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Thread: The problem with Warrior damage

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    Ascendant Hartzekar's Avatar
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    Default The problem with Warrior damage

    It's not the damage at all. The spec that's destroying people lately is RB-heavy. These specs, with oGCD finishers, ranged attacks, gap closer(s), self heals, and counter-offensive passives, are only doing slightly less damage then 51 Champion. 51 Champion has no ranged attacks, 2 oGCD reactives, and one gap closer on a 15s CD. The problem with this is that RB offers MUCH higher utility for a minimal damage loss. The damage of Champion should be kept, because it has a serious weakness against ANYTHING ranged (I've kited a Champion in a 51 Paragon spec). RB damage should be reduced slightly, to compensate for the insane utility.




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    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartzekar View Post
    It's not the damage at all. The spec that's destroying people lately is RB-heavy. These specs, with oGCD finishers, ranged attacks, gap closer(s), self heals, and counter-offensive passives, are only doing slightly less damage then 51 Champion. 51 Champion has no ranged attacks, 2 oGCD reactives, and one gap closer on a 15s CD. The problem with this is that RB offers MUCH higher utility for a minimal damage loss. The damage of Champion should be kept, because it has a serious weakness against ANYTHING ranged (I've kited a Champion in a 51 Paragon spec). RB damage should be reduced slightly, to compensate for the insane utility.




    Signed, a warrior who is sick and feels dirty while playing Riftblade
    I don't think the damage should be changed, I think Planar blade should be changed. With the damage output warriors have now, it is a bit nuts to have a spec that can refresh a gap closer on a crit. Not sure what they should do to replace that, or just make it shorten the CD of the teleport by a bit, every crit then once used it starts over and the warrior must crit multiple times to shorten the CD. /shrug. Not sure, I don't use RB i use 51champ/15 para mainly because heavy RB has become a bit cheese, I love our damage but I strongly think that we should be kiteable, or destroy once we close the distance vs ranged attackers.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple
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    I don't know jack about warriors but rift storm needs to be toned down a notch. I'm not sure if this skill has been buffed recently or not but together with warden healing nerfs, it just doesnt work.
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    Ascendant Soul sky's Avatar
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    Yesterday a 51champ hit me for 1200 1200 1200 1200 cornered beast... then the following attacks did 1800 2200 1400 1800 on my 1250 valor. I'm ok with this as knockbacks etc can be used to effectively reduce the damage and the only reason that kind of damage happened to me is because I had other opponents snaring me.

    But it's saddening that 1 year into the game Trion still lets Riftblade teleport on average every 3-4 seconds with no effective counter. All arguments like 'l2purge' are irrelevant because, assuming equal skill levels, the Warrior can just rebuff after being purged, and his planar blade is now behind 5+ fluff buffs. Or, more likely, planar blade won't ever be purged if he's smart enough to apply Planar Blade last in the respawn area.

    Also inb4noobthatsays: 'keep 20+ meters'. Yesterday a Warrior used thunderous leap then Bull rush to gap close something like 35 meters whilst rooted. Start casting a spell from 30 meters? Rift walk/bull rushed before your cast is 1/3 completed.

    But you know what? I don't care that Warriors can hit like a truck. I don't care if they can teleport to me every 3 seconds. I do care, however, that there is no equivalent ranged opener that will effectively counter this obnoxious gapcloser.

    The solution, to me, would be to simply take Knockbacks off the DR system. Snares off the DR would be imbalanced considering both Rogue and Warrior melee have spammable uncleansable ranged snares whilst Cleric and Mage can only remove these effects like once every 30-60 seconds.

    But just imagine if Flicker/Retreat reset on crit. There would be an outrage...
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    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    I know planar blade sucks, but anyone complaining about it is forgetting we are melee in a game with no cc.
    And yea rift storm needs to be toned down a tad since you can still attack while using the ability, unlike channeled cornered beast.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    And yea rift storm needs to be toned down a tad since you can still attack while using the ability, unlike channeled cornered beast.
    I guess all warriors might as well get rift storm and start using it. i mean, i dont mind putting up with this for a set period of time aka warriors go have your fotm, possibly long overdue, but it would be nice to hear some changes coming on the way in terms of modifiing the dmg to an acceptable level.

    maybe they should reduce it by 75% like warden hots...see how that goes
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    Plane Walker bear_on_the_job's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okooko View Post
    I don't know jack about warriors but rift storm needs to be toned down a notch. I'm not sure if this skill has been buffed recently or not but together with warden healing nerfs, it just doesnt work.
    All of the top tier AOE finishers (Rift Storm, Cornered Beast, Flurry) got buffed, and are all very powerful now. Rift Storm is actually the weakest of them, Cornered Beast does about 2x as much damage to mages and rogues, about 1.5x as much to clerics, and evens out against other warriors (unless they have a shield).

