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Thread: Proccing PvP gear.

  1. #1
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Default Proccing PvP gear.

    Hi there, just something id like to see:

    1) Id like to see PvP armor that can proc, defensively AND offensively
    2) Id like to see Vengeance values on armors buffed to bring them in line with PvE gear
    3) Id like to see Valor actually DO something because at present its effect is negligible in and out of warfronts.
    4) Id like to see high elemental resistance values on PvP armor and have them alter the amount that Focus strips resistances against players to 0.25 per point of Focus rather than the 2.0 we see at present.
    5) Id like it if my PvP armor was actually best in slot for PvP and somewhat useful for PvE so i don't have to continously swap gear all the time.

    Who's with me! :P

  2. #2
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    I'm with you on all that but #3 -- how do you figure Valor doesn't do anything? Valor doesn't do enough vs the top end PvE gear, but against people using PvP gear it does plenty.

    For #3, I'd rather PvE gear just had an equivelent stat to Vengeance that affected only mobs. That way all PvP gear would be BiS for PvP..
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    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velkane View Post
    I'm with you on all that but #3 -- how do you figure Valor doesn't do anything? Valor doesn't do enough vs the top end PvE gear, but against people using PvP gear it does plenty.

    For #3, I'd rather PvE gear just had an equivelent stat to Vengeance that affected only mobs. That way all PvP gear would be BiS for PvP..
    Im referring to the imbalances between PvE gear and Valor mitigation.. at present it doesn't do anything against top end PvE gear as you state. Which honestly.. doesn't make ANYYY sense to me.

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    Ascendant Valnak's Avatar
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    More RNG is bad in PvP.

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    Great ideas!

    Pve stuff has procs on them..why shouldn't pvp gear?
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    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    Im referring to the imbalances between PvE gear and Valor mitigation.. at present it doesn't do anything against top end PvE gear as you state. Which honestly.. doesn't make ANYYY sense to me.
    Extra pve armor values don't make up for the valor you have by actually wearing pvp gear. Especially because raw armor values still do nothing for abundant magical damage. From a defensive point of view, all pvp gear with valor is king, unless you have an item with a unique defensive proc or something.

    The procs are good, but they need to be careful. Procs can easily become too powerful.

    Elemental resists I think would have been nice under a different game design. With what we have now, with having effectively r50 players eventually that will pack a minimum of 168 hit/focus (sup best leg rune o.O) they would have to itemize resists so high that they would be too useful for pve just to be at all worth anything in pvp.
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  7. #7
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Extra pve armor values don't make up for the valor you have by actually wearing pvp gear. Especially because raw armor values still do nothing for abundant magical damage. From a defensive point of view, all pvp gear with valor is king, unless you have an item with a unique defensive proc or something.

    Well i tested this theory against a 0 valor target wearing a mix of ID gear and Nyx Gear with a PvE crystal and a DPS sourcestone playing as a Pyro Lock and I was playing a full rank 40 full WAR 1299 (52.9 Mitigation) fully PvP geared 44 Pyro 22 Archon using 2 active shields (burning and consuming) stood inside ground of power with stones/vitality etc so i effectively had 120 Elemental mitigation which of course was naturall stripped by PvE gear making the archon points useless but its a very good Anti-Mage spec and versus a Pyro wearing PVE gear it was STILL down to the wire and dependant on which one of us hit heatwave fast enough, so thats 2 shields + a passive shield + ground of power + Archon buffs, my DPS was still pretty high considering but even that wasn't enough against the sheer might of good PvE gear and PvE sets combining Nyx/Runeburst gear... Pretty lame really but goes to show that valor and elemental resistance values versus players are simply broken or not effective really in any respect. PvP gear is basically crap unfortunately, and now with bolstering it means PvP is even more lame because even lowbies have a crackshot chance which is kind of unfair especially as a mage haha



    The procs are good, but they need to be careful. Procs can easily become too powerful.

    Of course they can, but i cant see anything wrong with that if they are sufficiently rare and or difficult to obtain. Its nice to have awesome uber gear to drool over afterall ^^

    Elemental resists I think would have been nice under a different game design. With what we have now, with having effectively r50 players eventually that will pack a minimum of 168 hit/focus (sup best leg rune o.O) they would have to itemize resists so high that they would be too useful for pve just to be at all worth anything in pvp.

