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Thread: Campaign against exp lock in Warfronts

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riwijo View Post
    I don't know of any level 50 item that can be used on a lower level PvP...what are you talking about? The only thing that might come close is a crafting augment and those are based on crafting level not PvP level. You can have a level 300 crafter that is not level 50. So a level 300 apothecary can spend several platinum and make a purple augment for crafting, lets say for intelligence, he can apply it to a ashwood staff, and the max buff increase he will get +8 intelligence. Is that what you are talking about??? Even if I did that for every slot, your only going to get maybe 80 intellegence. Sounds like a lot right?

    But if you put planar, or won gear in those slots you will have greater, armor, endurance, and stats that directly offset all the advantage those expensive augments give. There might be on only the intelligence buff a difference of maybe 40 or 50 points. Is that what you guys are crying about?? Is that what is so game breaking. Hell, I have 2 twinks, and they don't have a single lvl 300 augment, you don't need them. Just fill up your slots, and know how to play a good PvP build and they will call you a twink anyway.

    It is so much easier to cry on tthse forums than to learn to play. Why are you guys crying so much?? You cannot put level 50 gear on a lower level twink, period.
    Ok, I understand that you can't equip level 50 gear on lower level characters,that's why it says level 50 on it. I should have been more clear. I'm talking about the runes you could only get with rep gained as a 50, the enchants from tier 2 PA and the various other items that slipped through cracks that allowed certain exploiters to gain an extreme advantage. Sure Trion are eliminating some of them when they are found, but to let the cheaters keep the modified items still presents a playing field that is not even close to even.

    Again, I have NO problem with level locking and getting the best gear and spec you can for that level bracket. I DO have a problem with exploiters claiming they have 'skill' and the people defending them on these boards.

    I'm not crying, I do pretty well for a new player and have even been called a twink myself. So I understand the people saying twink is over used for players who level lock and put some time into their characters.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bharel View Post
    Ok, I understand that you can't equip level 50 gear on lower level characters,that's why it says level 50 on it. I should have been more clear. I'm talking about the runes you could only get with rep gained as a 50, the enchants from tier 2 PA and the various other items that slipped through cracks that allowed certain exploiters to gain an extreme advantage. Sure Trion are eliminating some of them when they are found, but to let the cheaters keep the modified items still presents a playing field that is not even close to even.

    Again, I have NO problem with level locking and getting the best gear and spec you can for that level bracket. I DO have a problem with exploiters claiming they have 'skill' and the people defending them on these boards.

    I'm not crying, I do pretty well for a new player and have even been called a twink myself. So I understand the people saying twink is over used for players who level lock and put some time into their characters.
    OK I understand. I really don't think anyone would disagree, that a person should not be able to equip gear that was not intended for thier level. Trion has addressed much of these problems. The problems are the few twinks that may be grandfathered in with inappropriate gear. These few instances may still have to be addressed by Trion. I myself have not run into anyone like that. But I run into alot of players that look at anyone locked at the 9s as exploiters which they are not.

    I have read and participated in a lot of forum posts, I don't recall anyone defending an unfair advantage, I do recall many claiming that an advantage that belongs to all of us -- putting on proper gear -- as being unfair.

  3. #123
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    Okay this what gets me, I see numerous post of Twinking a char with this exp lock and why haven't they stopped it yet? I just don't understand why they can't just stop it.

    Thank goodness I'm not leveling an alt.
    Last edited by Oblivion333; 05-14-2012 at 03:16 PM.

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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misun View Post
    One thing I will say about a group of "twinks" they work well together. Have you ever noticed how they move together as one cohesive unit?

    I think if new players used that strategy as well, it would make the wf's more enjoyable.

    The art of focus fire is forgotten among some people as well. No one wants to /assist other players anymore it seems.

    What do you mean about exploiters/ cheaters. Can you elaborate please?
    Good advice for any level WF, I still tend to 'Rambo' it sometimes and try to take on the other team by myself. Those deaths I expect, hehe.

