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Thread: Any interest in pvp guides for 30-39?

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    jca
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    Default Any interest in pvp guides for 30-39?

    Before putting in the work to do it, I'm wondering if there is any interest in this.

    I play a couple of the more well known twinks in 30-39 (moomoohaha and moomootoo). I'm very successful with both these toons and often get asked by less experienced players about specs, abilities, gear etc. I'm always willing to help out and will spend as much time helping out as a player is willing/able to absorb.

    These guides wouldn't be for twinks, they already know what they're doing for the most part, but rather for new players (or at least newer to pvp) to help them get a handle on things and be better able to compete. Contrary to what some people keep posting, I for one (and most of the "twinks" I know) prefer the more competitive games and anything that can be done to get everyone up to speed, the better and more enjoyable wf's are.

    So is there interest in this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jca View Post
    Before putting in the work to do it, I'm wondering if there is any interest in this.

    I play a couple of the more well known twinks in 30-39 (moomoohaha and moomootoo). I'm very successful with both these toons and often get asked by less experienced players about specs, abilities, gear etc. I'm always willing to help out and will spend as much time helping out as a player is willing/able to absorb.

    These guides wouldn't be for twinks, they already know what they're doing for the most part, but rather for new players (or at least newer to pvp) to help them get a handle on things and be better able to compete. Contrary to what some people keep posting, I for one (and most of the "twinks" I know) prefer the more competitive games and anything that can be done to get everyone up to speed, the better and more enjoyable wf's are.

    So is there interest in this?
    That would be generous of you. If you make any I would supplement with 39 Clerics/Mage twink guides too.

    Not to mention that level 30 bracket dps/heals is very different from 50. There are some key differences in strats/tactic unique to the bracket that I wish every New member of the 30's bracket were aware of.

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    Seriously I look at 'twinks' as a great way to repopulate lower level warfronts.

    I think a guide for players that have not pvp'd their way through gaming is a good idea.

    Level 39 battlegrounds in EQ2 were the bomb, I'm hoping lvl lockers will settle on a tier and it will be good, fun, competitive PvP.

    Do it.


    Den of Madness | Greybriar | Den of Badness | Derpwood

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    Soulwalker
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    Whats up Moo!

    I have recently xp locked at 39, and I am very interested in this thread for a couple reasons... I have only played Rift for 2 weeks and I have never pvp'd in an mmo before. My problem is that I have only played a mage so far, and I don't know the strengths and weaknesses of other classes like yourself.

    I have sort of figured out survivability, but have found 2 things that make me utterly useless... Silence and Reduced healing by 50%. I have flicker to counter the silence, but I don't even know what the debuff's are called that reduce healing, which makes it difficult for me to know when to start cleansing myself.

    I have also found that I can survive you if I catch you off guard, but when you catch me of guard, there is no way for me to survive. What class do you play, and what do I need to be aware of with your class to counter it sometimes?

    Do you use any addon's for certain debuffs? Do I need to purge something off warriors and rogues to better survive?

    Below is my current spec, and I find I have good survivability, and provide "some" healing to the team.
    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#emyl150/Fhl0/ik8w

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    jca
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaiden View Post
    Whats up Moo!

    I have recently xp locked at 39, and I am very interested in this thread for a couple reasons... I have only played Rift for 2 weeks and I have never pvp'd in an mmo before. My problem is that I have only played a mage so far, and I don't know the strengths and weaknesses of other classes like yourself.

    I have sort of figured out survivability, but have found 2 things that make me utterly useless... Silence and Reduced healing by 50%. I have flicker to counter the silence, but I don't even know what the debuff's are called that reduce healing, which makes it difficult for me to know when to start cleansing myself.

    I have also found that I can survive you if I catch you off guard, but when you catch me of guard, there is no way for me to survive. What class do you play, and what do I need to be aware of with your class to counter it sometimes?

    Do you use any addon's for certain debuffs? Do I need to purge something off warriors and rogues to better survive?

    Below is my current spec, and I find I have good survivability, and provide "some" healing to the team.
    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#emyl150/Fhl0/ik8w
    Hey Shaiden, if you've only been playing Rift for 2 weeks, I'm scared to think what you'll be with more practice !!! I have noted you in wf's and try to look out for you if I know you're around because I seem to remember getting absolutely nuked more than once by you ;)

    To answer your questions, on my warrior I've been playing 32 rb, 20 champ mostly as of late. This spec is a true glass cannon. It has little survivability if focused but hits like a truck. Your defense against this type of burst spec is just what you said, make sure you see him before he sees you and never let him get within 20 yards of you no matter what. If a riftblade gets on you, with Riftwalk and Planar Blade it becomes very very hard to get away but if you can keep him outside of 20 yards, you can nuke him down in short order.

