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Thread: Please nerf warriors, from a warrior

  1. #106
    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakaru View Post
    Unlike WoW, or Guild War, Rift admins obvioulsy don't play pvp them selves or
    pyro/domino would have been nerfed already.
    Mostly thats due to survival. A shortage of real options forces the squirrel gimmick which is really finicky with DR. I'd personally love to see some more variety.

    Question for you though, its not really the fireballs you object to is it? Just the concept of getting squirreled?

  2. #107
    Rift Chaser Kelebra's Avatar
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    I think everyone in this thread needs to pint point more directly what it is everyone is qqing about. While i read most I did not read all so i appologize up front if this does not apply to you. I have seen people commenting about deep champ builds; stop! No one is complaining about the overal busrt of deep champ builds. People are complaining about 38RB/28Champ, so lets keep on topic with this build and not bring in other warrior specs. Again peoples concerns seem to be based around damage and mobility. First lets look at damage. RB are not a range melee class. They have 3 spears that have a 20M range two of which are on a 15s CD and 1 is on a 4s CD (maybe 6s i forget). Of those three 1 is a silence, 1 is a root and 1 is straight dmg. Windspear (silence) and firespear both do the same dmg. It is very hard for me to consider this soul to be a range class with these three attacks and the CD's they have. Any range class with spamable range abilities including a NB/RS can spam ranage all day out of melee range and the RB will really only be able to hit you every 4s. So if we can lets please drop the RB's are a range build and can spam dmg from 20m.

    I think everyone can agree that riftstorm is fairly strong, I am not 50 P40 on my warrior so I really cannot comment but there are many ways to midigate this damage (though the CC/DR in this game really limits that sometimes). First off i don't know how many times I watch people just sit there and eat the full RS and not even try and move out. Save your knock backs and your gap makers for when the RB blows riftstorm. I have plays against alot of bad players who were able to fathom the idea that if I wasn't standing on top of them they weren't getting hit by riftstorm....noble concept I know. I will say however, perhaps the damage should be looked at like I stated in my last post near the bottom of page 6.

    Secondly I find it amazingly frustrating to see people QQ about RB's mobility when any rogue build with RS has had insane mobility since beta; coupled with NB's heal reduction/siphon and defenisve CD's. I would think more people would QQ about the NB/RS builds more so than RB/Champ (maybe its becuase 1.8 is so fresh and the damage out put from warriors is really good right now). In order to really fix the "mobility" issue RB needs to be balanced around a concept Trion has apparently never considered. That concept is during an average fight between equally gear and skilled players how much time should a melee be within melee range of a range damage dealer. If their idea is that if all things equal a melee should be within melee range of the ranged attacker 50% of the time and they should both land KB's at the exact same time then the game should be balanced around that idea. This would include damage/CD's/CC both players have at their disposal. If perfectly balanced and both classes can then land that KB at the same time then what happens is skill comes in to play. If that melee can be on the range more than 50% of the time he will win or visa versa. This then becomes the driving factor to how much a soul or soul combo can put out and what utility kit they are given.

    The last thing I would like to comment on is heal reduction. I have alway thought and will always desire that all heal reductions are single target abilities with a CD that have to be ACTIVELY applied. None of this spam aoe abilities and put heal reductions on groups of players. Heal reductions need to be used to train down someone, never passively applied. This again brings back group coordination and skill.