    Perhaps the more experienced players should state at the beginning of a warfront, "Assist me, we will focus fire them down." to give the newbies a heads up.

    As far as exploiters/cheaters, I kinda went into it in my above post. But, it seems almost everyone is against the grandfathered items. So I was arguing about some thing I didn't really have to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlice View Post
    Trion have made a lot of changes to stop what I class as cheating, but, they didn't remove the 'cheat' items from those who had already used them. I think they should, but, that's another thread.

    Just in case you weren't aware, you can change stones for a 'box of planarite' at the planar vendor.
    The stones advice is good. It took me griping about what I was going to do with the lower leveled stones after I had gotten everything I needed, when a helpful player pointed that out. It was a smack myself in the forehead moment.

    Sorry for sounding like such a crank, I had dental surgery today and they only gave me regular ol' Tylenol for the pain.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblivion333 View Post
    Okay this what gets me, I see numerous post of Twinking a char with this exp lock and why haven't they stopped it yet? I just don't understand why they can't just stop it.

    Thank goodness I'm not leveling an alt.
    There are a lot of good reasons to lock xp in PvE. You can stay at a lower level with friends that don't play as often, you can have guild help, you can finish quest that aren't just walk throughs, etc. When you lock XP for PvE, an oft requested thing in these forums, you have to allow it in PvP otherwise less people will PvP as PvP will break any XP lock in PvE. Setting up dual xp systems will just disadvantage every player that wants PvP and PvE.

    A lot of people like the ability of locking at a level in PvP so they can stay at the top of a bracket for longer than just a day, and enjoy the PvP. They have an advantage that is somewhat mitigated by bolstering. It only becomes an unfair advantage when they are allowed to equip powerful gear never intended for their current level. Many early twinks took advantage but you can't do it anymore. Much of the upset is because of these early Twinks, they could dominate, and in some cases still do, a warfront

    All the xp locking and twinking in the lower levels in nothing to PvP when you hit 50. There the gear imbalance is unbearable to many players. Lower level PvP is a viable alternative.

  6. #126
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bharel View Post
    Seriously, you and the other exploiters that jump to the defense of people using Level 50 runes, essences and augments, plus other loopholes to crush people make excuse after excuse. First it was "everybody can get the same gear", then it was "get a Level 50 friend or guildie to help you", the ever popular "it's worse at 50, so we're going to ruin all the low level WFs" and now it's "there are no new people, so it's fair to cheat" Make up your minds.
    I put a nice, long-winded, explanatory post about the gulf between twinks and non-twinks, and it seems to have been hand-waved off by several people here (you didn't address it, so I don't know if you ignored it or didn't see it, but this response is a typical -- and entirely dismissive -- one).

    So, I guess I'll ask this, and it's not merely directed at you, but at several other people: do you guys actually want to actually discuss twinking, it's problems (and non-problems), and potential "solutions" for people who feel they've been "victimized", or are we just going to bang on the drum all day and picket with Anti-Twinking signs? If people want to have a discussion, I'll get involved, but if it's merely a zealous crusade where people are inflexible, making assumptions, and unwilling to take in and debate points and counterpoints, you can have your little forum jihad all to yourselves.
    Last edited by Kyera; 05-14-2012 at 04:35 PM.
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  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bharel View Post
    Perhaps the more experienced players should state at the beginning of a warfront, "Assist me, we will focus fire them down." to give the newbies a heads up.
    Ok, one thing newbies or lower level/geared players can do is; after the wf has been going for a minute or so, sort the board by damage done. Then find the person on your team who has been doing the most damage and assist them. Make sure you have target of target turned on in your options.

    Usually they are good at picking the right order of targets as well.

    Another helpful thing you can also do is;

    Make a macro (by typing /macro) in game.

    A macro window will come up. Name the macro HEALER! and pick an icon for it.