    All they need to do is set focus versus players at a different resistance stripping value, for instance if ID is 400 focous then thats 800 resistance with present elemental stripping values, but if this is modified versus players ONLY to something like 1 focus = 0.25 elemental stripping power then 400 focus will strip 100 Elemental resistance, the highest you can get is probably Pyro-Con (44/22) which pans out to be between 100 resistance to 150 resistance, with planar protection etc a little bit more but it makes sense to sort it out, how it would play out with physical damage would have to obviously benefit classes with elemental enchantment but naturally elemental mitigation could play a factor in that extensively in PvP which makes the rest of the PA naturally more useful in PvP aswell as maintaining its usefullness in PvE. I think Focus and Hit should be on pieces of PvP gear naturally also to compensate for this kind of a system but it makes sense in the long run because then all you need is ONE set of armor, it would allow PvPers to PvE but not at ridiculously high tier PvE content whist also adjusting and reinforcing the usefulness of valor and vengeance as PvP stats will and how that mitigation combines with the armor, the class, and the characters primary focus to determine PvP armor to be better in PvP and PvE gear still somewhat useful for PvP but not seriously useful for high end PvP... it think its only fair to combine PvP and PvE a little in this way to make the game more enjoyable for both sides for the work in the gear that they have invested respectively.


    Thanks
    Last edited by V1rul3n7; 06-02-2012 at 08:54 PM.

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    I fail to see how any of that undermines the fact that valor is king stat for mitigation. Or maybe re-word it more clear, to be frank, you went like 8 lines before you even hit a period. I just kept reading and never knew where it went.

    Bottom line is, raid gear is not going to keep you alive longer compared to pvp gear. There are 3 gear/stat based ways to reduce damage

    armor value
    valor
    magical resists

    armor value is moot and not enough to tip the scale and magical resists with focus are moot. Therefore, I am not sure how anyone can conclude the best mitigation comes from anything but pvp gear. It's not like an opinion, it's a face. Unless I missed the 4th gear/stat based means of mitigation that raid gear has. All I see is people in raid gear take king kong sized crits from my rogue.

    Your using a stand off match as a testing grounds. That is not a grounds to determine that raid gear keeps you alive better than pvp gear. Even the premise of which you did it has too many off variables. At last, I can't believe this is attempt #2 after all these paragraphs to explain the most bluntly obvious thing in the game regarding pvp. The best and king of pvp mitigation is gained through valor. That is like....the premise of pvp though. And it is true. Doesn't mean full on valor is the best idea for pvp. But to say it is anything but the best available mitigation is wrong. There are pure diffrences in how high I can hit targets for with different degrees of valor. You may not feel 1400 valor cuts it, but with those expectations and standards, 0 valor would be like an auto immune patient visiting a new 3rd world country.


    Maybe were just on different pages, cause I am quite sure you are aware of everything I just wrote.
    Last edited by Violacea; 06-02-2012 at 09:28 PM.
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  9. #9
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    wtb stoneskin proc.


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    Tacos, tacos... *Sage nod*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    It's not like an opinion, it's a face.
    o . O
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velkane View Post
    I'm with you on all that but #3 -- how do you figure Valor doesn't do anything? Valor doesn't do enough vs the top end PvE gear, but against people using PvP gear it does plenty.

    For #3, I'd rather PvE gear just had an equivelent stat to Vengeance that affected only mobs. That way all PvP gear would be BiS for PvP..
    thats what I think. Make the primary stats and AP/SP different stats in PVP. And have PVP armor have those stats and the normal stats not work in player vs player. Problem solved. I to would like to see more procs. In general not just in pvp. I used to love all the cool procs and enchants in DAOC.
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  13. #13
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    You guys obviously dont read much.. let me simplify what i said.

    Anti Mage Spec - Full Valor - Full PvP Gear + Enchants

    Versus

    Anti Monster Spec - Zero Valor - PvE Relics + Enchants


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Anti-Monster PvE relic tooting mage will beat the Anti-Mage PvP gear mage consistently.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The specs: Pyro-Lock VS Pyro-Con

    Both Heatwave
    Archon has 3 shields up AND ground of power

    Pyro lock wins.