    Anyways huge wall of text tl:dr skip my post if all your here to do is herp derp and bash or blindly defend warriors or any class.
    Marrow of Seastone (Cleric-Main)
    Kelebra of Seastone (Mage-Alt)
    Remorse of Seastone (Warrior-Alt)
    Nine of Seastone (Rogue-Alt)

  3. #108
    Rift Chaser Kelebra's Avatar
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    Also wanted to comment about a fight I had last night with a Pyro/Dom. Guy had 7k hp I would assume mostly all T3 pvp gear. He completely sat there and face tanked me, never flickered and never squirrled me. I had to use all my cc including shifting to a critter and bull rushing back for the stun to interupt him. Also potted. When I killed him he rezzed and yelled out how OP RB was and how trash of a PvPer I am. Just to put things in perspective for some of the people out there who don't realize how truly bad some of the people in this game are.
    Marrow of Seastone (Cleric-Main)
    Kelebra of Seastone (Mage-Alt)
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  4. #109
    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    @kelebra NB/RS has had a ton of threads devoted to it. Few people think it fits the survival/output model well. It can't really be right to point at a different classes OP to justify Wars.
    That would just land all classes with one uber gimmick. Ideally seeing more viable builds should be a goal.

    Two of the three ranged attacks you listed create havoc with caster classes. The root impairs kiting and the silence impairs the ability to respond. They can be affected by DR but then so can everything. It creates 4 GCDs where a melee break does not impair war output. In and of itself not a bad thing though it does alter the 50% melee contact rule you were discussing.

    I believe the root of the complaint is that the spec in discussion allows too much contact for the current damage output. Without constant contact the damage output isn't unbalanced. As it stands bursting someone down in 3-4 globals with no chance of escape or retaliation is painful.

    Two camps are formed in the anti group, those asking for less gap closure to mitigate the 100% contact and those asking for a damage nerf to allow the higher contact.

    The arguements against change appear to be.. you didn't run away when you saw me on the map.. and people can shoot me so if I can get to you, you must die.

    My personal arguements here are :
    people can shoot me too!! I still don't feel I'm in a position to demand free kills. (Mage)
    I can't shoot back or run..someone save ME! (Cleric)

  5. #110
    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelebra View Post
    Also wanted to comment about a fight I had last night with a Pyro/Dom. Guy had 7k hp I would assume mostly all T3 pvp gear. He completely sat there and face tanked me, never flickered and never squirrled me. I had to use all my cc including shifting to a critter and bull rushing back for the stun to interupt him. Also potted. When I killed him he rezzed and yelled out how OP RB was and how trash of a PvPer I am. Just to put things in perspective for some of the people out there who don't realize how truly bad some of the people in this game are.

    Just guesses at what might be going on there:
    Did you notice your energy being depleted or your weapon being disarmed? Without that he was catching heals from somewhere and probably accounts for why he was pissed to die. No sqiuirreling would mean to me you were immune or the player was not high enough dom for instant squirrel...or very bad.

    Ground of strength maybe? Were you getting immunes on your cc?
    Last edited by CericX; 05-01-2012 at 07:42 AM.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by CericX View Post
    @kelebra NB/RS has had a ton of threads devoted to it. Few people think it fits the survival/output model well. It can't really be right to point at a different classes OP to justify Wars.
    That would just land all classes with one uber gimmick. Ideally seeing more viable builds should be a goal.

    Two of the three ranged attacks you listed create havoc with caster classes. The root impairs kiting and the silence impairs the ability to respond. They can be affected by DR but then so can everything. It creates 4 GCDs where a melee break does not impair war output. In and of itself not a bad thing though it does alter the 50% melee contact rule you were discussing.

    I believe the root of the complaint is that the spec in discussion allows too much contact for the current damage output. Without constant contact the damage output isn't unbalanced. As it stands bursting someone down in 3-4 globals with no chance of escape or retaliation is painful.

    Two camps are formed in the anti group, those asking for less gap closure to mitigate the 100% contact and those asking for a damage nerf to allow the higher contact.

    The arguements against change appear to be.. you didn't run away when you saw me on the map.. and people can shoot me so if I can get to you, you must die.

    My personal arguements here are :
    people can shoot me too!! I still don't feel I'm in a position to demand free kills. (Mage)
    I can't shoot back or run..someone save ME! (Cleric)
    First, they have 30sec cooldown and may or may not be effective depending on DR. Silence is not going to affect your ability to simply run if nothing else. They have 20yrd range (as does riftwalk) which is shorter than other callings range abilities.