    The Planar Blade/Riftwalk combo, and gap closers in general are hard to balance. In a game like this where a mage can have the same HP as a warrior, the same mitigation, and equivalent or more CC, why is it so wrong for a warrior to have consistent access to gap closers? In that magic zone between 30m and 20m, a mage is going to get off at least one shot (maybe more if they squirrel you). That usually means 1k+ damage before you can do anything to them. After that, any time they can get a disconnect between you and them, that's more effective mitigation time where you are doing either no damage, or reduced damage (warrior ranged attacks are quite weak compared to our melee).

    The one thing I'll admit that seems unfair is the CC break on Riftwalk. That part I feel they could either put on a long internal cooldown, or remove altogether (give RB a CC break somewhere else though). And boy, after playing a few days with a 51 champ spec against someone who can kite even mildly well...that's the part that seems unbalanced.
    Cayleb - P50 Warrior [@Seastone]
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    Plane Walker bear_on_the_job's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    The solution, to me, would be to simply take Knockbacks off the DR system.
    Knockbacks already are off the DR system as far as I can tell...or maybe it's just cleric ones. There have been a number of times where I get knocked 3-4 times in a row on the codex rock. They all seem to come from Crushing Wave or Excommunicate though.
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    Ascendant Baramos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear_on_the_job View Post
    Knockbacks already are off the DR system as far as I can tell...or maybe it's just cleric ones. There have been a number of times where I get knocked 3-4 times in a row on the codex rock. They all seem to come from Crushing Wave or Excommunicate though.
    ^ One of the warriors that sits on me and then I die. Play nice.
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  10. #10
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear_on_the_job View Post
    Knockbacks already are off the DR system as far as I can tell...or maybe it's just cleric ones. There have been a number of times where I get knocked 3-4 times in a row on the codex rock. They all seem to come from Crushing Wave or Excommunicate though.
    nah they arnt, if someone goes 26inq and 5 warden get two knockbacks

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Jack Burton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul sky View Post
    Yesterday a 51champ hit me for 1200 1200 1200 1200 cornered beast... then the following attacks did 1800 2200 1400 1800 on my 1250 valor. I'm ok with this as knockbacks etc can be used to effectively reduce the damage and the only reason that kind of damage happened to me is because I had other opponents snaring me.

    But it's saddening that 1 year into the game Trion still lets Riftblade teleport on average every 3-4 seconds with no effective counter. All arguments like 'l2purge' are irrelevant because, assuming equal skill levels, the Warrior can just rebuff after being purged, and his planar blade is now behind 5+ fluff buffs. Or, more likely, planar blade won't ever be purged if he's smart enough to apply Planar Blade last in the respawn area.

    Also inb4noobthatsays: 'keep 20+ meters'. Yesterday a Warrior used thunderous leap then Bull rush to gap close something like 35 meters whilst rooted. Start casting a spell from 30 meters? Rift walk/bull rushed before your cast is 1/3 completed.

    But you know what? I don't care that Warriors can hit like a truck. I don't care if they can teleport to me every 3 seconds. I do care, however, that there is no equivalent ranged opener that will effectively counter this obnoxious gapcloser.

    The solution, to me, would be to simply take Knockbacks off the DR system. Snares off the DR would be imbalanced considering both Rogue and Warrior melee have spammable uncleansable ranged snares whilst Cleric and Mage can only remove these effects like once every 30-60 seconds.

    But just imagine if Flicker/Retreat reset on crit. There would be an outrage...
    TLDR: Trion sucks at PVP.

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    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    @ Jack Burton, I like you

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    Plane Walker bear_on_the_job's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baramos View Post
    ^ One of the warriors that sits on me and then I die. Play nice.
    ^ This is the guy that will get Cabalists nerfed someday. Whenever I'm in Port Scion, I look for that little purple robe first.
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    Plane Walker bear_on_the_job's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormz View Post
    nah they arnt, if someone goes 26inq and 5 warden get two knockbacks
    Yes I realize that build gives you 2 knockbacks by yourself, and DR immunity doesn't happen until after the 2nd hit. For things like stuns, silence, fear, etc., the immunity doesn't kick in until after the 2nd CC, making you immune to the 3rd hit.

    What I'm saying is if you have 2, 3, however many people hitting you with knockbacks, you are not immune after the 2nd hit. It doesn't happen all the time, but there have been times where I get hit by that cleric combo of Crushing Wave/Excommunicate from a single cleric, get knocked back twice, and then another cleric will hit me with Crushing Wave and I will still get pushed.
    Last edited by bear_on_the_job; 04-26-2012 at 06:05 PM.
    Cayleb - P50 Warrior [@Seastone]
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  15. #15
    Plane Touched
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    Not even reading the thread, just the title.
    The problem with Warriors is 5 ticks of over the top aoe in 2.5 seconds combined with gap closer and slow.
    Hurricane whatever from Para may still be over the top, but haven't seen much use of it in a while.

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