    Position wise, something else to know is that when a Riftblade uses his silence (Windspear) he's most likely queue'd up Fork that makes it hit multiple targets (2 normally or 3 if spec'd for it). Since blue bars are this specs preferred target, if you're clumped up with other casters, there's a real good chance you're going to eat a silence (likely followed by a root - stonespear) even if the warrior is focusing someone else near you. So be aware of your spacing, especially in regards to healers. A warrior has to be spec'd 32 points into Riftblade to get windspear though, so you really want to look for the Planar Blade buff. If he doesn't show that buff he likely doesn't have windspear either. If you see the Ravenous Strength buff he's got points in Void Knight and most likely has a purge, so watch your own buffs when fighting a VK warrior.

    Something else you can do to Riftblade warriors (and nb/rs rogues as well) that will really ruin their day is to spec into a purge and when they aren't focusing you, purge them every time your cd is up. Both specs lose a lot of their potency if you can strip some key buffs. For Riftblades you're really trying to purge Planar Blade. That kills their refresh on Riftwalk and hurts their energy regen. I also believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that Rift Storm can be purged also, but you'd have to really be quick to get it off before the damage is already done.

    About disarms, be aware that disarming a warrior spec'd a few points into Reaver might not be the best use of a gcd. Blood Fever can be used when disarmed although too many warriors aren't aware of that. If you see the Binding of Affliction buff, they have Blood Fever. Silences however can really mess up Riftblade warriors because a lot of them don't think to macro non-magical attacks after their magical ones for just that contingency (note, I do however ).

    About the healing debuff, that's Lingering Wounds and it can't be cleansed so don't bother trying. Fell Blades from Nightblade rogues can be cleansed however although with the ease that it can be reapplied it may not always be worth the gcd either.

    As far as addons, I'm using myUI (I'm the author btw). It's available on RiftUI. It can be setup to monitor buffs/debuffs pretty much any way you want.

    Since you've locked I'm sure I'll be seeing a lot more of you soon

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    jca
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    Something else to add regarding Lingering Wounds ...

    Lingering Wounds requires 17 points into Champion so if you see the Slayer's Bearing buff, they have lingering wounds. If you see Soldier's Bearing then they're spec'd into Champ as well but you can't really tell how deeply.

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    For just a few small paragraphs, that is actually a lot to absorb. However, information like this, bit by bit, should improve my performance against warriors and rogues. One thing in particular is that against Riftblade warriors, I should be using natural conversion to absorb one of the magical attacks and heal myself at the same time. It didn't even dawn on me that some of there attacks would be considered spells. Does the idea of using Natural Conversion make sense? Does it apply to Reavers, certain Rogues?

    I have also decided to pick up a 2 second stun instead of a small heal from the lock tree so that I may keep my distance and try and control a 1v1 or 2v1 with stun, fear, snare. Will stunning a warrior during rift storm stop it, or is it too late at that point?

    You leave me with little hope in regards to countering Lingering Wounds and Fell Blades... Besides running away like my life depends on it, is there Anything I can do to up my survival rate when all my life leeches, withering vines, Lifegiving Veil, and blooms just BARELY do anything to keep me alive from you damn melee classes? Would Deny from the Dominator tree remove Lingering Wounds?

    Thank you, you have given me atleast a few days worth of thinking, adjusting, and practicing. In order to adjust, I will have to try yourUI So that I can spot debuffs AND buffs more efficiently. I think ultimately in the end though, is I would have to play all the classes to become really good with each.

    One last thing.... Do you think RiftStorm is a little overpowered?

  8. #8
    jca
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaiden View Post
    For just a few small paragraphs, that is actually a lot to absorb. However, information like this, bit by bit, should improve my performance against warriors and rogues. One thing in particular is that against Riftblade warriors, I should be using natural conversion to absorb one of the magical attacks and heal myself at the same time. It didn't even dawn on me that some of there attacks would be considered spells. Does the idea of using Natural Conversion make sense? Does it apply to Reavers, certain Rogues?

    I have also decided to pick up a 2 second stun instead of a small heal from the lock tree so that I may keep my distance and try and control a 1v1 or 2v1 with stun, fear, snare. Will stunning a warrior during rift storm stop it, or is it too late at that point?

    You leave me with little hope in regards to countering Lingering Wounds and Fell Blades... Besides running away like my life depends on it, is there Anything I can do to up my survival rate when all my life leeches, withering vines, Lifegiving Veil, and blooms just BARELY do anything to keep me alive from you damn melee classes? Would Deny from the Dominator tree remove Lingering Wounds?