    Pray tell what chance something like a high champ build has if people play somewhat intelligent. Such builds might have 1 range ability from 2nd soul and no riftwalk. Probably only bull rush which has 15 sec cooldown and does not remove any cc that may be on the warrior. Toss a slow, stun, kb, etc and focus fire and he dies very quickly. If you don't move and remain in range, then he will lay down a hurt -- which is as it should be.

    Fact is, planar RB build is currently the only viable means a warrior has to keep pressure on a range opponent which is the majority of pvp players. Using it does not guarantee a kill and there are some counters but that seems to be ignored by most. I would like to run other non-RB build but usually lack of mobility, escape, survival makes them non-viable in most scenarios. Seriously, why is it okay for a warrior to be an easy kill for range class?

  7. #112
    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Kindle fire post. Fixing
    Last edited by CericX; 05-01-2012 at 10:03 AM.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costs View Post
    Yes, and the majority of us (even members of the warrior class) who pay our subscriptions, have agreed you need a nerf.

    Mind you everyone, this guy's main is a warrior and he trolls every forum to keep his EZ-mode broken spec.
    Nonsense. No one has agreed to a nerf. Read the posts from players who disagree with you. Having the same 6 - 7 players post over and over again is not the community.

    We have told you in detail why you are wrong. Pointed out warfront results and the leaderboards. Explained the difference in classes. There is nothing overpowered about warriors and the community, developers, and good pvpers know it.

    So. We do not believe in a nerf to warriors. Stop lieing.

    The only issue is that Trion has provided more balance between the classes and ranged vs. melee. Accept it so we can start enjoying the game.

  9. #114
    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    Pointed out warfront results and the leaderboards.
    You keep bringing up leaderboards. Out of the top 50 players for kills, in the top 10..there's 5 warriors.

    Out of total damage done in the top 50, in the top ten, 4 are warriors.

    Again, the leaderboards only show how much someone has played. It has no bearing on which class is "op" or not.

    It's exactly like the rank grind they used to have in WoW. People who had a ton of time on their hands, got High Warlord.

    So your leaderboard argument is invalid.
    Last edited by Misun; 05-01-2012 at 10:19 AM.

  10. #115
    Rift Chaser Ming's Avatar
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    Mobility is too good in combination with the damage output. Needs adjusting. End of story. I sat here and watched all the QQ about wardens who got annihilated for far too long from too many warriors to not say anything now that warriors are OP in PvP. They don't need to be nerfed into the ground like wardens were, but they need to be shakeable. They kill too fast with too much ease. I can agree with the argument that if you go toe to toe with a warrior (RB/champ) as a soft class you should be in trouble, but it's not like there's a way to not go toe to toe now, and there's very little one can do to shake them off.
    Formerly Scarecrowe... now Skullcluck. I know, I need to L2P, thanks. Save your breath.
    If you want a healer so bad why don't you roll one up?

  11. #116
    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stilly View Post
    First, they have 30sec cooldown and may or may not be effective depending on DR. Silence is not going to affect your ability to simply run if nothing else. They have 20yrd range (as does riftwalk) which is shorter than other callings range abilities.
    Not disagreeing, this is in response to above posters statements. Reread both to get reference.

    Pray tell what chance something like a high champ build has if people play somewhat intelligent. Such builds might have 1 range ability from 2nd soul and no riftwalk. Probably only bull rush which has 15 sec cooldown and does not remove any cc that may be on the warrior. Toss a slow, stun, kb, etc and focus fire and he dies very quickly. If you don't move and remain in range, then he will lay down a hurt -- which is as it should be.
    Is your high champ build the same one being discussed?

