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Thread: Mage Problems

  1. #1
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    Default Mage Problems

    A few issues with mages atm:

    Our best specs revolve around Dominator, specifically the 21pts needed to make Transmogrify instant, no cooldown, and give a haste buff for 5s. While this is a reasonably fun mechanic, I think we're tied too much to this one ability which is unreliable because of Diminished Returns. If enemies are immune, and they can become immune very quickly, our DPS drops dramatically. I think that it's unhealthy for mages to have their PvP viability hinging on a single ability this way, and should have another soul combination be brought up to a viable level (such as Necro or Lock)

    A bigger issue is our health pool, and damage mitigation. Every other class has a tanking soul and as such has access to talents that increase their health and reduce their damage taken, either by modifiers or some other form of mitigation. This leads to situations where not only can other classes take less physical damage but also less magical damage than a mage, but they also have significantly higher health pools and all the while output comparable DPS.

    What mages need is a soul that gives us the same kind of benefits as other classes tanking souls. Chloromancer or Elementalist would be a natural place to do this.

    I'm not saying mages don't have their moments, they do, but we're entirely too reliant on a single ability and just too squishy right now. Other classes output similar damage but aren't nearly as squishy, so where is our trade off for having less health and less mitigation? It certainly isn't in our damage.
    Last edited by Tarien; 04-27-2012 at 05:58 AM.

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    A few issues with mages atm:

    Our best specs revolve around Dominator, specifically the 21pts needed to make Transmogrify instant, no cooldown, and give a haste buff for 5s. While this is a reasonably fun mechanic, I think we're tied too much to this one ability which is unreliable because of Diminished Returns. If enemies are immune, and they can become immune very quickly, our DPS drops dramatically. I think that it's unhealthy for mages to have their PvP viability hinging on a single ability this way, and should have another soul combination be brought up to a viable level (such as Necro or Lock)
    Whats to say.....

    Im a big fan of Mages and i admit we struggle without the dominator tree. However i find your logic in mitigation pretty flawed. Its easy for a dps mage to hit 9k hp in a dps spec. We have around the mitigation i would expect for a caster class, heres a few examples.

    Chloro has a shield and hp boost talent, Pyro has 2 shields and flicker, Elementalist has Essence link(global 10% damage reduction), warlock has a hp boost talent. There are others.

    Regarding the DR problem with CC, you need to start target switching. Trans your target, 5 sec casts, trans again, 5 sec casts now you need to switch. Target an alternate enemy, switch back, 5 sec casts. If they are not dead by then, you probably will be.

    I also generally prefer the combination of pyromancers armour and opportunity to constantly squirrelling but thats just me.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    yeah mages hp is too low plz buff

    http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5...0421003902.jpg

    Now let's add ember steak and shadow life..
    Valery@Zaviel - Mage | Valzz - Cleric | Soulsky - Rogue | Introvert - Warrior
    Everything you need to know for Mage: www.valvalval.net

  4. #4
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    Mage mitigation and hp is fine. You have ridiculous amount of tools to help you stay where you should be.

    1.8 puts an emphasis on positioning. No more face tanking.
    Last edited by spaceboots; 04-27-2012 at 07:14 AM.

  5. #5
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    Ha! Sorry but mages cannot escape the grasps of a melee that can charge/stun/silence and only option we have is to Disarm/Sheep while other classes have i believe 3 break free type abilities.

    Ever got a melee class to start chewing on your arse? You have to many dimenishing CC abilities with no way of knowing if target is immune to CC and dosnt help now that warriors are 1 shotting mages on site. Think the current specs weither it be Pyro which we need for dps/flicker, chloro for heals but cannot out heal any classes incoming damage.

    Might just have to work with Warlock/Ele Builds to help with some physcial damage mitigation.

    Wtb Planar Attunment for different souls. Trion is punishing PVE players that like to PVP

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser kronous's Avatar
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    you dont need dominator to be effective at pvp

  7. #7
    Telaran Izraels queso's Avatar
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    Me wants old warlock back!!! Warriors are having their fun, so keep them at this level but unnerf DS and all the other nerfs that may apply to 51 warlock.(basically unnerfing the whole soul) Ok maybe some may need to stay but still having DS not get an instant tick kind of defeats the purpose of it being an aoe. (Hey look stuff on the ground! *moves*). Just kind of wish warlock was still how it used to be.
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  8. #8
    Sword of Telara utterchaos's Avatar
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    Tanks specs are defensive which means the person give a certain amount of dps for survival.

    We have a tank spec in warlock

    multiple cooldowns, extra health, stuns, cc, slowing effects

    healing effects: life leech,draining bolt(not amazing but still every little bit of healing helps)

    now pair it with chloro
    healing effects, withering vine insta, int to end talent for health

    toss in some necro for healing debuffs and cosumption and a extra dot

    Even if your stuff is getting removed via dispel, it means a mm or healer are burning globals to do it. In team play that means they aren't dpsing or healing someone. This allows your teammates to focus the support players on the other team. Tab targetting isn't always the effect way to go, pick and choose who you want to put pressure on to force the other team to change their game play or lose.

    Depends on your playstyle as well, i know alot of people do well with control style of play that dom has, paired with pyro, but your not forced to play something.
    I want to see the light leave your eyes
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kronous View Post
    you dont need dominator to be effective at pvp
    ^^ this

    I run pyrocon.

