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Thread: Trion. How to fix PvP.

  1. #1
    Shield of Telara Jawsnap's Avatar
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    Default Trion. How to fix PvP.

    1) Tone down the healing. There's too much of it from too many classes and it's just getting ridiculous now.
    2) Increase health pools to fall more inline with the probability of high single target damage.
    3) Tone down AOE's... for the love of god, I play 1 of each class - and have an AOE build on each - at 50, above R30. The AOE is ridiculous.
    4) TANKS GET THREAT, NOT MASSIVE MITIGATION FROM EVERY FORM OF INCOMING DAMAGE AND STILL SMASH YOUR FACE IN. Shields are great, I agree - but my R13 Defiant Warrior was able to demolish a Rogue and a Mage not 10 minutes ago in Moonshade. Rank 13. It's absolutely stupid.
    5) Some maps have too much LoS. Well, not for people like me, who understand the concept of LoS, but the general census of players seem to fail to understand it's purpose, and how it can A) save your life, and B) kill you. Some maps have too much and therefore, players are getting lost behind it and getting themselves killed.
    6) Please do something about people from RP and PvE shards. Granted, a lot can really play well in Warfronts and such, but as far as I can tell, the larger majority should stick to scripted fights and stay away from the real gaming. :/

    7) Classes. My god the classes.

    Rogue:
    1) Fan out: Delete it. It's ridiculously overpowered and actually cancels out the need for skill to play such a dynamic class.
    2) Nightblade - Lost Hope. Nobody should be able to stun someone undetected from a million feet away. It doesn't even work properly, I was tappin' people from well over 30 yards away and it wasn't down to lag, unless EVERYONE in the match had a million MS latency, I hover around 12ms - but 45mb broadband will do that for you.
    3) Guardian Phase. Just stop with it. You've broken it more and more over time. You get DPS-ers running around with it because they're hell bent on reducing incoming damage, their DPS suffers because of it and god forbid anyone tries to educate them in the errors of their ways.
    4) Nullify Eradicate. One warfront, I didn't even bother casting one damaging spell, I spammed the bajeezus out of that and it removes too many buffs in too short a time.

    Cleric:

    1) Heals are ridiculous. We don't have 35k Health Pools. There's no need for my R27 cleric to be able to overheal 200k on people because my HoT's are filling their HP up before they've even half expired.
    2) Sanction Heretic. Thanks. I like to randomly hit people with 1100 valor for 4k. That's great.
    3) TOO. MANY. KNOCKBACKS. You can effectively kite the crap out of any class with a choice of 2 or 3 knockbacks in quick succession.

    Warriors:

    1) Riftstorm? Needs reworking completely. It's relatively decent at level 50, the damage seems to balance out a little. A LITTLE. It's the only class in the game that can apply a buff that crits 1200 ticks and can still swing it's clubber! What... the... hell? It's even worse in the 40-49 bracket. My level 47 Warrior plane walked a chloro with 7.8k hp... at level 49. 7.8k - I borked it in about 3 seconds. Poor guy!
    2) Tanks that mitigate so much damage, generally don't pack too much of a punch. You need to fix this because it's ruining PvP. With massive amounts of Parry, Dodge and Block - physical damage is relatively 'come at me all you want bro' - with magic damage mitigation piled in - you're practically invincible, even with the worst healer in the game throwing one or two HoT's on you every now and then. Thou should not be able to swing thy 1h sword and shield hard enough to demolish 6-7.5k HP in the same amount of time that it takes a R34 Rogue to deal the same damage - especially at Rank 13.