    Then in the text part of the macro creator you can type /wf %t is HEALING!

    This will say in wf chat, the healers name, (when you have them targeted) so people can focus on bringing them down. You could also make one for the opposing teams highest dps, for when their healer is dead.

    You can sort the board by healing done as well, so you can pick out who has the highest healing on the opposing team.

    Also, don't forget ..you can type /target to find a certain player (healer or whatever.)

    For example /target Bigboy would target the player with that name.

    just some little tips I use, not sure if you knew about them or not.

    Hope it helps!
    Last edited by Misun; 05-14-2012 at 04:54 PM.
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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    I put a nice, long-winded, explanatory post about the gulf between twinks and non-twinks, and it seems to have been hand-waved off by several people here (you didn't address it, so I don't know if you ignored it or didn't see it, but this response is a typical -- and entirely dismissive -- one).

    So, I guess I'll ask this, and it's not merely directed at you, but at several other people: do you guys actually want to actually discuss twinking, it's problems (and non-problems), and potential "solutions" for people who feel they've been "victimized", or are we just going to bang on the drum all day and picket with Anti-Twinking signs? If people want to have a discussion, I'll get involved, but if it's merely a zealous crusade where people are inflexible, making assumptions, and unwilling to take in and debate points and counterpoints, you can have your little forum jihad all to yourselves.
    I think you used too many big words Kyera.

    Non-twinks (the non-geared non-twinks) don't want to listen, they don't want to discuss. Instead of listening, taking notes, and paying attention to all the help and advice we've given to them, they continue to growl and banter and admit that they, too, are twinks, albeit they won't admit that they are.

    Many, too many, admit to having level appropriate gear for their level range, then, out the other side of teh mouth, call for teh condemnation of 'twinks'.

    The only true twinks left in game are the grandfathered twinks, and yes, that needs to get sorted. However, having level appropriate gear in every slot and putting some effort in your gear is now, by definition a twink.

    Hopefully, Trion will sort out these 'grandfathered' twinks. They are, by no means overpowered and unbeatable, or, I have never met one myself, but they do die. Instead of ranting and railing on the forums, try submitting a petition detailing what runes these people have equiped and suggesting that the runes and items be seperated, but you can still keep them in your inventory.

  9. #129
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    For the sake of comparing the 'gear gulf', I decided to compare two 50s I have access to, as well as compare the stats of three 19 twink rogues that are identical aside from the augments in their gear (that is to say, I'm assuming they have gear in all slots and have, at least, BIS crafted gear -- since the costs for the pieces of gear and runes are small).

    For the two 50s, I used characters I had access to on a couple of accounts that I felt would drive the point home without necessarily being extremes. The first is a P3 mage that is in a mix of Expert dungeon gear and has picked up the first couple of valor pieces -- likely in better shape than the average 'fresh 50'. The second is a P34 rogue that doesn't have full Criterion, full Valor, top tier PvP weapons, any PvE relics, the top tier synergy crystal, and apparently doesn't have the PvP tree maxed (does have T1 air maxed) -- likely in worse shape than the rank capped PvP player.

    Obviously, I can't do a direct comparison, but I figured I'd list all of the stats anyway. These stats are unbuffed (not even self buffs) and do not factor in any procs (rogue has the 52 AP trinket and Necrotic Semblance; the cleric has some Crit proc garbage greaters), talent procs or non-stat damage buffs, or build-specific perks. Both are in PvP dps specs.