    Thank you, you have given me atleast a few days worth of thinking, adjusting, and practicing. In order to adjust, I will have to try yourUI So that I can spot debuffs AND buffs more efficiently. I think ultimately in the end though, is I would have to play all the classes to become really good with each.

    One last thing.... Do you think RiftStorm is a little overpowered?
    Some of your questions I actually need to test to answer with 100% confidence but your last one is easy. Yes, Rift Storm is OP in it's current form. Prior to 1.8 it wasn't really worth taking unless you just needed to fill talents to get to 32. Since 1.8 it's silly OP. It'll be nerfed, the only question is whether it gets nerfed reasonably, or back into uselessness. Given Trions history I'd guess the later.

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    jca
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaiden View Post
    You leave me with little hope in regards to countering Lingering Wounds and Fell Blades... Besides running away like my life depends on it, is there Anything I can do to up my survival rate when all my life leeches, withering vines, Lifegiving Veil, and blooms just BARELY do anything to keep me alive from you damn melee classes? Would Deny from the Dominator tree remove Lingering Wounds?
    First about Fell Blades. In addition to a healing reduction, it also heals the rogue for 40% of the amount absorbed. NB/RS's have multiple ways to spread Fell Blades AoE-fashion so be very carefull about any AoE healing you might be doing. You're probably just keeping the rogue topped off.

    The good news is that the Fell Blades debuff is cleansable. The bad news is that it's very easily re-applied. It almost isn't worth cleansing until you're able to purge the Fell Blades buff from the rogue. There's bad news there as well though because it will almost always be buried under the multitude of buffs nb/rs has. There's some good new there though in that nb/rs is probably the most buff dependent spec in the game and almost any buff you purge off hurts a lot.

    If a rogue get's Fell Blades up on you, use any sort of shielding you can rather than direct heals. There are several rift consumables that provide shielding or absorbs that are inexpensive and worth keeping on hand for that purpose.

    As I said before Lingering Wounds can't be cleansed but at least it doesn't siphon any heals to the warrior. There isn't any buff that can be purged to remove the warrior's ability to apply it, but they do need to be spec'd deep enough into champion to get the ability.

    As will Fell Blades, shielding is more beneficial than heals if you have Lingering Wounds applied to you.

    In either case, you need to make a decision. You can't heal through the damage, so you either need to escape, or kill them first. Decide quickly and go all out at whichever choice you make. Changing tactics mid fight will result in you dying almost every time.

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    Soulwalker
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    Got ya!

    All you warriors on Defiant can Run, but you can't HIDE!

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    On a more serious note....

    I have to say competition in the 30-39 bracket the last few nights has been great! Thanks for stopping out last night MooMoo, was a lot of fun. All these other warriors were starting to make me yawn.

    P.S. Did you warriors just have a healer? Sorry... Just blew them up.

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    jca
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    Man, you've gotten real dangerous Shaiden. On the upside, after you countered several of my moves perfectly, it made me realize I was starting to get a bit predictable.

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    I have been getting trained from a few players on the Guardian side. Builds, scenario tactics, etc... All I can say is it has been a lot of fun, but I still got lots to learn.

    As far as being predictable, I don't think you were... It was fear and anxiety at first, then I calmed down a little bit, and realized your only just a little bit harder to kill than the good warriors :P

    Man you are fast. No room for mistakes.

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    Telaran
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    MooMoo! *Waves*

    Always a pleasure to PvP with/against you ^_^

    Out of all the brackets so far, I find 30-39 the hardest to compete in, but also the most enjoyable. Being a semi-undergeared cleric, the only way I seem to survive is with a full healing setup and shadowing stronger warriors. (Such as yourself.) I would prefer a Cab/Inq soul in there somewhere, but like I said trying to add Dps of any sort seems to reduce my survivability to nothing.

    Any tips for me? How can I avoid drawing attention (And getting those dreaded marks O_O) while still healing? How can I break out the stun/silence lock that just about every warrior/rogue build seems to carry?

    Any and all help is greatly appreciated!

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    jca
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axdin View Post
    MooMoo! *Waves*

    Always a pleasure to PvP with/against you ^_^

    Out of all the brackets so far, I find 30-39 the hardest to compete in, but also the most enjoyable. Being a semi-undergeared cleric, the only way I seem to survive is with a full healing setup and shadowing stronger warriors. (Such as yourself.) I would prefer a Cab/Inq soul in there somewhere, but like I said trying to add Dps of any sort seems to reduce my survivability to nothing.

    Any tips for me? How can I avoid drawing attention (And getting those dreaded marks O_O) while still healing? How can I break out the stun/silence lock that just about every warrior/rogue build seems to carry?

