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Thread: Twinking is officially done!

  1. #196
    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    gear progression is an endgame activity and should stay there.
    Gear progression is ongoing, all the way to level 50.

    If gear progression wasn't required, then you could simply wear the starter gear all the way to level 50.

    It's a gear based game.

    There's also no need to harass other posters by calling them names. It's not cool.
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  2. #197
    Ascendant Puzzlebox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scioned View Post
    This entire game is one big gear progression, not just endgame bud. And yes, twinks go to extremes. Guess what. So can everyone else.
    The game isn't really designed to be pit stops at the end of every level bracket. If it were a more drawn out leveling process that really took the time to give a reason for people to sit down and enjoy the game where they are as opposed to focusing on dinging the next level, then I think level locking and twinking would be appropriate.

    But it's not. It's a race to the end-game where you have a fairly uninspired and straightforward leveling process on rails. Within that context, I think it's safe to assume that the leveling brackets are intended for people to learn what they can on the process to achieving level 50 and entering end-game. And with that assumption, I think you could make the stance that twinking is against the developer's intentions given the framework of this game and it's overall design.
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  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzlebox View Post
    The game isn't really designed to be pit stops at the end of every level bracket. If it were a more drawn out leveling process that really took the time to give a reason for people to sit down and enjoy the game where they are as opposed to focusing on dinging the next level, then I think level locking and twinking would be appropriate.

    But it's not. It's a race to the end-game where you have a fairly uninspired and straightforward leveling process on rails. Within that context, I think it's safe to assume that the leveling brackets are intended for people to learn what they can on the process to achieving level 50 and entering end-game. And with that assumption, I think you could make the stance that twinking is against the developer's intentions given the framework of this game and it's overall design.
    I agree with you Puzzleboz, but I and many other twinks liked the xp lock for that exact reason. we were tired of the mad rush/grind to endgame. This gave us and casual players a chance to mess around in the low levels without having to log in every night like a chore to grind out more prestige. If twinking is against the developer's intentions, then I think they should remove any piece of BoA gear with stats on it.

  4. #199
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    I don't disagree that people who put more effort into their gear should fare better but twinks go to extremes. I keep having to repeat this, but I will say it again: you should not have to gear up like its endgame while levelling, gear progression is an endgame activity and should stay there.
    You don't have to keep repeating it, because it's patently false, as I've had to argue time and time again. You don't have to gear up like it's the end game (by which I assume you mean setting your goal for BIS, and not upgraded individual pieces as you go; if you meant the latter, then yes, you should gear up like it's end game). You can be competitive as long as you keep your gear current (this does not mean BIS for your level), play smart, and spec smart.

    There is, unfortunately, a false perception regarding the gear needed to be competitive, and if we squashed out level-inappropriate augments and grandfathered gear, players could (probably) get even lazier. Some of the gear loadouts I've seen are just astoundingly bad. I keep repeating this one, but I queued into the 30-39 on my 33 crafting mule, who has 26/29 green armor, and she was better equipped than something like 8/11 people I looked at; in particular, one 31 rogue had on lower level armor pieces (with nothing runed), NO shoulders, an empty (or near-empty sigil, I can't recall), and two CLERIC weapons -- level 17 and level 19. A 31 rogue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    And regardless of your list of things you feel would have made the situation better all that really needed to happen was XP locked chars get their own queue, problem solved. I find it highly suspicious that this is not suggested in your list.
    The reason separate queues is not in my list is I don't like anything that could hinder pop rates (or, to some extent, that involuntarily bisects the population, which is why I have an aversion to paid expansion releases with associated level cap increases, but that's another discussion). Personally, I'd be fine with twink-only queues, but given the slow pop rates I experienced while leveling my four alts (rogue, mage, cleric x2), contrasted with the fast rates I got on my twinks and while leveling my cleric twink (cleric #3, for the record), I think it might actually hurt lower-level PvP (and we'd have the problem of players not getting enough pops to "learn as they level").

    The problem most frequently parroted regarding twinks is gear. The list of solutions I have "proposed" in my post (not all of which were originally my ideas, ofc) minimize the effects of the gear disparity. Arguably, this makes it all about skill, which is what people have seemed to want. If we want to move the goalposts to have them switch to, or include, a skill/experience disparity as part of the 'problem', it feels a bit like segregation and like we're about to start going down a slippery slope as to what we're controlling -- for example, do we prevent alts of players with 50s from queuing into the same warfronts because they have the experience, or do they get a pass (and the chance to curb stomp people) because they're leveling up?

    If Trion wanted to take the ranked warfront approach -- twink vs. twink warfronts and non-twink vs. non-twink warfronts, with the chance for a mixed warfront if the queue time exceeds a certain threshold -- that could work, and I probably would include that on my list.
    Last edited by Kyera; 05-24-2012 at 06:26 PM.
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  5. #200
    Champion of Telara Nightfall's Avatar
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    This and Conquest are the main reasons I resubbed to RIFT...


    Outstanding job TRION.....



    No twinks!!

  6. #201
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    So...now everyone will play their 50's again so we can get some nice level 50 r40 twink pvp going? Who's in for beating on new r1 players! I can heal!
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  7. #202
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    Default XP lock will be removed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghata View Post
    Doesnt say anywhere in that patch note that level locking will get removed. Just states mentoring as a new feature.
    From what I'm reading it will be removed as Mentoring will allow one to play at any level down to 10.
    Now what am I going to do with my level 1 twinks? Hmmm! Anyone thought about that? (LoL!).

