Warriors need the big damage. That is not the issue. You should be forced to recognize and address the warrior. The problem is recognizing and addressing the warrior is like throwing snowballs at a tank and hoping it freezes in place.
I hope Trion does one of two things:
1.) Lower the range of rift walk to 10m
2.) Leave everything like it is, and make it so you cant get riftwalk and lingering wounds in the same spec.
Originally Posted by Rizaz
Just do something about the obnoxious infinite gap closing (even riftstalker is borderline re****ed, but rift walk...) and make the healing debuff cleansable so you can heal back up if you survive the burst, considering it's impossible to get out of for most specs. (Stone/Wind spear)
It's your fault that you are drawing conclusions from suspect data.That was actually the only ranked match I was in all day...and it wasn't until much later in the day.
It's not my fault that there's not enough people playing the game anymore for consistent ranked matches.
If you have an issue with that, I suggest you take it up with Trion
The only data set of value in your screenshots is the Ranked match that appeared to be evenly matched teams. Any screenshot that isn't Ranked, and the Total Kills aren't within 10%, is not reliable.
Back to the OP topic, Warrior single target damage is not a problem.
Warriors should not have the best AoE damage, though. Even if it is melee only.
Warriors should not have roots, stuns, snares, silences, AND teleports with 20m range AND huge single target DPS. It's too much, especially for Clerics who have almost no escape tools. Theoretically Clerics have high mitigation through Armor to combat Warrior DPS, but as we all know, the physical component is not that significant a contributor to toal damage.
Arch General Velkhar, P50 Cleric
PvP Healing: Purifier, AoE Healer, Senticar, Ward/Sent
PvP Open World: Duracell-esque
Well those were the wf's I was in, on 2 different characters, guardian and defiant. Same battlegroup though. My rogue is low ranked, so I had hoped to be able to have low ranked matches on her, so I could try to show how it was at lower ranks too. But alas, a lot of pvper's are leaving the game= not enough ranked matches.
I agree with you about clerics have no escape. When I'm on my healing cleric it's pretty brutal..I just can't get away. Break free is a joke.
Well, you can pop an insta-heal, maybe a 800 pt shield, might possibly get off one 1.5 serendipity cast heal- but in all cases it's very short one sided battle. Healing specced clerics don't have a purge either, not that it would even matter as the buff is buried too deep. Warrior on you = screwed without immediate 3rd party support and it has to be jonny on the spot. And for laughs they're running in wolfpacks so basically it's like clubbing sleeping baby seals for them.Well those were the wf's I was in, on 2 different characters, guardian and defiant. Same battlegroup though. My rogue is low ranked, so I had hoped to be able to have low ranked matches on her, so I could try to show how it was at lower ranks too. But alas, a lot of pvper's are leaving the game= not enough ranked matches.
I agree with you about clerics have no escape. When I'm on my healing cleric it's pretty brutal..I just can't get away. Break free is a joke.
Formerly Scarecrowe... now Skullcluck. I know, I need to L2P, thanks. Save your breath.
If you want a healer so bad why don't you roll one up?
I know! And the worse thing about it all..I feel really violated after a pack of warriors gets done with me
I'm telling you ... every time my cleric gets face melted by a warrior this video comes to mind (First 35 seconds .... the rest of the video is Trion telling me about 1.8):I know! And the worse thing about it all..I feel really violated after a pack of warriors gets done with me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-e7vEqkhIo
Btw, know I have posted this before ... but it REALLY suits the argument. Notice the desperate kicking as we try to knock them back, the minor dps vs their full heals, your team mates watching in shock and horror as you (fully HoTed with CD up) die horribly fast, the feeling you get at the spawn point knowing their sitting at the bottom waiting for you to come back. lol
Last edited by Costs; 05-02-2012 at 08:30 PM.
They'll get nerfed has to happen. It's out of hand.
Formerly Scarecrowe... now Skullcluck. I know, I need to L2P, thanks. Save your breath.
If you want a healer so bad why don't you roll one up?
So i heard when 1.8 hit, Majorin became an incredibly skilled warrior. I mean, its obvious, since he feels warriors are so well balanced now. Its obvious his incredible skill is finally showing.
this is dumb.
Rogue: dear trion I play MM and i don't want to use my gap open[ERS], cooldowns, stuns, purges, and slows, or take advantage of my superior gap allowance to mages even because im 2 busy spamming fanout on this group of people.
Trion: guys i think we should nerf MM rogues.
Zoartype@Deepwood
sh*t warriors shouldn't have anything then. u guys are so dramatic with your nerf calling...
i will say clerics could use a couple escape tools. not defensive cooldowns but gap openers. more then one at least.
Zoartype@Deepwood
So you all want warrior dps, mobility, utility and whatelse nerfed? Is there no end to the list, you do reailze that nerfing everything you can to a class only hurts the community right?