    Mages:

    1) Dominator is fun as hell, and it's harder than the rest of the builds to play - but damn straight, when you master it, it's a game swayer. Diminishing returns on polymorph should be greater and the speed buff to cast time should only work on dominator abilities. 1.5 second cast cinder bursts are a little too much. Which leads me to pyro.
    2) Also love the spec, burst is amazing - but that's the problem. As with all glass cannons I suppose, you tend to be a force to be reckoned with. But throw in a Chloro tree with a few points for insta-blooms and your damage suffers absolutely no downfall, but your rate of survivability increases dramatically. That needs addressing.
    3) Locks... Necros... these old school builds need to be used more, fix the specs please - the damage is appalling and that's half the problem with mages - the only decent specs are the stupidly over powered ones.

    I've basically touched base on what *I* think are issues. You guys will have to wait a couple of years for me to find the Eff's I give if anyone says different. But each to their own, and opinions are welcome, I guess.

    A drunken pvp-er,
    Night.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Charlice's Avatar
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    Spam out isn't over powered. Over used, most definately.
    The number of rogues that use it on single targets makes me giggle.

    I still think the best fix would be to get rid of the stupid rank system all together and simply have one set of gear. That would make people cry though, so it would never happen.

    Making players now grind out to 50, while the starting set is now the old school rank 6/new school rank 25? set is so stupid.
    Words couldn't even explain how dumb I think that is. Rank 40's should just be playing for some new addornments, cosmetic stuff, a cool mount blah blah. The hit and focus stat, should just of been added to their rank 40 weapons.

    Another year of Rift and it can just be renamed Mudflation.

    As for the various souls. There is so few that are viable in PvP. Sure, you get that in other games too but I honestly don't think to the same extent they are in Rift.
    Elementalist is my fave soul. Sadly might as well run in waving a fish around as playing it in warfronts.

    Anywho. That is my 1 cent worth.


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  3. #3
    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlice View Post
    Spam out isn't over powered. Over used, most definately.
    The number of rogues that use it on single targets makes me giggle.

    I still think the best fix would be to get rid of the stupid rank system all together and simply have one set of gear. That would make people cry though, so it would never happen.

    Making players now grind out to 50, while the starting set is now the old school rank 6/new school rank 25? set is so stupid.
    Words couldn't even explain how dumb I think that is. Rank 40's should just be playing for some new addornments, cosmetic stuff, a cool mount blah blah. The hit and focus stat, should just of been added to their rank 40 weapons.

    Another year of Rift and it can just be renamed Mudflation.

    As for the various souls. There is so few that are viable in PvP. Sure, you get that in other games too but I honestly don't think to the same extent they are in Rift.
    Elementalist is my fave soul. Sadly might as well run in waving a fish around as playing it in warfronts.

    Anywho. That is my 1 cent worth.
    I think Trion is heading in the right direction though, they are lowering the gear disparity. There are better ways of going about this IF you didn't have to worry about raid gear in pvp altogether, but we do and having only one set of pvp gear will in the end do more harm than good, for now. I for one, like the rank system and the gear i just hate the crazy disparity, like you know Charlice, I love to look good in pvp. : )

  4. #4
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jawsnap View Post
    Rogue:
    1) Fan out is ridiculously overpowered and actually cancels out the need for skill to play such a dynamic class.
    I really, really hope you aren't serious
    ~Quiescent

  5. #5
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    I'm guessing you were still drinking as you wrote this post.
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  6. #6
    General of Telara
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    Agree with most the list though Fan Out is a pile of crap and if a MM wants to do that all fight long instead of purge all the HoTs on the Healer, by all means go for it. Surprised you didn't mention Sab builds though, they are stupidly powerful post 1.8 in PvP and makes things like Rift Storm which so many whine about look like a joke in comparison.

    Instant cast Bolt of Depravity alongside Sanction Heretic is stupid double shot 8k on a r40 PvPer? Sure why not.

    I would also add making all of Group 1 or everyone assistants - I am sick and tired of being in a team with a moron as leader that finds the complexities of marking or making assistants too much.

