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Thread: The Rage against the Twinks

  1. #136
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tevikolady View Post
    While I understand the thought process on this...kinda doesn't make sense to me.

    If they quit before they get to end game...how are the gonna know what end game is like? *^_^*
    Because low level WF's are a mini version of end game. Outside of the level of grinding and the difference in gear disparity (both are much worse at end game), the two are almost exactly alike. This being the case, people get a taste of what's in store for them early in the game.

    Although, lately, I find that there is much less drama in low level WF's, but that could just be a fluke.

    Besides, it really doesn't make a difference when they leave, outside of maybe Trion getting an extra month's worth of subscription money. If they are that adverse to this style of game, it's better for everyone if they find out early.
    Last edited by Meina; 05-21-2012 at 10:38 AM.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaiana View Post
    ... This is my last post here, clearly none of you are actually going to reply to half the points I made, but I think the one that hasn't sunk in the most is evidenced by this repeated "this is what level 50 PVP" is like arguement. I've already said why it's dumb in this thread, but the basic gist of it is that... 50 is endgame, 1-50 is a leveling experience. All the content below 50 is easier than content at 50. People don't ragequit as soon as they hit their first expert/raid dungeon because they're harder than the dungeons they did when they were leveling do they? Ofc they don't, it all get's harder as you get higher level and more comfortable with your character's abilities and roles. Why should PVP be any different? I see so many people talking about Twinking like it's been here since launch and is an integral part of PVP, it's a SIDE-EFFECT of an UNRELATED feature, none of you realise that it's only integral to you, and it hurts the playerbase. A Noob's subscription is worth just as much to Trion as a Pro's Subscription, so the people saying they should L2P or leave should really stop being so ignorant.

    On one hand you guys are arguing that Twinks aren't OP and on the other hand you're saying it's just like at 50 when high rank people are with low rank people. You cannot think both of these things at the same time, if Twink PVP is like the non-prime time Rank 1-40s all in the same warfront kind of thing, then the Twinks are indeed overpowered, and to make things worse there is no system that tries to keep twinks seperate from non-twinks, so it's like that ALL THE TIME.

    For the record, I've level locked a rogue at 30, a cleric at 40 and a Mage at 20. I'm going to fully gear them in dungeon/planar/pvp/questline gear and compare their stats with some of the X9s in my bracket to maybe stop some of the outright lying in this post. It really annoys me when I see people defending twinking by saying "Look, I haven't bought ALL the awesome stuff that can be bought" and here's 1-2 screenshots showing me doing well. Well done, you're a skilled player and a twink, you'll be top almost every time, you don't need to have the BEST gear in the warfront, because most people in low level PVP are not as good as 50+s, twinks included. 2 months ago, PVP in low level brackets was more competitive for the majority of the players, no one bothered to fully super gear their chars because there was NO point, unless you were filthy rich the time investment to gear up either leveled you too high or wasn't worth the time investment, you end up spending more time out of warfronts hunting down every last piece.

    Anyway, I'd say it's at least fair to say that outside of the buggy bolstering in 10-19 bracket you cannot be competitive anything lower than X5, at least not stand a chance against the twinks in the bracket before that level. Have any of you guys tried healing your way throught the brackets for example? My 44 cleric alt cannot even heal through a single twinked DPS as he is now, I doubt I'd even be able to heal through the damage at 50 without proper PVP gear or crafted gear with valor augs, in contrast when I fully kitted him out at about level 28 he could heal through most of the enemy team. And he currently has gear in every slot from level 37-44, fully runed and 4 world event essences.




    This is a very good idea, I don't see how a twink could really complain about it, not without showing his true colours anyway! They should just kill XP lock and utilize their new mentoring system. If you want to not recieve XP from a warfront, you have to mentor down to X5 for the duration of the warfront.
    Hey don’t give up. People are coming around. Nobody thinks they should be able to have overwhelming gear compared to their opponents anymore. So the question now is confused by two issues Exp Locking and Gear.

    Is there a legitimate reason to Exp Lock in PvP? Maybe--maybe not. Is there an alternative to Exp Locking like bolstering or even reverse bolstering where a level 40 could play at level 19. Can mentoring be designed to help make PvP more fun. Maybe max gear for each tier should be obtainable at level 5s.

    Just don’t get stuck into one position, because you will always get pushback. I think there is an attitude by some that you have to pay your dues. You have to suffer before you can enjoy. Usually that attitude is prevalent because that is how they may have progressed, “and damn-it if I had to do it so does every one else.” In actual fact we all pay the only dues that should be required, our monthly fee, after that if the game isn’t fun then it needs improvement. Many people aren’t enjoying the game in the 50s.

    Many aren’t enjoying it sub 50. Myself I have been enjoying it more as of late.
    Last edited by Riwijo; 05-21-2012 at 10:48 AM.

