'players just wanna play' choices was staggering. I saw some of the SS that Kyera produced and went wow, that's funny, thinking that she randomly choose a few people of those few...they all had less than steller gear, but chose the worst to support her eveidence.

I have screenies of my whole team that left the starter pad, which was about 6-7 people and I inspected a few durin gthe match as I was respawning (wait, I'm a twink, I'm supposed to be immortal goddess insta-gibber, wtn am I respawning???).

It's not just a problem, it's an epidemic.

[Zaiana]

I've come to accept that undergeared players will get into the 50 bracket and cry about that instead of twinking. We didn't need another thread about it.

...How many threads/posts have you made on the subject? Bit of a pot/kettle scenario there...

When players hit 50, they're in the endgame, it's reasonable to expect the difficulty to step right up... I mean, that's the way it works in almost every other MMO I can think of.... keep thinking you're making a good arguement though

Low level PVP will not necessarily be a wasteland, that depends purely on the population. Warfronts were definitely not twink heavy enough to justify any such comments either, I've heard a lot of players, new and old, say they don't PVP pre-50 anymore due to twinks.

Well, your last prediction about how Trion would handle twinking was wrong, which raised a philosophical question you might be able to help answer. Do people who are often wrong ever examine their track record and realize they'd have better odds betting against themselves? If they do, is being wrong is akin to deja vu, where any action taken to subvert it only leads to the conclusion they were destined to reach?

I like you.

[Meina]

...How many threads/posts have you made on the subject? Bit of a pot/kettle scenario there...

When players hit 50, they're in the endgame, it's reasonable to expect the difficulty to step right up... I mean, that's the way it works in almost every other MMO I can think of.... keep thinking you're making a good arguement though

Yeah, but what happens to the people who are new to MMO's?

They can pop into safe and secure WF's all during the leveling process and then, WHAM, they hit the wall of gear that is end game. I'm sure it will be a shock to a lot of people, forcing them to quit the game.

(see what I did there?)

Low level PVP will not necessarily be a wasteland, that depends purely on the population. Warfronts were definitely not twink heavy enough to justify any such comments either, I've heard a lot of players, new and old, say they don't PVP pre-50 anymore due to twinks.

Between the loss of twinks, who sit in one bracket and will populate a queue for hours at a time, and AI's, which sound like they'll be much more convenient for leveling, I too think low level WF queues are going to escalate. I'm also basing this on the atrocious queue times I experienced before XP locking was introduced.

But, seeing as my crystal ball is in the shop, we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[Zaros]

Yeah, but what happens to the people who are new to MMO's?

They can pop into safe and secure WF's all during the leveling process and then, WHAM, they hit the wall of gear that is end game. I'm sure it will be a shock to a lot of people, forcing them to quit the game.

(see what I did there?)

Bolstering

Also, I do love all the twinks who are so concerned about the well-being of the lower level brackets. You're all such saints! I sure am glad we've got people like you out there looking out for new players and doing nothing but improving the quality of life.

[Zaiana]

Yeah, but what happens to the people who are new to MMO's?

They can pop into safe and secure WF's all during the leveling process and then, WHAM, they hit the wall of gear that is end game. I'm sure it will be a shock to a lot of people, forcing them to quit the game.

(see what I did there?)

I don't actually :3 Plus the bolstering is getting super buffed which makes your point even less valid, exactly how less valid is yet to be seen. People can still overgear in low level warfronts in 1.9 you know.. what you twinks were telling everyone they should've been doing all along? Tryhard alts will still buy stupid gear to inflate their egos every now and then.

Between the loss of twinks, who sit in one bracket and will populate a queue for hours at a time, and AI's, which sound like they'll be much more convenient for leveling, I too think low level WF queues are going to escalate. I'm also basing this on the atrocious queue times I experienced before XP locking was introduced.

But, seeing as my crystal ball is in the shop, we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

I wouldn't be surprised if initially the twinks losses caused the wf average pop timer to drop by about <10%, potentially more at off peak times. Hopefully the addition of newbies who were just ragequitting the game with their free accounts due to twinks will push it up to the level it's at now though. Plus more subs means more activity! All Rift's players should advocate almost anything that is likely to drive up subscriptions, an unhealthy game is no fun, especially where PVP is concerned.

Either way, I just don't think it's a persuasive enough concern to justify keeping twinking in the game.

Bolstering

Also, I do love all the twinks who are so concerned about the well-being of the lower level brackets. You're all such saints! I sure am glad we've got people like you out there looking out for new players and doing nothing but improving the quality of life.

I'm gonna have to stop liking your posts soon before I get stalker complaints.

[MitsuMarty]

So, we're losing 7% of the population, but queue times will increase 2000%? Remember, this is all using information that you provided.

Seems legit.