    How about a basic gear check? If a lvl 50 is running around with a 2 essence sigil and a bunch of green items signs up let him queue forever. PvP is painful enough when you are in basic purple non valor or first tier of PvP gear, last thing I need is a bunch of idiots in a r40 WF wearing crap my lvl 30 would be embarresed to wear. When they queue let a warning come up saying 'Warning, due to being a f****** we are unlikely to find you a WF to play in unless a lot of other idiots happen to queue.'

    As for the second poster regarding rank 40-50, you can't just keep PvPers at r40 gear when PvE continues to improve - its bad enough that a lot of benefits come from using PvE gear instead of PvP, having them stay a whole generation ahead is crazy.
    Last edited by Asteldian; 05-30-2012 at 03:21 PM.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    I remember the last time I cried about an ability being overpowered in an MMORPG.

    It was when I was playing my warrior. I cried about Lingering Wounds and Planar Blade.
    Glaiveheart :: Warrior || Areyk :: Cleric || <Wasted Talent> || Deepwood || Likes Received (1,200)
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  8. #8
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jawsnap View Post

    Warriors:

    1) Riftstorm? Needs reworking completely. It's relatively decent at level 50, the damage seems to balance out a little. A LITTLE. It's the only class in the game that can apply a buff that crits 1200 ticks and can still swing it's clubber! What... the... hell? It's even worse in the 40-49 bracket. My level 47 Warrior plane walked a chloro with 7.8k hp... at level 49. 7.8k - I borked it in about 3 seconds. Poor guy!
    2) Tanks that mitigate so much damage, generally don't pack too much of a punch. You need to fix this because it's ruining PvP. With massive amounts of Parry, Dodge and Block - physical damage is relatively 'come at me all you want bro' - with magic damage mitigation piled in - you're practically invincible, even with the worst healer in the game throwing one or two HoT's on you every now and then. Thou should not be able to swing thy 1h sword and shield hard enough to demolish 6-7.5k HP in the same amount of time that it takes a R34 Rogue to deal the same damage - especially at Rank 13.
    1) not true. Sorry get some valor
    2) You begasn by saying they do damage, which is true. Warrior tanks are fine in pvp. They do 0 damage because of the point investment of gifts. It isn't like Riftstalker which gets it's mitigation for little to nothing.

    Oh you're rank 13.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Charlice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HannonHellbringer View Post
    I think Trion is heading in the right direction though, they are lowering the gear disparity. There are better ways of going about this IF you didn't have to worry about raid gear in pvp altogether, but we do and having only one set of pvp gear will in the end do more harm than good, for now. I for one, like the rank system and the gear i just hate the crazy disparity, like you know Charlice, I love to look good in pvp. : )
    I don't see the need for ANY gear disparity at all if matched warfronts are what the majority of players want. The good players are still going to make less skilled players cry, but the cry babies won't have a leg to stand on.

    The gap is staying the same, correct, but.. newly dinged 50's will still see it as a 'OMG 50 RANKS WTF' sort of deal. The game is only just over a year old.. if it keeps increasing ranks at this rate it will be up to what? 100, 150 in another year?

    I am though, in no doubt, that you always look awesome.

    And for Robes. NERF VIOD BOLT!!!
    Last edited by Charlice; 05-30-2012 at 03:29 PM.


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  10. #10
    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlice View Post
    I don't see the need for ANY gear disparity at all if matched warfronts are what the majority of players want. The good players are still going to make less skilled players cry, but the cry babies won't have a leg to stand on.

    The gap is staying the same, correct, but.. newly dinged 50's will still see it as a 'OMG 50 RANKS WTF' sort of deal. The game is only just over a year old.. if it keeps increasing ranks at this rate it will be up to what? 100, 150 in another year?

    I am though, in no doubt, that you always look awesome.

    And for Robes. NERF VIOD BOLT!!!
    Yea, I liked Zaros' idea on match making. To me it sounds pretty awesome, and I hope it is taken into consideration. I'd love to see whiners not have a leg to stand on.

