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Thread: C'mon. We all know it's planar blade.

  1. #1
    Rift Master
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    Default C'mon. We all know it's planar blade.

    This happens all the time in these games.

    A seemingly innocuous talent (say, a teleport for a melee class on a 45 second cool down) is modified by another talent in a somewhat nebulous fashion (refreshes on crit) and becomes brutally, obviously, and irrefutably overpowered... only people don't seem very upset about it because there seems to be some misguided notion that a collection of related talents working together isn't as bad as just one truly OP talent standing alone.

    That's an arbitrary distinction.

    What if, instead of having three talents costing four points, riftblade warriors simply had one talent (costing the same four points) allowing them to reliably teleport to their target every 3-4 seconds? That just sounds stupidly OP, right? But that is exactly what the current combination of talents enables riftblade warriors to do in pvp on live right now.

    So is it the phrasing? The delivery method? Why is something this stupidly broken, and especially now given warrior dps has been fixed and/or overtuned, not a gigantic issue?

  2. #2
    Ascendant Ajax1114's Avatar
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    Cause we have double flicker and squirrel, which make melee rage, so they want something that will take their pain away.

  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara Testercules's Avatar
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    Most of the time I'm running Blade of Elemental Affinity or I'd be getting destroyed by ranged.
    Neither of the blades are overpowered because they are both purgeable. Whereas the rogue's shifting abilities aren't buffs, but cds. The mages are cds.
    Warriors are incredibly weak when purged. If a warrior plays a purge spec, their dps blows sub r40 PLUS hit weapons.

    Basically you're saying you can't get away from a warrior when you have a 10-15 yard ranged advantage over them. Not everyone is as bad as that.
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  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Leoknife's Avatar
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    I have seen both mages and rogues put enough space between my warrior(p27) and them so that my 2nd teleport to them can't be done.

    Clerics on the other hand need some better escape from melee warriors at this time.

    If you can't put enough distance between you and the warrior, you are playing your mage or Marksman toon wrong.

    I know from experience. I have a level 50 Mage(p13) and a level 50 Rogue (p40), and rift walking / Bull Charging warriors are not a problem to keep at range.

    But I feel for the clerics. With the healing nerf they cant outheal the damage either. Before the face tanking clerics against 3 DPS was a bit over the top, but a cleric should be able to face tank 1 DPS, and perhaps 2 if the cleric is very good.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Zaros's Avatar
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    I don't think what we want is a Planar Blade nerf.

    It's what Kaspurtz said in his pre-1.8 Riftblade testing video.
    One of the main strengths of Riftblade in PvP is utility. Roots, silences, self healing, speed/mobility/damage procs--it isn't meant to be an in-your-face damage dealer. It's meant to be a slightly less in-your-face damage dealer, with a lot more utility to it's name.

    Just a ~10% nerf to Riftblade damage across the board is most likely what we want.
    ~Quiescent

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    Ascendant batou079's Avatar
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    Every patch, no matter the nerfs or buffs, it is like an automatic reaction to complain about warriors and spam constant threads about it. YAYY!!! Warriors where too much plate, my arrows cannot get through their armor. >_<

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  7. #7
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batou079 View Post
    Every patch, no matter the nerfs or buffs, it is like an automatic reaction to complain about warriors and spam constant threads about it. YAYY!!! Warriors where too much plate, my arrows cannot get through their armor. >_<
    Ranged are made that in their pve game there is one part where they can't fall asleep like they're tickling dragons.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    C'mon now. Anyone that's been on these forums for a while knows what's going on here.
    A class needs some love. The devs do so but overextend their buff wand, or the synergy between the soul trees from the devs’ tweak ends up being too sweat.
    Other classes start to scream foul. Many people playing the affected class try to fend off any suggestion to normalize. Finally, Trion releases a hotfix that may or may not needs a follow up hotfix.

    This time around, it’s the warriors turn. I say enjoy it while it lasts
    Last edited by VHawk; 04-27-2012 at 02:11 PM.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Ajax1114's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batou079 View Post
    Every patch, no matter the nerfs or buffs, it is like an automatic reaction to complain about warriors and spam constant threads about it.
    This is just not true and you know it.


    At any rate, I agree with Zaros. I don't want warriors to be stripped of their best gap closer without some compensation in other areas of melee design, but RB damage does need to be toned down.

  10. #10
    Plane Walker
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    Warrs buzz off with your "its purgable" excuse. Really.
    Last edited by Sonic Rain Boom; 04-28-2012 at 07:43 AM. Reason: Language

  11. #11
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaros View Post
    I don't think what we want is a Planar Blade nerf.

    It's what Kaspurtz said in his pre-1.8 Riftblade testing video.
    One of the main strengths of Riftblade in PvP is utility. Roots, silences, self healing, speed/mobility/damage procs--it isn't meant to be an in-your-face damage dealer. It's meant to be a slightly less in-your-face damage dealer, with a lot more utility to it's name.

    Just a ~10% nerf to Riftblade damage across the board is most likely what we want.
    Except all those tools are useless in the current dr scheme, not to mention the minus silence time consumable (what genius thought that one up) and the anti cc pas (again.... makes cc even more useless). Riftblade damage in general doesnt need a tone down, what does is a couple abilities (*cough*rift storm*cough*). Further, currently our ONLY defense is killing you first, so if a damage tone down is in order, so are defensive and get the heck outta dodge mobility cds (thunderous leaps our only one atm).

