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Thread: PVP: Goooooo bye-bye.

  1. #46
    Plane Touched Polyteknix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaedyan View Post
    There's no sandbox. Outside of foraging crafts, there's no reason for players to venture outside the capitals/instances. A game can't have sustainable PvP if players have nothing to fight over, and can't locate each other anyway.
    Wait. Why would people who play this game solely for PVP (and are the audience I am referencing) who don't care about foraging or anything need any other reason then PVP itself to venture out?


    I played Hide and seek as a kid. That game only had a home base, and no way to locate the other players. Why do people need something to "fight over"?

    New warfront idea. instances zone the size of RoTP (60% of which is unused space). Team with most kills at end if 30 mins wins. Fight.

  2. #47
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polyteknix View Post
    Wait. Why would people who play this game solely for PVP (and are the audience I am referencing) who don't care about foraging or anything need any other reason then PVP itself to venture out?


    .
    Thank you for demonstrating you have never played an MMO with good PvP design nor do you understand what generates organic PvP in MMOs.

  3. #48
    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polyteknix View Post
    Wait. Why would people who play this game solely for PVP .
    Because of what we were shown before the game even launched, as I've already shown you with links.

    Because fighting against another thinking, breathing human being is a lot more fun/challenging than fighting a boss that has the same scripted attacks/fight every single time.

    At least for most pvper's it is.

    You never know what's going to happen when you fight against another person, that's the thrill of it.

    Try it, you might like it

  4. #49
    Plane Touched Polyteknix's Avatar
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    @ Seether. Organic PVP would rely on the players engaging in it out of sheer shared interest; not the developed framework. Burden on the players.

    @ Misun. You truncated sentence. Not " Why would people PVP"... let me restate as "Why would people who only want to PVP need fake goals".

    PVP in concept is both content AND reward; people who need a reward TO PVP don't seem to be playing for the same reasons. They are the ones who will need so much content updates, shinies and window dressing that essentially they need a game where that type of PVP is the prime focus ( my initial point) The fact that organic PVP doesn't occur like you (and the developers probably) would like can be based on the gap between PVP for its own sake and PVP for reward players. Go back through these forums and identify the two camps: Those who think PVP is briloken because there haven't been enough gear, warfront, and content updates; and those who think PVP would be fixed by making a level playing field. I believe if more of the second group existed, and played the game open world organic PVP wouldn't be an issue. But the majority of people with that mindset wont play an MMO for their PVP fix... they're off playing other games where gear, etc. isn't a factor.

  5. #50
    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polyteknix View Post
    @ Seether. Organic PVP would rely on the players engaging in it out of sheer shared interest; not the developed framework. Burden on the players.

    @ Misun. You truncated sentence. Not " Why would people PVP"... let me restate as "Why would people who only want to PVP need fake goals".

    PVP in concept is both content AND reward; people who need a reward TO PVP don't seem to be playing for the same reasons. They are the ones who will need so much content updates, shinies and window dressing that essentially they need a game where that type of PVP is the prime focus ( my initial point) The fact that organic PVP doesn't occur like you (and the developers probably) would like can be based on the gap between PVP for its own sake and PVP for reward players. Go back through these forums and identify the two camps: Those who think PVP is briloken because there haven't been enough gear, warfront, and content updates; and those who think PVP would be fixed by making a level playing field. I believe if more of the second group existed, and played the game open world organic PVP wouldn't be an issue. But the majority of people with that mindset wont play an MMO for their PVP fix... they're off playing other games where gear, etc. isn't a factor.
    My thing is content updates. I pvp because it's exciting. However it does tend to get stale after playing the same wf's a gazillion times.

    I enjoy team vs. team. Probably because I play a healer? I like MMO's because I enjoy the fantasy aspect of it. I don't like FPS games because it makes my eyes feel weird. My husband likes them though. I do not.

  6. #51
    Plane Touched Polyteknix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misun View Post
    My thing is content updates. I pvp because it's exciting. However it does tend to get stale after playing the same wf's a gazillion times.
    I can feel ya there, But stale warfronts shouldn't be an issue in "theory" because there is this whole gigantic virtual world they created. It just seems people who want to play in it just for the sake of playing are the minority.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm for sure a Play for Reward type. But that's why I do the PVE stuff. And the majority of PVP I have done is because I needed Order of the Eye faction or because for a short time the (then) Rank8 gear was as good as HK stuff and could actually improve performance in HK.