    As for the ranks, with the gear losing its disparity I don't think the ranks will matter as much since the gear will be pretty competitive to eachother. I don't mind grinding 100, 150 ranks... I just better look really damn good when I get there : D

    Oh, and before I forget. DON'T YOU ROLL YOUR EYES AT ME!

    lol Sorry, I started drinking early....again.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jawsnap View Post
    Rogue:
    1) Fan out: Delete it. It's ridiculously overpowered and actually cancels out the need for skill to play such a dynamic class.
    2) Nightblade - Lost Hope. Nobody should be able to stun someone undetected from a million feet away. It doesn't even work properly, I was tappin' people from well over 30 yards away and it wasn't down to lag, unless EVERYONE in the match had a million MS latency, I hover around 12ms - but 45mb broadband will do that for you.
    3) Guardian Phase. Just stop with it. You've broken it more and more over time. You get DPS-ers running around with it because they're hell bent on reducing incoming damage, their DPS suffers because of it and god forbid anyone tries to educate them in the errors of their ways.
    4) Nullify Eradicate. One warfront, I didn't even bother casting one damaging spell, I spammed the bajeezus out of that and it removes too many buffs in too short a time.
    1) fan is an aoe you can hit over and over but, its impact is not anything extraordinary. It's raw aoe power is not that insane. It's not completely useless, nothing to write home about though.

    2) There is a problem on your end. Lost Hope is not 30m. It's not. Also it is not a stun, a stun you can use in combat and it puts you into combat. The fact you can't use Lost Hope on a target out of combat and if Lost Hope doesn't expire, the rogue will cancel it out by showing themselves. Useful, not amazing. Works in line with NB abilities being 20m to use NB openers. Nothing amazing about Lost Hope.

    3) I have times I use it but, certainly not if I am focusing on killing people. I don't get what the big deal is. No dps in Guardian phase is wrecking anyone. Serves its purpose.

    4) Should be put on a cool down and given more significant impact when used.
    Last edited by Violacea; 05-30-2012 at 03:51 PM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  12. #12
    Plane Walker
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    It's already been said, but Lost Hope is not a stun, it's an incapicitate that can only be used from stealth. It breaks on damage. It has to be used on a target that is not in combat. The fact that you even mentioned it here as something overpowered, causes the rest of your post to lose a lot of credibility, regardless of whether or not I actually agree with some of it.

    As far as eradicate goes. I do think it's op on a class with a potential range of 35m. Give it a 10s CD and we're fine. Change it's name and give it to 51 sins or NB's and give it a 5m range, would drastically change how it gets deployed in team combat. Personally, I think there are too many purges available. Just my opinion though.
    Unrated -- Now show me on this doll where the mean rogue touched you.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emanresu View Post
    It's already been said, but Lost Hope is not a stun, it's an incapicitate that can only be used from stealth. It breaks on damage. It has to be used on a target that is not in combat. The fact that you even mentioned it here as something overpowered, causes the rest of your post to lose a lot of credibility, regardless of whether or not I actually agree with some of it.

    As far as eradicate goes. I do think it's op on a class with a potential range of 35m. Give it a 10s CD and we're fine. Change it's name and give it to 51 sins or NB's and give it a 5m range, would drastically change how it gets deployed in team combat. Personally, I think there are too many purges available. Just my opinion though.
    In unrelated news. clerics and mages (specced correctly) have cleanse. They never use it on anyone on their team. It works, I promise. It's a freakin great tool, really. I know, I know...it's tough using more than 2 buttons, but if you can learn how to do it the results will be spectacular!!!!
    Unrated -- Now show me on this doll where the mean rogue touched you.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    I disagree about the healing. Healing has been nerfed so much, while damage has been increased. It's completely out of whack.

    If they are going to keep increasing damage done, then they need to increase healing power (imo!)
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    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jawsnap View Post
    A drunken pvp-er,
    Night.
    I don't think its wise to post under the influence.

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