    I would not give up my 10 points in this tree for anything.

    In archon build, I get a return on my mana when I crit. My build is built around crits.

    I still feel al ittle guilty criting on Cinder burst for 1.2K+ at level 29 still...

    But oh well, I get over it fast

  10. #10
    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    Mage mitigation and hp is fine. You have ridiculous amount of tools to help you stay where you should be.

    1.8 puts an emphasis on positioning. No more face tanking.
    You mean 45 meters range out of the fight so the Warrior can't Thunderous leap then bull rush you then Rift walk every 3 seconds.

    I don't think I've read one reply from you that wasn't false.
    Valery@Zaviel - Mage | Valzz - Cleric | Soulsky - Rogue | Introvert - Warrior
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tevikolady View Post
    ^^ this

    I run pyrocon.

    I would not give up my 10 points in this tree for anything.

    In archon build, I get a return on my mana when I crit. My build is built around crits.

    I still feel al ittle guilty criting on Cinder burst for 1.2K+ at level 29 still...

    But oh well, I get over it fast
    at level 29 still...

  12. #12
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    My Pvp heal spec has 0 dom and it is by far the most survivable mage spec I've seen. Think outside the box.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pett View Post
    Chloro has a shield and hp boost talent, Pyro has 2 shields and flicker, Elementalist has Essence link(global 10% damage reduction), warlock has a hp boost talent. There are others.

    Regarding the DR problem with CC, you need to start target switching. Trans your target, 5 sec casts, trans again, 5 sec casts now you need to switch. Target an alternate enemy, switch back, 5 sec casts. If they are not dead by then, you probably will be.
    The trouble is that all these mitigation talents are spread through a number of trees, and even if let us say we consolidated them into a single tree, we would be sacrificing damage in order to get them which would leave us equivalent to other classes for hp and mitigation but subpar for damage. Either bump our damage or bump our survivability. We're meant to be glass cannons, not glass pea shooters (over simplification to make a point).

    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    yeah mages hp is too low plz buff

    http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5...0421003902.jpg

    Now let's add ember steak and shadow life..
    How about we discuss norms and not extreme cases of some muppet stacking endurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    Mage mitigation and hp is fine. You have ridiculous amount of tools to help you stay where you should be.

    1.8 puts an emphasis on positioning. No more face tanking.
    Really? Why do you have better physical and magical mitigation as a tank, with comparable DPS and tools to close gaps that are significantly better than my tools to escape? Should we perhaps give mages a 20yd knockback whenever they crit, because that is essentially what warriors have now except in reverse.

    Quote Originally Posted by kronous View Post
    you dont need dominator to be effective at pvp
    51pt Pyro is not too bad though once you burn Heat Wave that is it, your burst is gone for the next minute and a half or more, and if you cannot burst in PvP as a DPS you're at a significant disadvantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by utterchaos View Post
    Tanks specs are defensive which means the person give a certain amount of dps for survival.
    Except they aren't. Tell me how RS/NB is sacrificing DPS for survivability, or a RB/tank hybrid warrior.

    Quote Originally Posted by utterchaos View Post
    We have a tank spec in warlock

    multiple cooldowns, extra health, stuns, cc, slowing effects

    healing effects: life leech,draining bolt(not amazing but still every little bit of healing helps)

    now pair it with chloro
    healing effects, withering vine insta, int to end talent for health

    toss in some necro for healing debuffs and cosumption and a extra dot
    Except that the DPS is awful, has no burst, and most of the healing and cooldowns can be interrupted, purged or mitigated by healing debuffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by utterchaos View Post
    Depends on your playstyle as well, i know alot of people do well with control style of play that dom has, paired with pyro, but your not forced to play something.
    No one is forcing marathon runners to have two working legs but if you want to be competitive that is the requirement. No one is forcing me to play any spec, but if I want to be competitive and enjoy the game (because losing over and over is not fun, news at ten) then there are very limited specs available. ChloroLock is not one of them. Chloro is a joke even after the 15% healing buff, and Trion have suggested that they have no intention of bringing the soul up to the level of Cleric healing and survivability.

    Quote Originally Posted by tevikolady View Post
    I run pyrocon at level 29 still
    Come back at 50 and we'll talk. No offence but mages are actually pretty OP in the middle levels. Endgame is a completely different ball game.

    Quote Originally Posted by redrox View Post
    My Pvp heal spec has 0 dom and it is by far the most survivable mage spec I've seen. Think outside the box.
    Care to share or are we just flapping our lips making grandiose statements?

  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by tevikolady View Post
    ^^ this

    I run pyrocon.

    I would not give up my 10 points in this tree for anything.

    In archon build, I get a return on my mana when I crit. My build is built around crits.

    I still feel al ittle guilty criting on Cinder burst for 1.2K+ at level 29 still...

    But oh well, I get over it fast

    You are talking level 29 PvP, the game is quite different when you get out of the kiddie leagues. Although I don't think you NEED to have dom it is part of like 75% of the viable mage specs.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by redrox View Post
    My Pvp heal spec has 0 dom and it is by far the most survivable mage spec I've seen. Think outside the box.
    Lemme guess: Chloro/Ele/Archon OR Chloro/Warlock/Archon :P
    Last edited by Acelsg; 04-27-2012 at 09:54 AM.

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