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Thread: New PvE stat Idea, Ferocity. (It

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    Telaran Izraels queso's Avatar
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    Default New PvE stat Idea, Ferocity. (It

    Ok so, like alot of people i'm tired of PvE weapons in PvP. I'm as tired of them being in PvP as PvE'ers were when PvP gear was BiS for PvE. Wierd right? So, how about we do the same thing to PvE weapons that they did to PvP gear and synergy crystals? Lets take enough of the stats from PvE weapons to make them slightly worse in PvP (DPS for melee weapons as well, especially on Relics) and turn those stats into a new stat called Ferocity. To sum it up, its basically Vengeance's PvE counterpart. Now that the Stat difference is settled we can now change Synergy Crystals!!! Simply make the procs only proc from PvE encounters! BAM! PvP gear is now BiS for PvP!!.

    Hit the enter button too early when making title.. was going to say it's PvP related.
    Last edited by Izraels queso; 06-12-2012 at 10:23 PM.
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    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    It is a known fact that vengeance does not scale very well compared to AP/weapon DPS.
    I imagine it has issues compared to SP as well.

    So why introduce another stat that may also scale poorly?

    My idea? Unnerf the PvP weapons.

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    Ascendant Ajax1114's Avatar
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    Better yet, give all raid drops, including vendor items that are purchased with raid currency, a special tag in the code. When you enter combat with another player, the stat boost from every item with this tag is reduced by a % (excluding Hit/Focus and including weapon DPS).

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    What PvE items are actually BiS for PvP other than weapons for rogues/warriors currently? The advantage of ID gear is going to fade when the new PvP tier comes out (assuming it's even worth the valor loss for any spec that doesn't need a raid crystal set bonus - looking at you MM), and the advantage of PvE weapons having hit and focus is going to be duplicated by PvP weapons in 1.9. If they continue on that path and add the next tier of valor essences and eventually a way to obtain PvP relic weapons, then there is no need for any more stat creation, rebalancing, or "tag codes".
    Last edited by rennlc; 06-13-2012 at 02:12 AM.

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    Telaran Izraels queso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rennlc View Post
    What PvE items are actually BiS for PvP other than weapons for rogues/warriors currently? The advantage of ID gear is going to fade when the new PvP tier comes out (assuming it's even worth the valor loss for any spec that doesn't need a raid crystal set bonus - looking at you MM), and the advantage of PvE weapons having hit and focus is going to be duplicated by PvP weapons in 1.9. If they continue on that path and add the next tier of valor essences and eventually a way to obtain PvP relic weapons, then there is no need for any more stat creation, rebalancing, or "tag codes".
    Uhhh lets see.. PvE synergy crystals like the ranger crystal with 3pc which if im correct makes Shadow fire instant. The Sin crystal with 4pc was pretty crazy a while back, the Sab crystal for sure.. And in 1.9 I see a world where PvE 4pc with crystal is even more viable, because of the increase to survivability and from what ive seen the lack of core stat gains from the new pvp gear. Also from what i've heard the pvp weapons are 2 tiers behind the ID weapons in hit. So from the looks of it, PvE will still be BiS for certain classes in PvP. Also if Vengeance scales so poorly then that could be another reason for PvE weapons to be BiS.
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    Prophet of Telara -Shiva-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    It is a known fact that vengeance does not scale very well compared to AP/weapon DPS.
    I imagine it has issues compared to SP as well.

    So why introduce another stat that may also scale poorly?

    My idea? Unnerf the PvP weapons.
    Wow, the end days must be close at hand, I liked one of Aguni's posts.

    But, yes, just unnerf the PvP weapons, and ignore the Raiders dumb whining. Vengeance is a stupid stat and it needs to be completely rethought, or just removed.

    Though if Trion were to give PvE weapons a Vengeance type stat on raid weapons, I think a better name for it would be Entitlement.:

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    Quote Originally Posted by rennlc View Post
    What PvE items are actually BiS for PvP other than weapons for rogues/warriors currently? The advantage of ID gear is going to fade when the new PvP tier comes out (assuming it's even worth the valor loss for any spec that doesn't need a raid crystal set bonus - looking at you MM), and the advantage of PvE weapons having hit and focus is going to be duplicated by PvP weapons in 1.9. If they continue on that path and add the next tier of valor essences and eventually a way to obtain PvP relic weapons, then there is no need for any more stat creation, rebalancing, or "tag codes".
    I use only PVE weapons as it is, just way more dps out of them which is important for killing a lot of builds. Then there are the super tank builds, and trolly clerics who you can't touch without at on of hit. For them... I actually have to toss on ID helm and gloves as well as weapons to hit reliably and kill. Sometimes I'll have a pocket healer... and when that happens the stars align. And out come the 4 piece sets with hk crystal (and pvp gear in other slots to have SOME valor). At that point, things melt like icecream on a hot summer day, it's a beautiful sight.
    Last edited by Laban of C O; 06-13-2012 at 06:53 AM.
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    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shiva- View Post
    Wow, the end days must be close at hand, I liked one of Aguni's posts.
    You've liked them before you smelly man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    It is a known fact that vengeance does not scale very well compared to AP/weapon DPS.
    I imagine it has issues compared to SP as well.