    There are too many people like me and not enough like you is all I'm saying. And the effort they'd have to put in to keep someone like me engaged in PVP long term would be magnitudes more then what it would take to satisfy someone with PVP as their primary interest. And I just don't see the company thaving those resources.
    Last edited by Polyteknix; 05-04-2012 at 08:26 PM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polyteknix View Post
    I can feel ya there, But stale warfronts shouldn't be an issue in "theory" because there is this whole gigantic virtual world they created. It just seems people who want to play in it just for the sake of playing are the minority.
    .
    Look, as I said in other posts, it is clear you have never played an MMO with a strong focus on PvP and therefore you have no clue as to what generates it. You don't even seem to PvP very much in Rift, so I suggest you go back to posting about raiding because it is something you actually have some knowledge of.
    So please stop repeating the same stupid tripe over and over.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polyteknix View Post
    Wait. Why would people who play this game solely for PVP (and are the audience I am referencing) who don't care about foraging or anything need any other reason then PVP itself to venture out?
    Wrong question. It's "How are players who want to PvP supposed to find each other when the game world is mostly empty".

    Quote Originally Posted by Polyteknix View Post
    I played Hide and seek as a kid. That game only had a home base, and no way to locate the other players. Why do people need something to "fight over"?
    So they know where the action is. Also, PvP is a money-sink.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polyteknix View Post
    New warfront idea. instances zone the size of RoTP (60% of which is unused space). Team with most kills at end if 30 mins wins. Fight.
    Instances are ok, but I think most players are also getting bored with them. We need an area for open-world PvP, so that we can also have asymmetric fights.

    Also, Trion outlaws teamwork in instances. So we need a place where it's ok for players to play as a team.

  9. #54
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polyteknix View Post
    See that's the thing I was looking for. Do you have any example of this "PVP Hype"? I mean I went back and looked at some of the promo videos and I do see the Defiant/Guardian conflict played up; But PVE always came off as the primary element to me.

    And the way you said it. "We're gonna go try GuildWars 2" is nice. But people saying "Rift is dead because PVP sucks" just boggles me.
    The intro video should give you a clue.

    The PVM in this game is so boring i cant do it. The only thing keeping me here atm is the pvp. At dont think for a second inm the only one who feels this way. The quest system is so generic and boring, and dungeons is meaningless, dull and waaaay to easy. They havent done anything to balance those with all out new powers.

    So the only real challenge is pvp, and and is going downhill really fast atm. Many pvpers have left already and more will leave. PVP have never been so unbalanced as it is now.

    Maybe they HAVE given up PVP.. it sure seems that way.
    Shame, but there are other games.

    Im hoping ESO will get it right, with 3 factions and everything.
    Can I have your mana?

  10. #55
    Prophet of Telara Zaiana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misun View Post

    Because fighting against another thinking, breathing human being is a lot more fun/challenging than fighting a boss that has the same scripted attacks/fight every single time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misun View Post
    My thing is content updates. I pvp because it's exciting. However it does tend to get stale after playing the same wf's a gazillion times.
    Doesn't the first point kind of counteract the second point? PVP shouldn't need anywhere near as many content updates, since it's so varied each and every time even in the exact same warfront...
    "If the young are not initiated into the Village, they will burn it down just to feel it's warmth"

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaiana View Post
    Doesn't the first point kind of counteract the second point? PVP shouldn't need anywhere near as many content updates, since it's so varied each and every time even in the exact same warfront...
    So, you're saying you're not tired of the same warfronts over and over? Of course this game needs pvp content updates. People are quitting left and right.

    That's why there's no more consistent ranked matches.

  12. #57
    Prophet of Telara Zaiana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misun View Post
    So, you're saying you're not tired of the same warfronts over and over? Of course this game needs pvp content updates. People are quitting left and right.

    That's why there's no more consistent ranked matches.
    The only issue with the PVP in this game is the lack of sense of achievment when you hit rank 40 due to lack of epeening options, most vocal people on the forums are very competitive in nature and as such this doesn't do it for them.

    I think it's probably due to the fact that we're all playing a game. It's widely accepted in society that "playing games" is completely unproductive, the sense of accomplishment in games redeems this for most gamers though, even though in the back of our minds we know the sense of accomplishment from games is completely superficial (I think the realisation of this in the conscious mind is probably 90% of the reason the pro PVPers quit and hop to the next game, until they reach the same conclusion). Since most people don't want to "just PVP" and simply want to get the thrill of well organised competition this game does not do it for them.

    I actually think the PVP in this game is pretty great though, there are a few things I think need to change, like the way CC is handled in warfronts and the imbalance of healing across classes, but I think that coupled with a better competitive options, like Arena and ranked matches would redeem the PVP in the mind of most of the whiners.
    Last edited by Zaiana; 05-05-2012 at 03:05 PM.
    "If the young are not initiated into the Village, they will burn it down just to feel it's warmth"

  13. #58
    Plane Walker
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    after watching a warrior doing 640k damage and killed 36 people in codex i think its time to say goodbye.
    He didnt even care to reeapply buffs, no1 could touch him anyway.

    It was fun while it lasted.
    Can I have your mana?

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