    You get it yet??? the Zero valor min-maxer PvE spec will beat the Max Valor PvP Spec.

    In other words, PvP gear is useless/crap and valor/vengeance are also useless/crap

    Even with completely identical specs it would all come down to whoever taps heatwave first, that is the neglible bar completely useless benefit provided by Valor and Vengeance.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Extra pve armor values don't make up for the valor you have by actually wearing pvp gear. Especially because raw armor values still do nothing for abundant magical damage. From a defensive point of view, all pvp gear with valor is king, unless you have an item with a unique defensive proc or something.

    The procs are good, but they need to be careful. Procs can easily become too powerful.

    Elemental resists I think would have been nice under a different game design. With what we have now, with having effectively r50 players eventually that will pack a minimum of 168 hit/focus (sup best leg rune o.O) they would have to itemize resists so high that they would be too useful for pve just to be at all worth anything in pvp.
    Wrong, PvP gear with Valor is not king, I know this through having max valor and having tested against PvE relic wielders, it actually comes down to whoever hits "heatwave" first, and if neither of us hit "heatwave" then a Pyro-Lock will easily wreck a Pyro-Con (which is an anti mage spec btw :P 3 shields + ground of power)

    You, like a lot of people are just "presuming" that it is king wheras I am actually telling you from real experience that the benefit provided from valor and vengeance is bar completely useless and a zero valor target with relic PvE gear will almost always generally beat a PvP geared max valor target (provided they play identical specs)

    The point is PvP gear NEEDS power, thats why it needs good procs.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    I fail to see how any of that undermines the fact that valor is king stat for mitigation. Or maybe re-word it more clear, to be frank, you went like 8 lines before you even hit a period. I just kept reading and never knew where it went.

    Bottom line is, raid gear is not going to keep you alive longer compared to pvp gear. There are 3 gear/stat based ways to reduce damage

    armor value
    valor
    magical resists

    armor value is moot and not enough to tip the scale and magical resists with focus are moot. Therefore, I am not sure how anyone can conclude the best mitigation comes from anything but pvp gear. It's not like an opinion, it's a face. Unless I missed the 4th gear/stat based means of mitigation that raid gear has. All I see is people in raid gear take king kong sized crits from my rogue.

    Your using a stand off match as a testing grounds. That is not a grounds to determine that raid gear keeps you alive better than pvp gear. Even the premise of which you did it has too many off variables. At last, I can't believe this is attempt #2 after all these paragraphs to explain the most bluntly obvious thing in the game regarding pvp. The best and king of pvp mitigation is gained through valor. That is like....the premise of pvp though. And it is true. Doesn't mean full on valor is the best idea for pvp. But to say it is anything but the best available mitigation is wrong. There are pure diffrences in how high I can hit targets for with different degrees of valor. You may not feel 1400 valor cuts it, but with those expectations and standards, 0 valor would be like an auto immune patient visiting a new 3rd world country.


    Maybe were just on different pages, cause I am quite sure you are aware of everything I just wrote.
    Its not true, the difference is negligble, you are presuming a lot mind you it may work out a lot better for rogues/wars/clerics since mages are stupidly broken atm but i did test out as a pyro v a pyro and it all came down to the heatwave.. i think thats pretty fair standardized testing which demonstrates that mitigation is barely useful at all infact i KNOW its fair standardized testing because i did it across a few classes and ive fought MM's and RS/NB specs with 0-50 valor who can hammer me down to 30% hp before i kill them (this is as a 33/33 war-dom) whilst i have max valor.

    I should also note i have to pop some of my defensive 3m CD's to even deal with a 0 valor rogue and if that rogue was a SAB or MM and i hadn't spotted them then id probably be doomed or have to pop all of my GCD's and escape (or try to even though i cant flicker)

    Go test it yourself if you dont believe me, dont just pull out quotes like "valor is king" because thats what you THINK you know when in actuality valor has been adjusted so much now that its barely useful at all.

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