    Fact is, planar RB build is currently the only viable means a warrior has to keep pressure on a range opponent which is the majority of pvp players. Using it does not guarantee a kill and there are some counters but that seems to be ignored by most. I would like to run other non-RB build but usually lack of mobility, escape, survival makes them non-viable in most scenarios. Seriously, why is it okay for a warrior to be an easy kill for range class?
    Why is it OK for anyone to be a free kill? I would like to see you run non-rb specs too. Please reread the bottom lines of my post. Those are the things to be addressed imo and I'm not picky about how it gets done.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming View Post
    Mobility is too good in combination with the damage output. Needs adjusting. End of story. I sat here and watched all the QQ about wardens who got annihilated for far too long from too many warriors to not say anything now that warriors are OP in PvP. They don't need to be nerfed into the ground like wardens were, but they need to be shakeable. They kill too fast with too much ease. I can agree with the argument that if you go toe to toe with a warrior (RB/champ) as a soft class you should be in trouble, but it's not like there's a way to not go toe to toe now, and there's very little one can do to shake them off.
    Ranged dps is high given the fact it is ranged and not melee. The OP ranged dps dominating everything and everyone needs to end. Bottom line. End if story.

    Warriors damage is no more overpowered then any other class in the game. Give it up. If you honestly want balance.... You have it. Stop complaining.

    And to the guy saying the leaderboards mean nothing. Give it up man. They do mean something and prove in a unbiased way that warriors are not overpowered. Also, warfront results are showing the sand trend. Just because warriors can kill you now is nit a bad thing.

    Got it? You seem to be slow at processing.
    Last edited by Majorin; 05-01-2012 at 10:47 AM.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    Ranged dps is high given the fact it is ranged and not melee. The OP ranged dps dominating everything and everyone needs to end. Bottom line. End if story.

    Warriors damage is no more overpowered then any other class in the game. Give it up. If you honestly want balance.... You have it. Stop complaining.

    And to the guy saying the leaderboards mean nothing. Give it up man. They do mean something and prove in a unbiased way that warriors are not overpowered. Also, warfront results are showing the sand trend. Just because warriors can kill you now is nit a bad thing.

    Got it? You seem to be slow at processing.
    Addressing your statement regarding leaderboards. They no worky. Things are being counted that shouldn't and things that should are not. .... this feels like deja vu...

  14. #119
    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorin View Post
    And to the guy saying the leaderboards mean nothing. Give it up man. They do mean something and prove in a unbiased way that warriors are not overpowered. Also, warfront results are showing the sand trend. Just because warriors can kill you now is nit a bad thing.

    Got it? You seem to be slow at processing.
    You don't have to be insulting to make a rebuttal. It undermines the point you're trying to make, when you have to result to insults.

    You've seen several people say that they are at the top of the leaderboards, because they have been playing a lot lately, even though they have admitted they are not the best in their class.

    Yet, you've chosen to ignore those statements.

    However, I can easily turn your argument against you, since you're convinced that the leaderboards mean something, by saying that in the top 50 of kills, in the top 10...5 of those players are warriors.

    In the most damage done of the top 50 players, in the top 10..4 are warriors.

    So, by your own logic, you have lost that argument.

    Again, the leaderboards mean nothing. It only means that those top people have been playing a lot.

    Leaderboards= time spent playing and nothing more.

  15. #120
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    If mobility is to be nerfed then ALL mobility needs to be nerfed. I say this because classes like rogues have the craziest mobility out there, even their MM builds have the potential to just MOVE and very quickly. It will only be right that if warrior mobility is to take a hit that once they get in range of melee, that it should not be as easy as clicking a button and the MM is no longer in danger.

    The whole point of riftwalk was to get from point A to point B without needing a defensive CD to get us there. Taking it away will mean, WE WILL NEED DEFENSIVE CDS. Planarblade may need a nerf but not a big one, someone suggested a GCD for it so that it does not proc back to back but is a hell of a lot shorter of CD then 45secs like normal. I'd say maybe somewhere between 5-10 secs between uses if you use Planarblade and only if it procs back to back.

    Rift storm just needs to be channeled, that will even it out I think, maybe a adjust damage accordingly to match cornered beast once channeled.

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