    Level 50 #1 (P3 Mage)
    Health: 5134 (End: 355) || Armor: 2465 (26.1% PvP Reduction) || Primary Stat: 499 || Secondary Stat: 337 || Valor: 370 (14.8%)
    Spell Power: 914 || Crit: 22.3%

    Level 50 #2 (P34 Rogue)
    Health: 6260 (End: 450) || Armor: 4085 (33.84% PvP Reduction) || Primary Stat: 744 || Secondary Stat: 417 || Valor: 1006 (40.2%)
    Attack Power: 947 (+ 49.6dps bow, or 2x 40.3 dps one-handers) || Crit: 36.4%

    The rogues, by contrast, were easy to put together -- I took the base stats, added runes, and then added appropriate augments. For a bow, I picked the stats off a 19 bow on the AH, since the gain from the higher weapon dps over the crafted exceeds the extra Dex from an augment. The rogues are in a MM/Rgr build with no passive stat scaling (the crit amounts don't include the 5% from Rgr).

    Level 19 #1 (Rogue; crafted gear w/ NO AUGMENTS + BoE drop bow, accessible runes/essences)
    Health: 1225 (End: 90) || Armor: 669 (19.4% PvP Reduction) || Primary Stat: 141 || Secondary Stat: 81 || Valor: 19 (2.0%)
    Attack Power: 150 (+ 2x 8.1 dps dagger, or 11.2 dps bow) || Crit: ~20%

    Level 19 #2 (Twinked Rogue; crafted gear w/ Flawless augments + BoE drop bow, accessible runes/essences)
    Health: 1225 (End: 90) || Armor: 669 (19.4% PvP Reduction) || Primary Stat: 258 || Secondary Stat: 81 || Valor: 19 (2.0%)
    Attack Power: 208.5 (+ 2x 8.1dps dagger, or 11.2 dps bow) || Crit: ~26%

    Level 19 #3 (Diet Twinked Rogue; crafted w/ Pure augments + BoE drop bow, accessible runes/essences)
    Health: 1225 (End: 90) || Armor: 669 (19.4% PvP Reduction) || Primary Stat: 215 || Secondary Stat: 81 || Valor: 19 (2.0%)
    Attack Power: 187 (+ 2x 8.1dps dagger, or 11.2 dps bow) || Crit: ~23%

    The gulf is certainly not as large as at the end game for someone who wants to put the effort in to get geared, and it gets narrower in the higher twink brackets. You can certainly make an argument for a bigger disparity existing at the earliest part of the 10-19 bracket, even for someone attempting to put things in all slots (the first couple of tiers of crafted gear are awful), and I wouldn't dismiss that one out of hand, but from 19 on, it narrows dramatically (especially with dungeon drops and PvP/planar vendor rewards as gear alternatives).

    Personally, I wouldn't oppose "twinking" only starting with the 20-29 bracket. I also wouldn't oppose a cap on augments based on gear level (e.g. Flawless goes in 40+, Pure in 30+, etc).
    Last edited by Kyera; 05-14-2012 at 05:25 PM.
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post
    I put a nice, long-winded, explanatory post about the gulf between twinks and non-twinks, and it seems to have been hand-waved off by several people here (you didn't address it, so I don't know if you ignored it or didn't see it, but this response is a typical -- and entirely dismissive -- one).

    So, I guess I'll ask this, and it's not merely directed at you, but at several other people: do you guys actually want to actually discuss twinking, it's problems (and non-problems), and potential "solutions" for people who feel they've been "victimized", or are we just going to bang on the drum all day and picket with Anti-Twinking signs? If people want to have a discussion, I'll get involved, but if it's merely a zealous crusade where people are inflexible, making assumptions, and unwilling to take in and debate points and counterpoints, you can have your little forum jihad all to yourselves.

    I went back and read your post. It's well thought out and makes a lot of sense. But you may have missed some of my follow up posts


    Quote Originally Posted by Bharel View Post
    I never said level locking or gaining level appropriate items shouldn't be allowed or that you shouldn't put time,effort and research into gearing and learning your class.

    I am not against level locking and getting geared in stuff "appropriate for that level bracket." I am against cheating the system to gain an unfair advantage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bharel View Post
    Again, I have NO problem with level locking and getting the best gear and spec you can for that level bracket.