    So why introduce another stat that may also scale poorly?

    My idea? Unnerf the PvP weapons.
    Who knows, maybe Trion would do this, they seem to like putting in things and not balancing them properly. I mean, they already cant balance the souls they have out there now and they plan to add more with the expansion. So who knows, maybe they would do something like this as a solution, Trion is silly sometimes.

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    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Yeah...balancing 24 souls...totally easy.

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    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    It is a known fact that vengeance does not scale very well compared to AP/weapon DPS.
    I imagine it has issues compared to SP as well.

    So why introduce another stat that may also scale poorly?

    My idea? Unnerf the PvP weapons.
    The biggest problem with vengeance is that while it's intended to be an AP/SP for pvp only, it is not affected by talents you spec in to which modify your AP or SP. For example, if I have something i can put up to 3 points in to that increases my AP by 5%/10%/15% it only increases my AP, not my vengeance. I confirmed this with a GM a while ago (though it's possible the GM was either new or the drugs were kiciking in, due to the fact he had limited knowledge around a couple things I asked about). If your tree talents also modified your vengeance it would make your pvp gear that much more valuable in pvp.
    Unrated -- Now show me on this doll where the mean rogue touched you.

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    I say make pvp and pve weapons comparable. I would only suggest disabling hk crystals for pvp. I see no reason why a pvp weapon should not have hit and be useful for pve and vice versus.

    Disable hk crystals for pvp. They have to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Izraels queso View Post
    Uhhh lets see.. PvE synergy crystals like the ranger crystal with 3pc which if im correct makes Shadow fire instant. The Sin crystal with 4pc was pretty crazy a while back, the Sab crystal for sure.. And in 1.9 I see a world where PvE 4pc with crystal is even more viable, because of the increase to survivability and from what ive seen the lack of core stat gains from the new pvp gear. Also from what i've heard the pvp weapons are 2 tiers behind the ID weapons in hit. So from the looks of it, PvE will still be BiS for certain classes in PvP. Also if Vengeance scales so poorly then that could be another reason for PvE weapons to be BiS.
    I don't think 15% to aoe dmg is worth 140 ap/vengeance, 200+ valor, and around 1K HP for Sabo. The damage gain, if there even is a damage gain in aoe, isn't noticeable at all but the defensive stats certainly are. Sabo is a lot of things but toking PvE gear wonder spec isn't one of them.

    MM is absolutely better with a ranger 2-3pc but that isn't because the ranger 2-3pc is amazing so much as MM just does nonconstructive damage without it. In other words, at r40 vs r40 this spec has no burst without instant 2cp builders because our finishers will hit so far apart. If instant 2cp builders were included in the spec without a PvE crystal, then running MM with a PvP crystal would become the better option for PvP. Simple solution: Make Shadow Fire and Splinter Shot instant casts always, nerf their damage by 20%, and make the ranger 2pc increase their damage by 20%.

    The sin 4pc is still very good but only for Sin/RS gank/dueling builds where dmg taken is low and the defensive bonuses from RS can make up for the HP and valor loss. The parts that make this spec and gear setup as good as it is would be hard to duplicate for the other sin specs without making them overpowered. The only suggestions I have would be doing something like making Serpeant Strike apply expose weakness and adding some other passives in 40+ sin to increase damage and defense, shorten the CD on cut and run, and w/e else to increase the specs DPS and make its CC breaking and gap closing more comparable to RS and warrior specs.

    tl;dr HK crystals are only "too good" for certain specs because they're better than the alternative. Solution: buff the alternative.
    Last edited by rennlc; 06-13-2012 at 11:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aguni View Post
    Yeah...balancing 24 souls...totally easy.
    When did I say it was easy? I just said they cant do it, and they cant yet they are adding more in the mix wich will make it even worse. I dont think you got my point even though it was pretty clear.

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    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anmila View Post
    When did I say it was easy? I just said they cant do it, and they cant yet they are adding more in the mix wich will make it even worse. I dont think you got my point even though it was pretty clear.
    Mi culpa.

    I do think however you may be misinterpreting what they have planned.
    From what was stated, I believe they are doing an entire revamp of the souls.

    As they are now just adding another soul and more points would be pretty disastrous.

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