As I said a few times. If you nerf warrior mobility then ALL mobility needs to be nerfed, ALL defensive CDs need to be reworked since warriors have NONE. All of you are so quick to swing the nerf bat and you do not realize the harm it actually causes. For too long, warriors have been sufferring with subpar damage, no CDs (we had to put points into tak souls to gain survivability) and barely a spot for WFs, hell Rogues in full dps trees were better than warriors at front lining. Now, it sounds like most of you are SOOO used to just face tanking warriors that it has hit you as a shock that you were even killed by one.
Now, take a breath, and calm yourselves. Damage is not the big issue. The issue is our mobility on one soul. I say, if, IF, it is to be nerfed, that we ease into the nerf bat and try to put a ICD so that it cannot be used back to back ut still lowers the CD from 45secs it normally is. It refreshes on a crit but can only be used every 5-10 secs opposed to being spammed.
Warrior damage is not out of control, it is on par with everyone else. The difference is that warrior's damage is done in melee (which is why planar blade is so crazy right now) and they have no defensive CDs to back them up. Everyone else has the option to do that damage from 30-35m with mobility (don't say you don't MM you know you do.) and plenty of defensive CDs and utility. Once Warrior mobility is controlled you will see that threat drop, atleast enough to give you a chance to escape, of course I'm sure I will see plenty of ranged DPS standing completely still and let warriors destroy them then come to the forums and complain.
Remember, ranged has a 10-15m buffer zone to keep the warrior at bay. If you succeed, not even riftwalk/planarblade or even his spears can help him.
My cool story
Just had some bleeds, slip-away, burst rogue troll me about being OP.
He applies debuff from stealth, saps, drops me to half hp before bleeds wear off, then finishes me off.
The whole time he's calling me: OP, a kid, trash, 1-2 button macros, and that he's making a video.
Prior to that I had some random warrior ask me about my spec. I told him I spec'd dps and zero survivability.
I also don't use SnB loadequips and have been playing this RB/champ/0vk for a grand total of half an hour.
The damage is high, but nowhere near the OPness that rogue puts out.
His closing statement was that "you think warriors are fine" and apparently he was mad about that. He was singling me out in back to back WFs to troll with. Never heard of this guy before, but apparently he plays at 4am where the only reason I'm on is because I didn't do pvp daily until that last match that took 30 mins to open.
I had been playing SnB 44 rb, 12 pally, 10 reaver (that I made up) most of 1.8 because I can do pvp and pve with it nicely, but the damage is way lower than the 2h specs out there.
To get high damage, you need heals, and you don't get that on your own. You need a healer and shield macros to be viable vs rogues. Rogues are easiest class in the game for single target. I don't know how anyone can make an argument about warriors when they have had it so easy from day 1. They have at least 3 OP specs right now. Warriors have 1, and even that isn't OP. It's normal damage with crap survivability. You HAVE to kill fast or you die. Y U NO COMPRENDE'?
The reward/risk ratio of some of these full dps warrior builds is through the roof right now.
They keep crying about their survivability yet most of them have around 9-10k health which is already about 2-3k more then I have as a full dps rogue. Sure my burst is insane when I'm against someone who doesn't have a lot of armor or reductions (basically MM's die and people with lesser gear then me). But there are plenty of targets around that basically sustain themselves for more then 5 seconds because either they reduce a lot or they heal (even with 50% debuff). Which means that I have to rely on my own inferior survivability to get the remainder down.
I lose half my health just for walking past a warrior while I'm in stealth when he is currently unleashing his AoE wrath on single target. That and insta crit ~1.5k damaging builders kinda do me in a few seconds. If I'm lucky Ill get him to below 50% with my first wave of dots. I can't stay in because I'll die in seconds if he as much as looks at me. I don't mind warriors doing superb burst damage but getting me to 25% health just after I aplied my first finisher is a little.. overboard, to be honest.
How it should be? Take a look at saboteurs, MASSIVE damage but they die in an instant if you breath on them. Warriors? Tanky dudes with the highest armor/health do almost the exact same amount of damage and should therefore get a survivability penalty against magic attacks to make up for it. There has to be a tradeoff somewhere for the amount of damage they are doing. You want the damage? Sure, but then you'll lose all resistances to magic in the proces. Making mages/clerics able to melt them just as fast. Still doesn't mean that I can handle them solo, but then at least my team can do it so I can focus on THEIR mages/clerics to prevent them from killing OUR warriors.
In the mean time I'm planning on making/using a anti-warrior rogue build. Don't care if I can't kill any other thing but them, but it's so worth it making their lives miserable. ';..;'
Ming, you seem reasonable, but this just doesn't seem right. On my Rank 20 Cleric, I've never been bursted down by a single warrior in 3-5 seconds, and I don't have near the gear you do it sounds like. Of course 3 dps spec warriors (or mages or rogues or and combo) and my rank 20 cleric melts fast naturally. I agree with you sometimes it doesn't take a lot longer than say 8-10 seconds, for the R40 warrior to burn down my little cleric, but the good mages and rogues do that too, and the rank 30+ healing clerics I play with/against still seem very survivable against one dps, for a long time (typically you can't kill them 1v1 in a normal warfront before the scenario changes, one team or the other has people join the fight).
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