  3. #138
    Rift Chaser Lungboy's Avatar
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    I play in the 30-39 bracket and typically I'm top damage or right in there with the riftstorming warriors as a rogue. In my bracket it is very defiant heavy for twinks so a few friends rerolled guardians to keep it from being a steamroll.

    My gear is nothing special, quest items, planar and rep gear and a couple boe's from the AH. I had half of my gear in place by 35.

    When people moan in wf's about twinks I try to point them to easy sources of gear they can get. The most common reply? "Lol, I'm just leveling through, I'll gear up at 50"

    Well if you don't care about upgrading your level 6 sigil and other slots that are either empty or 10-15 levels behind, than you will get two shot by players that actually cared. If you are new, most twinks will let you know what builds work or where to get gear.

    I find the bulk of complaints don't come from new players,they come from existing 50s too lazy to gear up the alt they are leveling. In fact, I've had more positive feedback from new players thankful for the advice and help.
    Last edited by Lungboy; 05-21-2012 at 10:53 AM.
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  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaiana View Post
    On one hand you guys are arguing that Twinks aren't OP and on the other hand you're saying it's just like at 50 when high rank people are with low rank people. You cannot think both of these things at the same time
    Yes, we can. Twinks will beat up on people who put zero effort into their characters, just like high rank characters do in the end game. A guy who doesn't try (or doesn't care) is going to get worked when he hits 50, too. That's the comparison being made. Not that twinks are the low tier equivalent of a P40 with 165 PA levels. That's connecting dots that you want to connect to fit the narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaiana View Post
    For the record, I've level locked a rogue at 30, a cleric at 40 and a Mage at 20. I'm going to fully gear them in dungeon/planar/pvp/questline gear and compare their stats with some of the X9s in my bracket to maybe stop some of the outright lying in this post. It really annoys me when I see people defending twinking by saying "Look, I haven't bought ALL the awesome stuff that can be bought" and here's 1-2 screenshots showing me doing well. Well done, you're a skilled player and a twink, you'll be top almost every time, you don't need to have the BEST gear in the warfront, because most people in low level PVP are not as good as 50+s, twinks included. 2 months ago, PVP in low level brackets was more competitive for the majority of the players, no one bothered to fully super gear their chars because there was NO point, unless you were filthy rich the time investment to gear up either leveled you too high or wasn't worth the time investment, you end up spending more time out of warfronts hunting down every last piece.
    I'm not sure where this argument is going actually, because it seems the goalposts keep getting repositioned. So I'm just going to keep banging on the "you don't need to spend a ton of time or money getting competitively geared for the bracket" drum, and hope that sticks. After all, people keep banging on the "you DO need to spend a ton of time and money getting competitively geared for the bracket" drum, without substantiating it, and hoping that it sticks.

    I'll just bring myself down to compete at that level, since the average forum poster can't afford to take time away from their qq to put together a coherent argument; by that point, they'd have outleveled the thread. Wait, what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaiana View Post
    Anyway, I'd say it's at least fair to say that outside of the buggy bolstering in 10-19 bracket you cannot be competitive anything lower than X5, at least not stand a chance against the twinks in the bracket before that level. Have any of you guys tried healing your way throught the brackets for example? My 44 cleric alt cannot even heal through a single twinked DPS as he is now, I doubt I'd even be able to heal through the damage at 50 without proper PVP gear or crafted gear with valor augs, in contrast when I fully kitted him out at about level 28 he could heal through most of the enemy team. And he currently has gear in every slot from level 37-44, fully runed and 4 world event essences.
    If you've been rolling your gear upgrades as you go, you certainly should be competitive in the X0-X4 brackets. You won't necessarily top the charts, but we're talking about being competitive -- and competitive to me does not necessitate being equal, but being able to provide good competition, so maybe that's where we differ.

    I've tried healing through the 40-49 bracket, as a pure healer spec, and the bottom line is that the nerfs to healing specs and the buffs to spike damage (based on idiot dps qqs) make it exceedingly hard to actually keep a target alive through casted heals -- it's more or less about slowing their death down.

    As such, I opted for an Inquisicar spec, which performs quite admirably. You provide enough healing to delay, and you put out the pressure dps to get dps to back off (or even kill them), and you couple it with some CC to get them away from targets. You certainly have to play differently than you do in the 10-19 and 20-29 brackets, owing to the burst dps potential. I recommend you get your 44 in on some Stillmoor/IPP/Shimmer events to pick up a dozen ISS and get the Transplanar gear (especially once you get to 45), and find someone to craft you an Ebony Maul; that'll help your performance significantly. If you get a bit of luck with events (I had three nearly back-to-back last night, for example), you can get that sorted out in the blink of an eye.