    Any and all help is greatly appreciated!
    Hi Axdin

    This is something of a tough bracket for clerics. Damage outpaces healing by a good margin and the two most dangerous specs (rb/ch, nb/rs) both have heal debuffs and are pretty common with no eradicate to frustrate them. Even with a full heal spec, you cannot face tank any of the stronger players. Whether healing or dps, your survivability will come from positioning and situational awareness. Shadien from the pervious few posts has gotten very good with his positioning. Hopefully he'll chime in with some tips for you as well.

    For ranged dps (anyone playing melee dps on a cleric in this bracket is doing it very very wrong) basically go Inquisitor or go home. Subbing into Justicar really doesn't add any survivability in this bracket. I've tried going deep into cab and it just doesn't have enough burst at this level to drop anyone. Maybe someone else can make it work, but I haven't been able to. Just like my warrior dps spec, your best defensive option is killing them before they kill you although having a couple quick heals available are great for topping off between one target and the next. Use either Sentinel or Cab for your second soul, going for dps talents over survivability talents. Inquisitors have the ability to burst down just about anyone, although they're somewhat subject to BoD procs.

    You can burst with the best mages but you don't have many of the defensive tools that pyros or doms have. Keep warriors at a distance by pre-kiting to maintain your range advantage. Don't wait unit you see one coming after you. If the melee scrum is getting close to you, stop what you're doing, even if your target is almost dead, and re-position back outside 20 yards.

    Stealthed rogues are tough because you can't pre-kite them to keep distance. You do have a handful of escape tools but DR is your enemy. Priority one is to try to get create a gap. Your knockback or fear are good for this. If both those are on CD, cheap mirror rift consumables can buy you a moment as well. If it's an assassin, they'll most likely be slowed as well. Depending on spec, nb's will also have a slow on you. Other than their stealth opener nb's don't have a stun but can stick to you like glue. Assassins will have two out of stealth stuns, blinding powder and foul play. Blinding powder breaks on damage so is the least dangerous. They can still damage you during foul play though. Keep some healing tonics on hand. If jumped by an assassin, get a tonic going asap to help ride out the damage during foul play and also mitigate much of their bleed damage.

    On a positive note, there are a lot of really bad rogues out there who will use incapacitate/lost hope on you before they open. If you're lucky and they're really bad, they'll do it twice. They've just effectively started DR on you which gives you a much better chance to survive.

    If you see a nb/rs out of stealth, ruin their day and use your purge on them every time it's off CD. If you see unstealthed assassins, make sure to get DoT's up on them. For any type of rogue, if you spec for Curse of Discord, with their 1 second gcd, they'll frequently not notice it and kill themselves, saving you the trouble ;)

    You've got the right idea about healing. Find the biggest, baddest warrior you can and stick on their hip. If there aren't any strong warriors find a nb/rs rogue. Keeping a geared 39 warrior up will most often have more impact than keeping multiple less dangerous players up. The other benefit of this is that most of the 39's know a thing or two about pvp and following them will most often lead you to the most important parts of a given wf and those side heals you're throwing out to others will also do the most good.

    A few tips if you're going to pocket heal a powerful dps toon; first and foremost, make sure they know you're doing it. In the heat of battle, most don't know where those heals are coming from but if they know you've got their back, they should be keeping an eye on you as well. If they don't, then find someone else to heal who does. Also, don't hesitate in the slightest to yell out "wait, i need to drink" if you need to.

    Next, as much as possible, try to pocket heal the same player in multiple warfronts. I know as a warrior, when I start seeing the same person following me around for several warfronts, I start developing a better awareness of where they are likely to be, how much heat they can take before you drop whatever you're doing and shoot back to their side, etc.

    While focusing on your primary heal target, don't neglect yourself. You're still your #1 heal priority. You do nobody any good if you're dead and even if your dps partner notices you taking heat, you're still going to have to be able to eat a little damage before they can get back to you. Again, mirror rift consumables are very handy for buying yourself that extra bit of time.

    Learn the abilities of your primary heal targets so you know the types of peals they might have to help you. Watch for them throwing out that stun, fear, slow, etc. That's your queue to stop what you're doing and get a few yards distance as fast as you can so your partner can start melting your attacker with you out of melee range.

    I've been lucky enough to have a handful of clerics that I run into frequently who I know have my back. A player named Whitespy is an exceptional pocket healer and I've played with him enough I think I have a real good feel for where he's going to be, what his capabilities, are, etc. Hopefully he's on these boards and can chime in with a few tips. Also know, that once people realize you're keeping that monster up, you will get a nice fat mark on your head, so even though you're riding the pain train, still position and play defensively.

    Well, looks like I've gotten long-winded. Most of this is from the perspective of the "healee" as I'm a rather poor "healer" when I play my cleric. Hopefully some more dedicated clerics can chime in with more tips and specifics for you.

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