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple BlackSpikes's Avatar
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    because trion felt like it.
    Theblackspikes: Only a bit more than just another lvl 60 Mage
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  13. #13
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    If this was to get nerfed and nothing else buffed ( gap closing ) i would want warriors to actualy have more hp than mages/rogues by a noticeable amount so that IF we ever got in range we had a chance because a 11 point bullrush (11 to be able to be used in combat) and a 45 second cooldown riftwalk?(also takes 20 points in riftblade) LOL seriously?

    And yes i have seen mages with 8.5-9k hp that blow me up in this warrior build in 5 seconds, honestly alot of these people need to go try this out for themselves vs rank 40 mage/rogues and see how squishy it really is and as for some1 pocket healing you, yes it will destroy, but if there was a rogue or a mage with heals focused on them it would be the same story

    As for teleporting all the time how about being a squirrel instantly all the time
    Last edited by Hotness; 04-27-2012 at 05:50 PM.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    ''It's balanced because it's purgable''
    i) Besides Eradicate(which is largely questionable as overpowered in itself), all purges only remove 1-3 buffs, with a lengthy cool-down. Due to the first-in, first-out purging rule this means that on average it will result in taking 3 purges to even reach Planar blade, which may well take over half a minute for most classes.
    ii) Assuming the Warrior isn't an idiot, (which we shall assume, since we are assuming he is purged, which will only happen by a non-idiot), then it's as simple as pressing Planar blade once, which will re-bury it under more than likely 5-10 newly received combat buffs.

    If the only defence for being imba is the fact that it's purgable - though as I have clearly demonstrated, the majority of purges are lacking to reliably purge it, - we have two options:

    1) Buff all purges to Eradicate status
    2) Nerf Planar blade

    Considering the amount of QQ with the current form of Eradicate, it's clear option 1 is not the correct choice.

    Purgeable argument discarded


    Awaiting further unintelligent and biased defences, I will tear them apart.
    Valery@Zaviel - Mage | Valzz - Cleric | Soulsky - Rogue | Introvert - Warrior
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  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer Sebb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by handerhank View Post
    This happens all the time in these games.

    A seemingly innocuous talent (say, a teleport for a melee class on a 45 second cool down) is modified by another talent in a somewhat nebulous fashion (refreshes on crit) and becomes brutally, obviously, and irrefutably overpowered... only people don't seem very upset about it because there seems to be some misguided notion that a collection of related talents working together isn't as bad as just one truly OP talent standing alone.

    That's an arbitrary distinction.

    What if, instead of having three talents costing four points, riftblade warriors simply had one talent (costing the same four points) allowing them to reliably teleport to their target every 3-4 seconds? That just sounds stupidly OP, right? But that is exactly what the current combination of talents enables riftblade warriors to do in pvp on live right now.
    You really don't understand the difference?

    Let me explain it real quick:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/ability/788308251/Eradicate
    http://rift.zam.com/en/ability/2053902436/Purge
    http://rift.zam.com/en/ability/1981681650/Spell-Sunder
    http://rift.zam.com/en/ability/600104832/Degeneration

    See how each class has a way to completely negate this "OP" ability. If it were a native ability that couldn't be countered, I could agree it may be OP.

    You must be newer to this game. There was a time when every warrior didn't use planar blade in pvp. Instead, they had tools that they could reliably use to keep in melee range and have wardens bunny hopping around the battle field water jetting them to death.

    http://rift.zam.com/en/ability/1972667306/Leg-Sweep
    http://rift.zam.com/en/ability/1320952037/Freeze-Armor
    http://rift.zam.com/en/ability/5000000275/Overrun

    Then in the great CC killing patch, all this went away. Nobody could be reliably cc'd, so these tools left the warrior ability bar. However, the tight requirement for melee range still remained. A single knock back, or simply the warrior moving left for a split second while the target moved right, would render the warrior completely unable to damage his/her opponent while being subjected to instant cast range abilities that could easily kill the warrior. Bull Rush? Too bad that you are brought to where the target WAS, not where it will be. By the time the warrior is able to move after bull rush the target would be out of melee range as it is.

    So you see, the DR killer was a double edged sword for all classes. It turned pvp from a CC metagame to a purge metagame. Learn your class, learn how to purge and when to purge.


    To all those who say that "purge is not an argument":

    It's the same argument used any time a warrior complains about something. Rogue buffs make them OP gods? Purge after porting. Heat Retention allows a rogue to blazing strike me for 2500? Should have purged it. Wardens unkillable? Purge the hots. Mages smacking you in the face with insta CB? Should have purged it.

    Until the range/melee imablance is fixed, PB will be a real crutch for warriors. 1.5 really killed pvp balance because, while rogues were brought to equal viability, it made the vast majority of them range classes. When 12 of the 15 people in a match are playing a range class, the melee class becomes easy focus targets. I know it's not the most logical of things, but people are logical. They will focus down the target that up close and personal - if it's a hard hitting RB or champion or a pillow smacking tank. You may come back and say "smart warriors hang back and kill people that attack their back lines blah blah blah" but Trion claims Warriors are to be "Front-line combatants without peer". That isn't how the game is set up right now. Sadly planar blade will be the spec of choice. Fools that don't know how to purge it will continue to QQ instead of adapting.
    Last edited by Sebb; 04-27-2012 at 06:19 PM.
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