I think where your math falls short is the foundation of the low level WF's. Sure by tevik's post it said 7%. But that's a constant percentage. The other 93% will be rotating in and out of the brackets, so yesterday could be one person that wants to level via wfs, tomorrow could be people (within that level bracket) that just want to quest or dungeon past it. So sure yesterday it was 7% because of the available people for that level, but tomorrow it could be considered 50% (within that bracket of course).

And of course, tevik is right, as soon as IA hits for low levels. Pre-50 Wf's will be gone except for the occasional queue pop here and there. It's common sense, something this forums has a major lack in.

[Zaiana]

I think where your math falls short is the foundation of the low level WF's. Sure by tevik's post it said 7%. But that's a constant percentage. The other 93% will be rotating in and out of the brackets, so yesterday could be one person that wants to level via wfs, tomorrow could be people (within that level bracket) that just want to quest or dungeon past it. So sure yesterday it was 7% because of the available people for that level, but tomorrow it could be considered 50% (within that bracket of course).

I'd try and contest your point but anyone with a download speed that high must know their shiz.

[bitnine]

You know, I just read the OP and I don't really think you can say that the small number of twinks in the game right now is what's causing WFs to pop as quickly as they do.

[Zaros]

I'm gonna have to stop liking your posts soon before I get stalker complaints.

<3

I think where your math falls short is the foundation of the low level WF's. Sure by tevik's post it said 7%. But that's a constant percentage. The other 93% will be rotating in and out of the brackets, so yesterday could be one person that wants to level via wfs, tomorrow could be people (within that level bracket) that just want to quest or dungeon past it. So sure yesterday it was 7% because of the available people for that level, but tomorrow it could be considered 50% (within that bracket of course).

That's true, but you also ought to take into account the people who will now do Warfronts, because twinks are gone. Really, only time will tell, but I seriously doubt the lower level brackets will be something Trion even thinks about, PVP-wise, after this change.

Edit: Which is a good thing. It means there's less to manage, and more content for endgame.

[MitsuMarty]

I'd try and contest your point but anyone with a download speed that high must know their shiz.

rofl, I lol'd irl

[MitsuMarty]

<3


That's true, but you also ought to take into account the people who will now do Warfronts, because twinks are gone. Really, only time will tell, but I seriously doubt the lower level brackets will be something Trion even thinks about, PVP-wise, after this change.

Edit: Which is a good thing. It means there's less to manage, and more content for endgame.

Very true, only time will tell. Either way, it happened, nothing can be done. Let's move on

[Meina]

I don't actually :3 Plus the bolstering is getting super buffed which makes your point even less valid, exactly how less valid is yet to be seen.

It was more tongue in cheek than anything.

Anti-twink's first line of defense has always been "Think of the newbs!!" After they remove XP locking, those same newbs will no longer be subject to the atrocities of low level WF's, they'll be tossed into the pit at 50.

In other words, they'll still be fodder for the over geared, as you call it, only it will be the p40's who will be stomping them into puddles. The big difference is that it takes a heck of a lot longer to reach p40 than it does to gear up for low level WF's.

Even with bolstering, which only does so much, newbs with fresh 50's will still be at the mercy of players who are p40, have lord knows how much PA and a lot more experience. Nothing has changed for the newbs but the level at which they learn about gear disparity.

People can still overgear in low level warfronts in 1.9 you know.. what you twinks were telling everyone they should've been doing all along? Tryhard alts will still buy stupid gear to inflate their egos every now and then.

No argument (outside of the "Inflate their egos" part). Twinks will still be around. There just won't be as many of them. Not that there was a metric crapton of them to begin with.

I wouldn't be surprised if initially the twinks losses caused the wf average pop timer to drop by about <10%, potentially more at off peak times.

Based on personal experience, low level WF queues have already increased by about 10%, and they haven't even removed XP locking or added IA's yet.

Hopefully the addition of newbies who were just ragequitting the game with their free accounts due to twinks will push it up to the level it's at now though. Plus more subs means more activity! All Rift's players should advocate almost anything that is likely to drive up subscriptions, an unhealthy game is no fun, especially where PVP is concerned.

As I've said many times, anyone who rage quits over low level WF's certainly is not going to hang around very long once they hit end game.

Either way, I just don't think it's a persuasive enough concern to justify keeping twinking in the game.

At this stage I'm not trying to keep twinking in the game. It's obvious Trion has a plan and they're sticking with it. I also agree that, from a game dev stand point, the mentoring system is a more robust system than XP locking and, logically, it's the right move to make. Not because it limits twinking, but because it provides a lot more options for people who want to stick around, or go back, to complete low level content they might miss while leveling. Not that I believe a lot of people will be using it.

What I am doing is trying kill off some of the rhetoric around twinking, lost cause that it is, and slapping down a few trolls in the process (Not pointing that finger at you specifically).