    I'm not crying, I do pretty well for a new player and have even been called a twink myself. So I understand the people saying twink is over used for players who level lock and put some time into their characters.
    Just to show you I'm not a forum crusade and that I don't group level lockers with the people with grandfathered gear and people trying to exploit loopholes. Everyone seems to agree that grandfathered gear should be gone.

  11. #131
    Ascendant Kyera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bharel View Post
    I went back and read your post. It's well thought out and makes a lot of sense. But you may have missed some of my follow up posts

    Just to show you I'm not a forum crusade and that I don't group level lockers with the people with grandfathered gear and people trying to exploit loopholes. Everyone seems to agree that grandfathered gear should be gone.
    The issue I had with the follow-ups is that they seemed to be about as nebulous as many of the other posts on here w.r.t. what is considered "cheating" and "exploiting" and they followed on the heels of the quoted post, which seemed to be heavy-handed and dismissive. If that's not the case, mea culpa (edit: though, as I said, I was using your post as a springboard to address more than just you). You're right about the consensus being that grandfathered gear should be gone -- I had a couple of grandfathered pieces on my cleric, but I took her out of the bracket, so I don't have any left. ;)
    Last edited by Kyera; 05-14-2012 at 05:52 PM.
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  12. #132
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    @ Kyera

    I like your idea about the flawless augments only being able to be used at higher levels. (40+)
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  13. #133
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    The first post was pretty angry sounding, but I'm sticking to my excuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bharel View Post
    Sorry for sounding like such a crank, I had dental surgery today and they only gave me regular ol' Tylenol for the pain.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyera View Post

    Personally, I wouldn't oppose "twinking" only starting with the 20-29 bracket. I also wouldn't oppose a cap on augments based on gear level (e.g. Flawless goes in 40+, Pure in 30+, etc).

    I have levvied for this exact same thing since *I* began my crusade against twinks. I said I would be fine with level locking and gearing yourself for that level range as long as things were brought in line.

    Trion has addressed everything but crafted runes. If they did that, then there shouldn't be any argument left for twinking.

    Except grandfathered runes on equipment. Yes, I know the argument could be made that you *did* in fact obtain them for yourself, however, you still need level 50 assistance for those, and I only support armor/gear you can obtain through your own efforts on the character it is applicable to.

    But what really gets me is the 'twinks just want to roll newbs' vendetta everyone feels that 'twinks' in general have. That is never the case. I know I've litterally passed by some level 10's on the battlefield and watched as they shunned me, hoping I wouldn't kill them. I passed by a level 10 mage thinking...meh, he can't be *that* stupid...

    *Bam* fireball to the head. Now I *AM* a pissed off twink and I turfed him, and went about my business. Oddly enough, he didn't repeat his error.

    I don't graveyard camp either. If the team is backed up to their spawn, I let my team, usually level 14's or so camp the drop down points. I still busy myself collecting monies or chasing down any errant runes the opposing team has collected.

    I think its sick to GY camp, or spawn camp.

  15. #135
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    First let me say that has become every MMO that has PvP, not just Rift. I used to love PvP but now, you either twink, pot or, enchant to hades and back, or you die in one hit.

    I'd love a real test of skills, ALL gear must be obtainable w/o level lock at the level of the PvP match via drop or quest ONLY. Not pots, No enchantments - the ONLY buffs are those given by skills of yourself or team members PERIOD.

    Used to be a healer was actually needed, now why bother, just buy pots and enchant everything to death

    If you do happen to group with me, you will note that I pass on pots and sell the drops I do get of them. I don't pot (or use other consumables that accomplish similar effects.) No runes on anything either and, my gear is either quest, drop or bought with planarite- nothing cost one silver of plat. If I can't survive on my own spells and with my pet's help (Gravelord) then, I need to go grind on lower level mobs for a while.

    PvP should, IMO be the same, all of the "extras" disabled. It should test skill and quality of your build not who knows how to get the most plat.
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