    There's one other build I do want to try -- Mann's take on Sent/Ward -- since I do enjoy playing a traditional healer. I planned to try it the other night, but I never got around it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaiana View Post
    This is a very good idea, I don't see how a twink could really complain about it, not without showing his true colours anyway! They should just kill XP lock and utilize their new mentoring system. If you want to not recieve XP from a warfront, you have to mentor down to X5 for the duration of the warfront.
    I wouldn't object to this, since I'm a firm believer that you don't need to be an X9 with BIS gear to compete. Most of the people you're arguing with here would probably still play in such a bracket, even if the consensus is that a 'nerf' like this isn't even necessary. The people who would likely quit are probably too busy sending me profanity-laden tells and complaining about my gear when they outgear me to come on the boards in the first place.

    P.S. I totally waved at you last night Deb, in Sanctum.~
    Last edited by Kyera; 05-21-2012 at 10:56 AM.
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  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meina View Post
    Because low level WF's are a mini version of end game. Outside of the level of grinding and the difference in gear disparity (both are much worse at end game), the two are almost exactly alike. This being the case, people get a taste of what's in store for them early in the game.

    Although, lately, I find that there is much less drama in low level WF's, but that could just be a fluke.

    Besides, it really doesn't make a difference when they leave, outside of maybe Trion getting an extra month's worth of subscription money. If they are that adverse to this style of game, it's better for everyone if they find out early.
    I was poking fun at you Meina

  6. #141
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tevikolady View Post
    I was poking fun at you Meina
    Sometimes it's hard to tell.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaiana View Post
    For the record, I've level locked a rogue at 30, a cleric at 40 and a Mage at 20. I'm going to fully gear them in dungeon/planar/pvp/questline gear and compare their stats with some of the X9s in my bracket to maybe stop some of the outright lying in this post. It really annoys me when I see people defending twinking by saying "Look, I haven't bought ALL the awesome stuff that can be bought" and here's 1-2 screenshots showing me doing well. Well done, you're a skilled player and a twink, you'll be top almost every time, you don't need to have the BEST gear in the warfront, because most people in low level PVP are not as good as 50+s, twinks included. 2 months ago, PVP in low level brackets was more competitive for the majority of the players, no one bothered to fully super gear their chars because there was NO point, unless you were filthy rich the time investment to gear up either leveled you too high or wasn't worth the time investment, you end up spending more time out of warfronts hunting down every last piece.
    I will truly be interesed in your results. While I don't think there is as much as a gap as you might think a little insight into this 'gear gap' would be enlightening. That's all I've asked of you non-twinks, is to show us, the 'supposed twinks' where the gear disparity lies.

    I think the non-twinks wil be relatively surprised. But who knows, it might be us twinks.

    Please post your results, and nclude 'twink' gear, as well as random warfront runners, in your post. Although I would recommend you do this at level 25 (since that's where the planar gear is set for) it's your choice.

    Oh, and please only inspect the same respective classes. Don't compare your stuff to a warrior if you are a mage.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meina View Post
    Sometimes it's hard to tell.
    But...it's me??

  9. #144
    Ascendant Meina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tevikolady View Post
    But...it's me??
    If I had been paying a bit more attention I would have caught it.

    The problem is that I tend to be a bit too literal at times.

  10. #145
    Sword of Telara Thedarkside's Avatar
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    The game is called RIFT maybe if you start doing them along with the zone wide INVASIONS INVOLVING RIFTS you will find out that its extreamly easy to get gear/planarite/money honestly the ****ing games name is RIFT!!!!!!! The funny thing is rifts are how you get the best pre 50 gear and NO ONE at lower levels do them!!!! Maybe if you do RIFTS you could get the gear TWINKS use!!!!!!

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lungboy View Post
    ...10-15 levels behind, than you will get two shot by players that actually cared.
    It doesn't have anything to do with "caring", twinks and someone levelling simply have different priorities.

    It is pretty laughable how some people try and compare a twink that is going to be permantly in a bracket for the purpose of PvP, to someone levelling where PvP will be one of many things they do and their stay in a bracket is just temporary, often only days.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flimble View Post
    It is pretty laughable how some people try and compare a twink that is going to be permantly in a bracket for the purpose of PvP, to someone levelling where PvP will be one of many things they do and their stay in a bracket is just temporary, often only days.
    Silly Devil's Advocate Argument of the Day: Why are we making changes to satisfy someone who is only passing through at the expense of someone who wants to stay?
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  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    Silly Devil's Advocate Argument of the Day: Why are we making changes to satisfy someone who is only passing through at the expense of someone who wants to stay?
    Why do we install a mechanism that halts progression in a game allegedly based on progression?

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flimble View Post
    Why do we install a mechanism that halts progression in a game allegedly based on progression?
    Because some people complained they were progressing too quickly to savour the progression.
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  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flimble View Post
    Why do we install a mechanism that halts progression in a game allegedly based on progression?
    The game still has progression, but not everything has to be tied into progression.

    Seriously, we have weddings for Pete's sake.
    Last edited by Meina; 05-21-2012 at 08:27 PM.

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