    And now mentoring won't occur in warfronts from what I'm reading.

    I've a number of "well geared" lower level alts. I'll still have advantaged of being well geared. Since I do focus filling those slots over others I've noticed leveling. With mentoring I can set my alts levels while doing PVE. It's all good. Be interesting to run my mains with my lower toons. (I duel box in PvE).

    Trion giveth and taketh away.... Hail Trion! Looking forward to Conquest. Hope that fills my PvP need.
    Have pre-ordered GW2. (My only decision will be if I un-sub Rift). (Truthfully, I don't know any other mmo where the developers are so responsive to players. Good or bad depending on your point of view).

    Gratz to the anti-twinkers. It's still just a game. I'm not going to QQ. sniff... adapt and play on is my motto.

    Now I got this silly tune running through my head. "Ding dong the twinks are dead, the wicked twinks, the twinks of twinks...." LoL!

    One thing I do enjoy about Rift, is that you never know what's coming around the corner.

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    Last edited by Nuuli; 05-25-2012 at 02:58 AM.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racked View Post
    So...now everyone will play their 50's again so we can get some nice level 50 r40 twink pvp going? Who's in for beating on new r1 players! I can heal!
    Will you beat on my r19 almost 20 plz? I miss the torture. And now grind to r50? That light at the end of the tunnel has just stretched out again.

    Here's what's going to decide for me if I continue with this game. Grind frustration. Conquest may alleviate that. I'm hoping so. Being able to run with my guild will be fantastic.

    Slainte

  9. #204
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    on the bright side, people won't have the excuse anymore that the players owning them are twinks.

    on the down side, have fun with your pre-50 wf queues.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    on the bright side, people won't have the excuse anymore that the players owning them are twinks.

    on the down side, have fun with your pre-50 wf queues.
    That is true, the QQ'ing will just move onto something else. Humans cannot live in peace without opposition.

    I was a big time low level WF runner, I of course won't be running those anymore. So bye bye low level WF insta pop queue times. The upside is the low level IA's that are coming. That I'm looking forward too.
    Last edited by MitsuMarty; 05-25-2012 at 08:01 AM.

  11. #206
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  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitsuMarty View Post
    That is true, the QQ'ing will just move onto something else. Humans cannot live in peace without opposition.

    I was a big time low level WF runner, I of course won't be running those anymore. So bye bye low level WF insta pop queue times. The upside is the low level IA's that are coming. That I'm looking forward too.
    EDIT: I know, I alone, won't impact the WF times that much but all of us twinks that kept it alive do. Also, as an experiment, I've noted most of the big time anti-twinks in each of these threads, going to give it a few months and see how many of them that QQ'd about twinks also QQ about level 50 pvp in some fashion. Can't wait

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitsuMarty View Post
    EDIT: I know, I alone, won't impact the WF times that much but all of us twinks that kept it alive do. Also, as an experiment, I've noted most of the big time anti-twinks in each of these threads, going to give it a few months and see how many of them that QQ'd about twinks also QQ about level 50 pvp in some fashion. Can't wait
    Another thing to watch out for is people complaining about BoA gear in low level WF's and the devoted anti-twinks who, for some strange reason, will be supporting BoA gear in low level WF's.


    It's like we're repeating history...

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitsuMarty View Post
    EDIT: I know, I alone, won't impact the WF times that much but all of us twinks that kept it alive do. Also, as an experiment, I've noted most of the big time anti-twinks in each of these threads, going to give it a few months and see how many of them that QQ'd about twinks also QQ about level 50 pvp in some fashion. Can't wait
    In the spirit of experimental inquiry:
    * List the names of the people you'll be watching. That way we know that you won't cherry pick the ones who do complain.
    * Make a projection right now about what percentage of those will be complaining. 50%? 100%? 1%? Which?
    * Pick an equally sized list of pro-twink active posters and also list them if they 'QQ about 50 pvp in some fashion' (hence ANY complaint about level 50 pvp). Again, list these names now.
    * Its 5/25 right now. Give your end report on 7/25 whether your projection is right or wrong.

    Though I do think that 'QQ about 50 pvp in some fashion' is way too broad. E.g. a former twinker QQing about 'too many undergeared players in lvl 50 WFs' would qualify. A better test would be 'QQ about rank disparities in lvl 50 WFs'.

  15. #210
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rymer View Post
    In the spirit of experimental inquiry:
    * List the names of the people you'll be watching. That way we know that you won't cherry pick the ones who do complain.
    * Make a projection right now about what percentage of those will be complaining. 50%? 100%? 1%? Which?
    * Pick an equally sized list of pro-twink active posters and also list them if they 'QQ about 50 pvp in some fashion' (hence ANY complaint about level 50 pvp). Again, list these names now.
    * Its 5/25 right now. Give your end report on 7/25 whether your projection is right or wrong.
    I think he's allowed to cherry-pick situations and make arbitrary claims about people whenever he feels like, without any supporting evidence.

    After all, that's already been established as the status quo for this forum.
    Last edited by Kyera; 05-25-2012 at 09:57 AM.
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